Snake Oil, Horticultural Myths, Horticultural Urban Legends, and Persuaders
- Thread starter Uncle Ben
- Start date
boneheadbob
Well-Known Member
I thought this was interesting but it may not belong here.
http://www.cleanairgardening.com/npkexplanation.html
http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm_library/howard.html
http://www.cleanairgardening.com/npkexplanation.html
http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm_library/howard.html
mccumcumber
Well-Known Member
Organics is a shitty word to use. It should be changed to "process that allows bugs to feed your plants." Again, I'm not opposed to chemical ferts, what I am very opposed to are "organic ferts" because that phrase makes no fucking sense. It never will make sense, it's just a gimic to get people to buy their product.
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
Natural, organic....it's all about political correctness.
grapeoptimo
Well-Known Member
Im gonna buy my plants a full line of nutrients, I don't use organic nutes. I recently bought the product X nutrients nute line. I didn't purchase either of the foilar sprays tho. They were 6 dollars a quart at my local hydro store. They are still on sale 60% off. My plants love them. I have two four foot skywalkers that have started to show colors and they are fattening up visibly over night now.
mccumcumber
Well-Known Member
That has to be one of the most accurate, and equally funny, posts I have ever seen on this site.
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
Uh oh....there's that holy buzzword again - <cough> "natural". It's a fuckin' religion for guys like you based on blind faith and feelings. You don't know what's in those "organics" you use. Could be as natural as having heavy metals. With the labeling loopholes the shysters work from as they pull the wool over your eyes with their brand of hawking and lies, could damn well contain anything. Contains worm casting eh, maybe some guano? How much, a cup per ton?
I'll tell you what's "natural". Taking a box of Jack's Classic, plopping a tsp. into a gallon of water and making my plants happy, which makes me happy. At least I have a guarantee of what's in it.
UB
Your jacks classic came out of a factory.
My compost came out of the previous year's biomass. The chicken poo I used came from local chickens. The cow poo I used came from the neighbor's milk farm. I paid real people for real naturally occuring by-products of their work.
Natural isin't a buzz-word. It's what our planet does when us humans are not around.
How would you ever grow plants if you couldn't have your chemicals shipped, and you couldn't source the apparent only thing you know which results in healthy plants.
edit: I'm not advocating FOR the current fad of manufactured/bottled "organic" fertilizers. I'm talking about natural soil amending and using naturally occuring micro-fauna as nutrient factories, rather than pollution spewing energy intensive synthetic urea factories.
My compost came out of the previous year's biomass. The chicken poo I used came from local chickens. The cow poo I used came from the neighbor's milk farm. I paid real people for real naturally occuring by-products of their work.
Natural isin't a buzz-word. It's what our planet does when us humans are not around.
How would you ever grow plants if you couldn't have your chemicals shipped, and you couldn't source the apparent only thing you know which results in healthy plants.
edit: I'm not advocating FOR the current fad of manufactured/bottled "organic" fertilizers. I'm talking about natural soil amending and using naturally occuring micro-fauna as nutrient factories, rather than pollution spewing energy intensive synthetic urea factories.
"edit: I'm not advocating FOR the current fad of manufactured/bottled "organic" fertilizers. I'm talking about natural soil amending and using naturally occuring micro-fauna as nutrient factories, rather than pollution spewing energy intensive synthetic urea factories."
I wonder how many millions and millions would die a horrible death by starvation without using technological advances available in modern agriculture. And yes that includes the latest in chemical pesticides and herbicides and man made fertilizers. If I use Jacks Classic or Dyna pro I know exactly what I'm applying. If I use my own compost I have to pay a lab to find out what's in it and how much. Plus making the compost in the first place ugh.
I wonder how many millions and millions would die a horrible death by starvation without using technological advances available in modern agriculture. And yes that includes the latest in chemical pesticides and herbicides and man made fertilizers. If I use Jacks Classic or Dyna pro I know exactly what I'm applying. If I use my own compost I have to pay a lab to find out what's in it and how much. Plus making the compost in the first place ugh.
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
This posted is in a thread that Daniels started, thought I'd share my thoughts. Discussion is doom and gloom, chem trails, Round-Up, etc: http://riddlem3.com/index.php/topic,1084.msg81993.html#msg81993
One thing we both seek is info not from Monsanto or the alternative peeps. I won't buy into the propaganda from the green, alternative news sources you quoted. If it has a buzzword like "natural" or "organic" attached to it....I won't even bother. One can say it causes this and that, doesn't mean there's a scientific link. Your altering a plant's enzyme response to glyphosate. It's still a debate any way you cut it.
