SIP thread -- (Sub-Irrigated Planter)

[Tim Fox]

oops here is the video

 

[Tim Fox]

The other day I got fed up with RDWC and hydro in general (after 20+ years). I felt like the Grateful Dead in 1970- after all the high powered experimenting, time to go back to a nice, stripped down organic type grow. I'm hoping for American Beauty quality, or at least Working Man's Dead!

Sorry for the hippie reference, LOL. Anyway @Tim Fox recommended I look into SIPs. After looking at various grow types, I am ready to go this route. I even read all the 91 pages here and a few SIP grow journals.

Right now I have a few plants finishing up in the RDWC (which is really DWC now since the water pump broke). They should be done within a month. I am then removing the system. I will run some DWC buckets next, since I have some nice plants in DWC veg. Along with finishing up the DWC plants, I will slowly add some SIPs until the room is all organic SIPs. I transplanted some bare root cuttings into one gallon organic pots yesterday and they look great today. I'm running all Bodhi gear ATM, with 2 new crosses germinating now.

Of course, I looked at Earthpot and Growbox, as well as some of the DIYs on here. I'm still undecided how to proceed (and I have time to build or do more research). Right now I am leaning toward the Growbox for the larger rez. I may even buy the 6 pack for $200 from the agardenpatch.com site.

So, yea, at this point I am just looking for suggestions. I want to run organic, amended soil with just H2O in the rez. My local shop recommends this:
https://www.greentreegardensupply.com/collections/agricultural-potting-soil/products/greentree-ultimate-blend

I can run 12 plants legally (hence the 6 Growpot idea) and I'd also like to use air stones in the rez. I have a nice Alita pump and I just like the idea of keeping things oxygenated. I know it's not necessary, but I like the idea of the the water roots growing into a H20 saturated environment, like hydro.

Lets see, what else... my space is 7x3, I run about 1000 watts of COB and QB, no CO2. I like variety and can have anywhere from 4-8 strains going at any given time.

Sorry for the overly long post, but I just wanted to introduce myself. I hope to make this thread my go-to for this project and I look forward to joining this SIP revolution

here is a decent video showing the principle behind the auto watering system that uses gravity only, they of course are using global buckets ( 5 gallon sips) , but with the grow box/earthbox you just run the hose into the res in the same fashion

 

[Tstat]

there were lots of amazing grows in this thread

Yea, no doubt. I really want to thank you for all your help and infos. This is gonna be fun. I wish I didn't have to run any more hydro, but I have to be patient. I have some plants in DWC that deserve to be flowered, lol. And it gives me time to veg the new plants in the one gallon pots, and get my SIPs together

 

[Tim Fox]

Yea, no doubt. I really want to thank you for all your help and infos. This is gonna be fun. I wish I didn't have to run any more hydro, but I have to be patient. I have some plants in DWC that deserve to be flowered, lol. And it gives me time to veg the new plants in the one gallon pots, and get my SIPs together

i have moved plants from Hempy buckets and transplanted into soil with great success ( never lost a plant),, yup i tried hempy i hated it,, all that over flow water,, i ended up using a turkey baster to try and suck it up, or i had to bring in a shop vac,, ugh,, but yea you could transplant small plants into soil, but if they are ready for flower,, probably not hahah

 

[meangreengrowinmachine]

@Tstat personally I love the ones I built myself and if you have the tools I think i priced each one out at around 24 bucks per end up having approx. a 4 gallon res. I use MOSLTY only water (I have been known to throw some Cal Mag in there because for some reason plants under cobs LOVE it). but I suppose that 6 pack of earthtainers for 200 is pretty close to that price point and not having to build lol. Welcome to the easiest way of growing ever man! and love the Bodhi gear! I have some Bing going right now and I think I am going to run his shit exclusively from now on... it is just soooo good!
@Tim Fox yeah me and you found a very similar path to SIPS ... turkey baster and all! hahahaha that shit was such a back ache!!

 

[meangreengrowinmachine]

That's reassuring that wetting the soil is going to make it work. But I'm still trying to figure out the limits exactly. I found that if you dangle a fabric in water, it only wicks so high. And if you compress the fabric by squeezing it through a hole for example, it seems to block the water from climbing considerably, which isn't surprising. There is probably some limit to how long your wick can be and if I could I'd like it longer so I can wait longer between refilling.

At what point/length does water stop wicking up and I guess the weight of water then makes it wick downwards? Too hard of a question I fear but any guesses?

I mean I think capillarity really does not have a limit... it wicks all the way to the tops of trees, I am wondering if it is the fabric that you are trying to use that is the limiter. I have never tried to use a wick like that before though so I am unsure how that will work. I think what may be happening in your instance is that the wick material is not able to hold the water well enough to continue to exert enough force against the gravity pulling it down? Again I am not 100% sure on this... maybe try some googling of capillarity and fabric wicks.

 

[meangreengrowinmachine]

You know I've did hempys before and was kind of thinking how similar this is to one. The benefit to this way is being able to bottom water unlike hempys. Also a bigger resivour than a hempy would have. I did coco hempys and got fungus gnats because the coco needed watering so much. Have you ever seen anyone do a living organic soil hempy? I'm curious, I dont think I have.