Glyphosphate-based herbicides all work on the same biochemical principle -- they inhibit a specific enzyme that plants need in order to grow. The specific enzyme is called EPSP synthase. Without that enzyme, plants are unable to produce other proteins essential to growth, so they yellow and die over the course of several days or weeks. A majority of plants use this same enzyme, so almost all plants succumb to Roundup.
If you have read the HowStuffWorks article How Cells Work, you know a good bit about DNA and how it produces enzymes. In the same way that many antibiotics gum up enzyme production to kill bacteria, glyphosphate gums up enzymes in plants to kill them. Glyphosphate kills plants like antibiotics kill bacteria.
If you've been following farming news or the genetically modified food debate, you know that glyphosphate-tolerant seeds are now available -- you can buy genetically modified corn, soybeans, etc. that are immune to glyphosphate. These plants produce an enzyme that performs the same function as EPSP synthase but is not inhibited by glyphosphate.
The question of safety is a hard one to answer because there is a lot of polarized and conflicting information. Here are a few things we can probably say with some certainty:
Given the amount of glyphosphate sprayed on the planet every day, it is probably safe to say that glyphosphate is not violently toxic to people or animals. People do not have the same enzymes in their cells that plants do, just like human cells and bacteria differ enough that antibiotics kill bacteria cells but not human cells.
On the other hand, most people react badly to glyphosphate (and other chemicals mixed with it) when ingested or applied to the skin, so you want to avoid any contact with the chemical.
Roundup will kill almost any plant, including aquatic plants, so you want to be sure to avoid spray drift onto other plants or into water. Any pesticide should be applied carefully.
http://www.howstuffworks.com/question357.htm
And I've read in a scientific journal that soil microbial populations actually increase with the proper application of glyphosate. Also, I don't hear of any of those issues you speak of and I live in an ag area that produces hay, berries, grapes, peaches, apples, pecans, honey, and veggies.....commercially, in a big time way. You have to find out what substances the chemicals break down in to and go from there. Our community's water source are aquifers. We are good stewards of our water regarding chemical usage.
So far, I have both hands, eyes, ears, legs, arms, hands, and testicles and they all work pretty damn good. Well, about that last one mentioned.
I hear CCD may be caused by a virus, some say a mite. Then some blame a pesticide I use, imnocloprid found in Admire Pro.
The conspiracy that chem trails is some kind of government test or application of chemicals is just that, a conspiracy.
BTW, I live in a community that has more alternative peeps than Heinz has got pickles and you know what? My alternative friends all have something ailing them all the time and are taking some kind of pricy herb, or going to a chiropractic "doctor" for "relief", doing Quantum Bio-Feedback Therapy at $150 a session. Just stupid voodoo stuff, and these are friends, smart people. They're just listening to a bunch of quacks and believing it while pissing off money on costly "organic and natural" foods. It's a racket.
Wife has RA, a broken femur that has been plaqued with Staph, is on her 8th surgery. Neighbor kept on bugging me with her alternative bullshit - Japanese magnet treatments, light therapy gadgets. Con game stuff that she stands to make a buck off with her pyramid schemes using guilt conman phrases like "well, don't you want her to heal?" Finally had to tell her to shove it, didn't want to hear it anymore, she was unrelentless. I don't do quackery especially when there's money to be made by the hacks and this gal hasn't got a pot to pee in.
UB
One thing we both seek is info not from Monsanto or the alternative peeps. I won't buy into the propaganda from the green, alternative news sources you quoted. If it has a buzzword like "natural" or "organic" attached to it....I won't even bother. One can say it causes this and that, doesn't mean there's a scientific link. Your altering a plant's enzyme response to glyphosate. It's still a debate any way you cut it.
Glyphosphate-based herbicides all work on the same biochemical principle -- they inhibit a specific enzyme that plants need in order to grow. The specific enzyme is called EPSP synthase. Without that enzyme, plants are unable to produce other proteins essential to growth, so they yellow and die over the course of several days or weeks. A majority of plants use this same enzyme, so almost all plants succumb to Roundup.
If you have read the HowStuffWorks article How Cells Work, you know a good bit about DNA and how it produces enzymes. In the same way that many antibiotics gum up enzyme production to kill bacteria, glyphosphate gums up enzymes in plants to kill them. Glyphosphate kills plants like antibiotics kill bacteria.
If you've been following farming news or the genetically modified food debate, you know that glyphosphate-tolerant seeds are now available -- you can buy genetically modified corn, soybeans, etc. that are immune to glyphosphate. These plants produce an enzyme that performs the same function as EPSP synthase but is not inhibited by glyphosphate.
The question of safety is a hard one to answer because there is a lot of polarized and conflicting information. Here are a few things we can probably say with some certainty:
Given the amount of glyphosphate sprayed on the planet every day, it is probably safe to say that glyphosphate is not violently toxic to people or animals. People do not have the same enzymes in their cells that plants do, just like human cells and bacteria differ enough that antibiotics kill bacteria cells but not human cells.
On the other hand, most people react badly to glyphosphate (and other chemicals mixed with it) when ingested or applied to the skin, so you want to avoid any contact with the chemical.
Roundup will kill almost any plant, including aquatic plants, so you want to be sure to avoid spray drift onto other plants or into water. Any pesticide should be applied carefully.
http://www.howstuffworks.com/question357.htm
And I've read in a scientific journal that soil microbial populations actually increase with the proper application of glyphosate. Also, I don't hear of any of those issues you speak of and I live in an ag area that produces hay, berries, grapes, peaches, apples, pecans, honey, and veggies.....commercially, in a big time way. You have to find out what substances the chemicals break down in to and go from there. Our community's water source are aquifers. We are good stewards of our water regarding chemical usage.
So far, I have both hands, eyes, ears, legs, arms, hands, and testicles and they all work pretty damn good. Well, about that last one mentioned.
I hear CCD may be caused by a virus, some say a mite. Then some blame a pesticide I use, imnocloprid found in Admire Pro.
The conspiracy that chem trails is some kind of government test or application of chemicals is just that, a conspiracy.
BTW, I live in a community that has more alternative peeps than Heinz has got pickles and you know what? My alternative friends all have something ailing them all the time and are taking some kind of pricy herb, or going to a chiropractic "doctor" for "relief", doing Quantum Bio-Feedback Therapy at $150 a session. Just stupid voodoo stuff, and these are friends, smart people. They're just listening to a bunch of quacks and believing it while pissing off money on costly "organic and natural" foods. It's a racket.
Wife has RA, a broken femur that has been plaqued with Staph, is on her 8th surgery. Neighbor kept on bugging me with her alternative bullshit - Japanese magnet treatments, light therapy gadgets. Con game stuff that she stands to make a buck off with her pyramid schemes using guilt conman phrases like "well, don't you want her to heal?" Finally had to tell her to shove it, didn't want to hear it anymore, she was unrelentless. I don't do quackery especially when there's money to be made by the hacks and this gal hasn't got a pot to pee in.
UB
silentbob16
Member
This was published in Stemma Magazine:
Superthrive or Superjive
The question regarding the value of Superthrive as a miracle tonic for plants is often bandied about in horticultural circles. Over the years, I had read claims that ranged from, "I put it on my plant, which had never bloomed, and it was in full bloom the next day." to, "It was dead - I put Superthrive on it and the next day it was alive and beautiful, growing better than it ever had before." I decided to find out for myself.
If you look for information on the net, you will probably only find the manufacturers claims and anecdotal observations, both so in want of anything that resembles a control. Though my experiments were far from purely scientific, I tried to keep some loose controls in place so that I could make a fair judgment of its value, based my own observations. Here is what I did, what I found, and the conclusions I made about any value the product Superthrive might hold for me.
On four separate occasions, I took multiple cuttings of plants in four different genera. In each case the group of cuttings were taken from the same individual plant to reduce genetic variance. The plant materials I used were: Ficus benjamina, (a tropical weeping fig) Luna apiculata (Peruvian myrtle), Chaenorrhinum minus (a dwarf snapdragon), and an unknown variety of Coleus. In each instance, I prepared cuttings from the same plant and inserted them in a very fast, sterile soil. The containers containing half of the cuttings were immersed/soaked in a Superthrive solution of approximately 1/2 tsp per gallon of water to the upper soil line. The other half of the cuttings were watered in with water only. In subsequent waterings, I would water the "Superthrive batch" of cuttings with a solution of 10 drops per gallon and the others with only water. The same fertilizer regimen was followed on both groups of cuttings. In all four instances, the cuttings that I used Superthrive on rooted and showed new growth first. For this reason, it follows that they would naturally exhibit better development, though I could see no difference in overall vitality, once rooted. I can also say that a slightly higher percentage of cuttings rooted that were treated with the Superthrive treatment at the outset. I suspect that is directly related to the effects of the auxin in Superthrive hastening initiation of root primordia before potential vascular connections were destroyed by rot causing organisms.