I saw a thread some time ago where someone use the bottom portion of their pot like a hempy with just a think layer of washed perlite. and then added the soil and plant on top. the idea was to have the organic soil, but try for the water roots of a hempy or hydro. It sounds like an interesting idea... but I like the KISS method of SIPS personally

 

[meangreengrowinmachine]

@Tstat here is my soil mix.. a big thing IMO for organic growing is making your own worm castings. A worm for is SUPER Easy and cheap to make and the "fertilizer" you get from them is a very important key to the soil food web you are trying to build. I have followed a lot of the big time organic guys/gals on this site for a long time and have watched them go through making thit type of teas and that type... nearly all are now to the point of homemade worm castings and molasses thats it for your tea. ... but oh yeah the soil mix lol .... but you may already have this after going through 91 pages lol .... I have since added some gypsum as well ... I need to go find the posts I have about how much though.... anyway hope this helps!

pete moss 7.5 gal
worm castings 3.75 gal
compost 3.75 gal
perlite 7.5 gal
lime 3 cups
glacial rock dust 12 cups
thats my base

then i mix my amendments together as below
kelp meal 6 cups
epsoma tomato tone 3 cups
alfalfa meal 3 cups
neem meal 3 cups
crab meal 3 cups
finely ground egg shells about 3 cups
azomite about a cup

I then take a total of 7.5 cups of the amendment mix and add it to the base and let it sit for at least 4 weeks...

 

[Tim Fox]

@Tstat personally I love the ones I built myself and if you have the tools I think i priced each one out at around 24 bucks per end up having approx. a 4 gallon res. I use MOSLTY only water (I have been known to throw some Cal Mag in there because for some reason plants under cobs LOVE it). but I suppose that 6 pack of earthtainers for 200 is pretty close to that price point and not having to build lol. Welcome to the easiest way of growing ever man! and love the Bodhi gear! I have some Bing going right now and I think I am going to run his shit exclusively from now on... it is just soooo good!
@Tim Fox yeah me and you found a very similar path to SIPS ... turkey baster and all! hahahaha that shit was such a back ache!!

hahah i will never forget the turkey baster days ugh

 

[meangreengrowinmachine]

hahah i will never forget the turkey baster days ugh

same lol I still have my hempy buckets out in my garage somewhere... I recognize them very easily because I had coated them entirely in aluminum tape, so the shine a dull wrinkled silver from in the recesses of my junk pile in there hahahaha

 

[Tim Fox]

same lol I still have my hempy buckets out in my garage somewhere... I recognize them very easily because I had coated them entirely in aluminum tape, so the shine a dull wrinkled silver from in the recesses of my junk pile in there hahahaha

mine are sitting outside in the rain, still have the perolite in them too,, one is cracked,, Heck they would be awesome buckets if they didnt have a hole drilled in the side hahah

 

[Tstat]

but yea you could transplant small plants into soil, but if they are ready for flower,, probably not hahah

I actually chucked some smaller plants, if I had some of the same strain in the cloner to go into soil. The ones I'm referring to are 2-3 feet tall and totally rooted in rocks with huge root systems in the water.

but oh yeah the soil mix lol .... but you may already have this after going through 91 pages lol

Yea, I did see that. I have read a small amount on this type of soil- like in Skunk and shit. I am interested, but think I'll go with bags to start. The stuff from greentreegardensupply.com seems really nice. I used the growers blend with perlite, vermiculite, and coco added for the new plants. I'll go with the Ultimate for the sips. Here is their description:

"GreenTree Ultimate BlendTM is an organic supersoil for container gardening made using our proprietary aging process. It contains a blend of GreenTree CocoTM, sphagnum peat and specially selected organic nutrients, worm castings, humic acids, and GreenTree BiocoreTM, a biochar* that encourages microbiology, improves water retention, and locks in carbon. This soil contains all the nutrients typically needed for a full crop cycle."

6 pack of earthtainers for 200 is pretty close to that price point and not having to build lol.

Yea, that's what I was thinking. I could built them but this would be so easy, and they are the Growbox units with the 4 gallon reservoir. I did build the RDWC based on Current Culture designs, but I think I'm not up for more DIY right now.

oops here is the video

So, some people just add those things and reuse the soil? I might try it on a second crop then dump it, but just like if you don't change your res enough in hydro, you will have problems, no?

Thanks again, guys. This is why RIU is so cool. I decided to make a change, and within a day I found you guys, who have been at this for a couple of years- perfecting and testing so I can just jump right in

 

[raggyb]

I mean I think capillarity really does not have a limit... it wicks all the way to the tops of trees, I am wondering if it is the fabric that you are trying to use that is the limiter. I have never tried to use a wick like that before though so I am unsure how that will work. I think what may be happening in your instance is that the wick material is not able to hold the water well enough to continue to exert enough force against the gravity pulling it down? Again I am not 100% sure on this... maybe try some googling of capillarity and fabric wicks.

yay, thanks for the reply. I'm not sure. I guess in trees or plants it's that turgid effect a few people write about from time to time on rit. spelled turgid? my probably broken interpretation of turgid effect is the plant's leaf transpires water vapor and the roots on up to the leaves are wet so there is a sort of siphon or momentum or reverse pressure effect or whatever you want to call it that keeps the water weeping upwards. I guess that could happen in a sip if the top is evaporating and almost the same thing. It seems just a little different from pure capillary action, which in my guess is driven solely by water tension. Lot of fancy talk by me but I really have no idea what I'm talking about lol. But anyhow you gave me an idea. I'll try to rig something with one fabric strip from water into air, and another from water into wet soil and see if there is a difference. But dont expect a pic cuz I'm photographically challenged.