In particular, something I looked for because of my affinity for a compact form in plants was branch (stem) extension. (The writer is a bonsai practitioner.) Though the cuttings treated with Superthrive rooted sooner, they exhibited the same amount of branch extension. In other words, internode length was approximately equal and no difference in leaf size was noted.
As a second part to each of my "experiments", I divided the group of cuttings that had not been treated with Superthrive into two groups. One of the groups remained on the water/fertilizer only program, while the other group was treated to an additional 10 drops of Superthrive in each gallon of fertilizer solution. Again, the fertilizer regimen was the same for both groups. By summers end, I could detect no difference in bio-mass or vitality between the two groups of plants.
Since I replicated the above experiment in four different trials, using four different plant materials, I am quite comfortable in drawing some conclusions as they apply to me and my growing habits or abilities. First, and based on my observations, I have concluded that Superthrive does hold value for me as a rooting aid, or stimulant if you prefer. I regularly soak the soil, usually overnight, of my newly root-pruned and often bare-rooted repots in a solution of 1/2 tsp Superthrive per gallon of water. Second, and also based on my observations, I no longer bother with its use at any time other than at repotting. No evidence was accumulated through the 4 trials to convince me that Superthrive was of any value as a "tonic" for plants with roots that were beyond the initiation or recovery stage.
Interestingly, the first ingredient listed as being beneficial to plants on the Superthrive label is vitamin B-1 (or thiamine). Growing plants are able to synthesize their own vitamin B-1 as do many of the fungi and bacteria having relationships with plant roots, so it's extremely doubtful that vitamin B-1 could be deficient in soils or that a growing plant could exhibit a vitamin B-1 deficiency.
Some will note that I used more of the product than suggested on the container. I wanted to see if any unwanted effects surfaced as well as trying to be sure there was ample opportunity for clear delineation between the groups. I suspect that if a more dilute solution was used, the difference between groups would have been even less clear.
It might be worth noting that since the product contains the growth regulator (hormone) auxin, its overuse can cause defoliation, at least in dicots. The broad-leaf weed killer Weed-B-Gone and the infamous "Agent Orange", a defoliant that saw widespread use in Viet Nam, are little more than synthetic
Superthrive or Superjive
The question regarding the value of Superthrive as a miracle tonic for plants is often bandied about in horticultural circles. Over the years, I had read claims that ranged from, "I put it on my plant, which had never bloomed, and it was in full bloom the next day." to, "It was dead - I put Superthrive on it and the next day it was alive and beautiful, growing better than it ever had before." I decided to find out for myself.
If you look for information on the net, you will probably only find the manufacturers claims and anecdotal observations, both so in want of anything that resembles a control. Though my experiments were far from purely scientific, I tried to keep some loose controls in place so that I could make a fair judgment of its value, based my own observations. Here is what I did, what I found, and the conclusions I made about any value the product Superthrive might hold for me.
On four separate occasions, I took multiple cuttings of plants in four different genera. In each case the group of cuttings were taken from the same individual plant to reduce genetic variance. The plant materials I used were: Ficus benjamina, (a tropical weeping fig) Luna apiculata (Peruvian myrtle), Chaenorrhinum minus (a dwarf snapdragon), and an unknown variety of Coleus. In each instance, I prepared cuttings from the same plant and inserted them in a very fast, sterile soil. The containers containing half of the cuttings were immersed/soaked in a Superthrive solution of approximately 1/2 tsp per gallon of water to the upper soil line. The other half of the cuttings were watered in with water only. In subsequent waterings, I would water the "Superthrive batch" of cuttings with a solution of 10 drops per gallon and the others with only water. The same fertilizer regimen was followed on both groups of cuttings. In all four instances, the cuttings that I used Superthrive on rooted and showed new growth first. For this reason, it follows that they would naturally exhibit better development, though I could see no difference in overall vitality, once rooted. I can also say that a slightly higher percentage of cuttings rooted that were treated with the Superthrive treatment at the outset. I suspect that is directly related to the effects of the auxin in Superthrive hastening initiation of root primordia before potential vascular connections were destroyed by rot causing organisms.
In particular, something I looked for because of my affinity for a compact form in plants was branch (stem) extension. (The writer is a bonsai practitioner.) Though the cuttings treated with Superthrive rooted sooner, they exhibited the same amount of branch extension. In other words, internode length was approximately equal and no difference in leaf size was noted.
As a second part to each of my "experiments", I divided the group of cuttings that had not been treated with Superthrive into two groups. One of the groups remained on the water/fertilizer only program, while the other group was treated to an additional 10 drops of Superthrive in each gallon of fertilizer solution. Again, the fertilizer regimen was the same for both groups. By summers end, I could detect no difference in bio-mass or vitality between the two groups of plants.
Since I replicated the above experiment in four different trials, using four different plant materials, I am quite comfortable in drawing some conclusions as they apply to me and my growing habits or abilities. First, and based on my observations, I have concluded that Superthrive does hold value for me as a rooting aid, or stimulant if you prefer. I regularly soak the soil, usually overnight, of my newly root-pruned and often bare-rooted repots in a solution of 1/2 tsp Superthrive per gallon of water. Second, and also based on my observations, I no longer bother with its use at any time other than at repotting. No evidence was accumulated through the 4 trials to convince me that Superthrive was of any value as a "tonic" for plants with roots that were beyond the initiation or recovery stage.
Interestingly, the first ingredient listed as being beneficial to plants on the Superthrive label is vitamin B-1 (or thiamine). Growing plants are able to synthesize their own vitamin B-1 as do many of the fungi and bacteria having relationships with plant roots, so it's extremely doubtful that vitamin B-1 could be deficient in soils or that a growing plant could exhibit a vitamin B-1 deficiency.
Some will note that I used more of the product than suggested on the container. I wanted to see if any unwanted effects surfaced as well as trying to be sure there was ample opportunity for clear delineation between the groups. I suspect that if a more dilute solution was used, the difference between groups would have been even less clear.
It might be worth noting that since the product contains the growth regulator (hormone) auxin, its overuse can cause defoliation, at least in dicots. The broad-leaf weed killer Weed-B-Gone and the infamous "Agent Orange", a defoliant that saw widespread use in Viet Nam, are little more than synthetic
beans davis
Well-Known Member
Hey UB,awhile back i was cruising forums to try and find out why i was having trouble with my grows.I was uesing AN nutes and had talked to big mike several times on the phone and he asured me i had the right nutes.Dr. degreed scientist studying cannabis had come up with these formulas,my degree is in repiratory therapy what do i know about npk?At that time nothing.I did what he said and my plants looked like shit.
I ran across this thread and it made sence to me so i went and bought some Dyna-Gro.I came back and posted what i bought and asked you how i should use them and your ass told me to go read mel franks book.Not the answer i was looking for,it kinda fckn pissed me off!
I've spent weeks reading everything i could about npk ratios and plants(not just mj).Now i totally understand why my plants looked the way they did.
I just wanted to come on here and say THANK YOU THANKYOU THANKYOU for making me get off my lazy ass and learn this shit!If you would have told me how to use those nutes my plants would have looked good but i would'nt have known why.I did not understand what role n p&k played in plant development.
I think 80% of people on mj forums have been scammed(like me)by nute companies & fly by night pollen chuckers and they refuse to believe it.
I'm old school and i'll stick with old school.
Thanks to HB & BT TOO.
I ran across this thread and it made sence to me so i went and bought some Dyna-Gro.I came back and posted what i bought and asked you how i should use them and your ass told me to go read mel franks book.Not the answer i was looking for,it kinda fckn pissed me off!
I've spent weeks reading everything i could about npk ratios and plants(not just mj).Now i totally understand why my plants looked the way they did.
I just wanted to come on here and say THANK YOU THANKYOU THANKYOU for making me get off my lazy ass and learn this shit!If you would have told me how to use those nutes my plants would have looked good but i would'nt have known why.I did not understand what role n p&k played in plant development.
I think 80% of people on mj forums have been scammed(like me)by nute companies & fly by night pollen chuckers and they refuse to believe it.
I'm old school and i'll stick with old school.
Thanks to HB & BT TOO.
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
Live and learn, the hard way. Happy you finally see the light.