 

[Tim Fox]

So, some people just add those things and reuse the soil?

the real reason i posted the video was to show you how they set up the Nute Trench,, personally i do not re use soil,, that video is for guys who grow tomatos and veggies in them hahaha,, I dump my soil from grows in my wifes garden and just buy a new bag of soil each time, , now there are some people who re use thier soil, but its a pretty big operation , they dump it, mix things in and keep it "alive" so to speak, doing living soil would bring on to much work for me ( yup i am a lazy old fart who likes things really easy hahah),,, hey i have heard of guys who amend thier soil and run it over and over, not knocking anyone who does that,,
but that Trench, when i have dumped my SIPs out and examine the roots, a third or so are water roots down in the res, then there are roots all over in the bottom of the dirt layer, then there were always these sort of mother type roots going right into that trench, not allot, also i felt the trench was leaching nutes into the damp soil of the sip over time,

 

[meangreengrowinmachine]

the real reason i posted the video was to show you how they set up the Nute Trench,, personally i do not re use soil,, that video is for guys who grow tomatos and veggies in them hahaha,, I dump my soil from grows in my wifes garden and just buy a new bag of soil each time, , now there are some people who re use thier soil, but its a pretty big operation , they dump it, mix things in and keep it "alive" so to speak, doing living soil would bring on to much work for me ( yup i am a lazy old fart who likes things really easy hahah),,, hey i have heard of guys who amend their soil and run it over and over, not knocking anyone who does that,,
but that Trench, when i have dumped my SIPs out and examine the roots, a third or so are water roots down in the res, then there are roots all over in the bottom of the dirt layer, then there were always these sort of mother type roots going right into that trench, not allot, also i felt the trench was leaching nutes into the damp soil of the sip over time,

I re run all my soil and do all that live crap (-; so far so good and i am on I think the third or so run I dont know I have a bunch in cycles now as I re amend and re add bacteria and worms and let the amendments be broken down into usable materials for the plants by the microbes and worms. It is almost like at this point I am growing the SOIL and the plants on the top are the best vestigial thing ever!

 

[meangreengrowinmachine]

yay, thanks for the reply. I'm not sure. I guess in trees or plants it's that turgid effect a few people write about from time to time on rit. spelled turgid? my probably broken interpretation of turgid effect is the plant's leaf transpires water vapor and the roots on up to the leaves are wet so there is a sort of siphon or momentum or reverse pressure effect or whatever you want to call it that keeps the water weeping upwards. I guess that could happen in a sip if the top is evaporating and almost the same thing. It seems just a little different from pure capillary action, which in my guess is driven solely by water tension. Lot of fancy talk by me but I really have no idea what I'm talking about lol. But anyhow you gave me an idea. I'll try to rig something with one fabric strip from water into air, and another from water into wet soil and see if there is a difference. But dont expect a pic cuz I'm photographically challenged.

sounds like an interesting experiment! let me know how it goes!

 

[Tim Fox]

I re run all my soil and do all that live crap (-; so far so good and i am on I think the third or so run I dont know I have a bunch in cycles now as I re amend and re add bacteria and worms and let the amendments be broken down into usable materials for the plants by the microbes and worms. It is almost like at this point I am growing the SOIL and the plants on the top are the best vestigial thing ever!

I really admire you living soil guys it's really an art

 

[meangreengrowinmachine]

I really admire you living soil guys it's really an art

Hey thanks man! I am TRYING to do it correctly and try to be as organic as I can. (-:

 

[Tstat]

that video is for guys who grow tomatos and veggies in them hahaha

I actually said to my wife this morning that I was going to grab the 10 pack of Growboxes for a $90 savings and use a few out on the deck this summer. I’m thinking a couple of tomatoes, some cukes, peppers, and some herbs (basil, dill, etc.). I might do two MMJs out here as well. I do have a regular soil garden, but my wife wants grass there, so maybe these can replace it.

It’s only $300 for 10 and free shipping

 

[meangreengrowinmachine]

I actually said to my wife this morning that I was going to grab the 10 pack of Growboxes for a $90 savings and use a few out on the deck this summer. I’m thinking a couple of tomatoes, some cukes, peppers, and some herbs (basil, dill, etc.). I might do two MMJs out here as well. I do have a regular soil garden, but my wife wants grass there, so maybe these can replace it.

It’s only $300 for 10 and free shipping

Down with the French aristocracy's Idea of wealth!!! (i.e. lawns) lol I had a friend that used an earthbox to grow some cherry tomatoes on his deck and they were amazing and super easy to grow!