I quit teaching the basics years ago. I help by teaching tweeks, and there's an overlap regarding the basics at times. FWIW, I have a forum entitled Hanging with Uncle Ben, Going Old School and Never Looking Back: http://riddlem3.com/index.php/board,47.0.html
beans davis
Well-Known Member
UB my handle on riddle is texasjack,i've read most of your stuff over there.I'ts fun to mess around on rui ,last night i was reading the thread on lollipopping your to funny man,i was laffin my ass off.
I've run sog before and had good luck with it.I spent a lot of time in amsterdam in 88-89 i use to hang out at the sssc and became friends with the owner.He showed me a grow and they were useing what he called the plantlet method and said this is what the growers were doing in the dam.
None of the plants were lollipopped tho.I brought seeds back to cali. and passed a lot around.I use to call sssc and order seeds 1 time i ordered 3 strains and 2 were sent from the dam & the nl#5 was mailed to me from arizona.They had to have people working with them in the states.
Things were much different in the dam then.
When i need facts with no bullshit i go to riddle.
Unlike you i didn't start growing untill 88.Say you're shanti i would be howard marks.We had an import export buisness in Miguel Aleman in 70s & early 80s.You grew i smuggled.
Things were getting too hot so i joined the navy in 83.Ever smoked any weed from the Philipines?I'ts like fruity thia only stronger.
Thanks for the help
Peace Bro
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
Hi Texasjack. Yep, you can cut thru the hype at Riddle's. Never smoked any Phillipine, at least I don't think I did.
Have you heard the song "Tree Top Flyer" by Steven Stills? He's still got it and it's a great song.
beans davis
Well-Known Member
Badass song UB Im suprised i haven't heard it especially b/c of the subject matter.
I can relate only we used 18 wheelers & trucks with trailers coming from the valley, we unloaded in the middle of the night at the wholesale produce warehouse in Houston,then sending it out in produce trucks.It was wide open then.
Stills is under rated guitar player imo.He can play anything.I saw CS&N twice and Stills with Dylan & a bunch of other rock allstars at the Astrodome on Dylans night of the hurricane tour.
This is the music i grew up on.Some others CSN&Y, Ten Years After, Johnny Winter,Hendrix,Joplin(from my home town)The Band,The Allman Bros,The Doors,CCR ,Cream & The Dead just to name a few.
I was living in L.A. when the big hair bands came out in the 80s and i went straight blues,always loved the blues.
Peace to you my friend and thanks for the help
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
Great bands. David Gilmour has an unreal concert on HD NET with Crosby and Nash singing harmonies on some tunes. Recorded at Albert Hall. Buffalo Springfield was on of my faves of which CSNY evolved from. The canned marketed hip hop crap you hear in every mall and restaurant and radio station now is pure rubbish.
Saw Hendrix, Cream, Led Zeppelin, Frank Zappa, etc. in the late 60's & 70's. Used to field harvest hundreds of peyote buttons near Rio Grande City. Can't do it any more because of the checkpoints. Don't know if I'd want to either, not now. My first peyote trip was eating 7 buttons within an hour. Holy shit!
Tio Bendejo
beans davis
Well-Known Member
MY friends mother in Roma had a license to sell peyote to the indians,their land was covered with peyote.
She sold them to me for $50 a tow sack full.
Not as intense as acid but a good trip after you puke.I ate to many also my 1st time,i could'nt get off the sidewalk in front of my apartment.
The cartels have a bloody mess going on down there.
My friend from Miguel Aleman wont even sleep in his house anymore.He stays on this side now.
The check point is hard to get thru now,even led lined welded in the frames.They got all these frikin xray machines and shit now.
It can still be done,drivers are hard to find and the goin rate now is $100 per lb for the driver.
I havent heard of anyone speak of peyote in years.No $ to be made off peyote.I could'nt give it away when i had it.
I see all kinds of hybrids coming out of Mex now,they call all of it popcorn.Probably heard some gringo call it this, same with acapulco gold never heard a mex use this name only in states.In mex they call it guerreran gold or green depending on color.
I can still get these and the pelirrojo Oaxacan but is difficult and takes time.
The cartels are forcing the farmers to grow these hybrids,quicker & more yield= more $.
Nice to meet someone on here thats not in their teens and has no clue.MJ comunity is a mess,everbody trying to cut each others throat to make a buck.
Peace to you & yours my friend