Soaring Health Insurance Profits

Mr.KushMan

Mr.KushMan

Well-Known Member
You are lending credence to what I am saying.

In times of economic down turn people can still survive. The technology was there for your great-grand-mother to produce and to help, just because no money existed doesn't mean no form of sustenance was available. Does this mean that I am vouching for people to just collect money? NO. Rather people who need money or health care, or food and water have it available to them. Which is not the case around the world, 1/3 people don't have clean drinking water.

This form of capital gain is what causes this, companies that have to grow in size and profit every single year to remain sustainable. It can't provide food and water through out the world because people are forced to work to feed and clothe themselves. The technology and resources are there but money still lags, if anything it is mass amounts of money that allow people to not work. If there weren't no CEO and board of directors to pay huge sums to, then that extra effort and supply could go to the people that need it or require it.

You should see that its perpetually giving to the people on the economic top, and the people at the bottom are continuously feeding into the treadmill.

Peace
 
kendothegreenwizard

kendothegreenwizard

Active Member
Mr.KushMan said:
You are lending credence to what I am saying.

In times of economic down turn people can still survive. The technology was there for your great-grand-mother to produce and to help, just because no money existed doesn't mean no form of sustenance was available. Does this mean that I am vouching for people to just collect money? NO. Rather people who need money or health care, or food and water have it available to them. Which is not the case around the world, 1/3 people don't have clean drinking water.

This form of capital gain is what causes this, companies that have to grow in size and profit every single year to remain sustainable. It can't provide food and water through out the world because people are forced to work to feed and clothe themselves. The technology and resources are there but money still lags, if anything it is mass amounts of money that allow people to not work. If there weren't no CEO and board of directors to pay huge sums to, then that extra effort and supply could go to the people that need it or require it.

You should see that its perpetually giving to the people on the economic top, and the people at the bottom are continuously feeding into the treadmill.

Peace
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Really what you are advocating is an end to capitalism worldwide. That is in fact a beautiful dream. Unrealistic, but beautiful nonetheless.
 
sonar

sonar

Well-Known Member
Patrick Bateman said:
Q1 Profits were up on average 31% in 2010 as compared to 2009 (which were already record profits) for 5 Major Insurance Companies - Humana, WellPoint, Aetna, UnitedHealth, and Cigna.

Premiums rose more quickly than the cost of care and a smaller portion of each dollar earned was spent on actual health services.

To all:

Please weigh in on duty to shareholders vs. duty to morality
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WRONG. Do you homework. The healthcare industry has one of the lowest profit margins in business. I think they average about 3%. Meaning if a company brings in 100 million a year, only 3 million of that is profit. That is lower than almost any other business in the country. Hell, university make somewhere near 20%! The only reason health care makes money is because of how big of a business it is.
 
Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman

Active Member
sonar said:
WRONG. Do you homework. The healthcare industry has one of the lowest profit margins in business. I think they average about 3%. Meaning if a company brings in 100 million a year, only 3 million of that is profit. That is lower than almost any other business in the country. Hell, university make somewhere near 20%! The only reason health care makes money is because of how big of a business it is.
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Please show where in my OP that I claimed anything about profit margin

You should read then re read to ensure comprehension before you try and see things which do not exist

I believe health care is where the free market falls short

In order to maintain profitability, health insurers are forced into engaging in what I view as immoral practices

Telling a person with a potentially life threatening illness that they will no longer receive funding for care because the costs outweigh the benefits from the insurer's monetary perspective is wrong

This is where I find myself straying from classical liberalism in that material equality is necessary to ensure equal protection of health

I acknowledge that there will always be those in lower social standings in a free market society, however these people should not be at a disadvantage because of choices they have made (take lower paying jobs), or circumstances which have been forced upon them (disabilities)

In the case of life and death, legislation is necessary in order to level the playing field for insurers

Creating a climate in which one can maintain profitability (although perhaps not as much as previously, which is not necessarily a bad thing) while providing the service which it is meant to provide

The bill which was passed was immensely watered down and for that reason I see it as a small step in progress towards a more fair health care system, but nothing more.
 
N

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
I know most people think that eating food with lots of fat in it is bad, but in reality its not unless its all polyunsaturated. If you eat nothing but fat and protein you will lose alot of weight until your body finds equilibrium. Start eating more and more carbs and sugars and you will become fatter. Its the carbs/sugars that make you fat, not the fat. The human body NEEDS fat to regulate its functions. Fast food has lots of carbs and sugars and sodium, the fat is the least of your worries.
 
kendothegreenwizard

kendothegreenwizard

Active Member
Patrick Bateman said:
Please show where in my OP that I claimed anything about profit margin

You should read then re read to ensure comprehension before you try and see things which do not exist

.
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Right here is where I do believe you posted that profits were 31% higher.

Q1 Profits were up on average 31% in 2010 as compared to 2009 (which were already record profits) for 5 Major Insurance Companies - Humana, WellPoint, Aetna, UnitedHealth, and Cigna.
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
kendothegreenwizard said:
Right here is where I do believe you posted that profits were 31% higher.

Q1 Profits were up on average 31% in 2010 as compared to 2009 (which were already record profits) for 5 Major Insurance Companies - Humana, WellPoint, Aetna, UnitedHealth, and Cigna.
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Profits were up, I believe that means if they were 3%, after the "UP", they would be 3.9%. I believe the language is clear.
 
sonar

sonar

Well-Known Member
Patrick Bateman said:
Please show where in my OP that I claimed anything about profit margin

You should read then re read to ensure comprehension before you try and see things which do not exist
Click to expand...
Patrick Bateman said:
Q1 Profits were up on average 31% in 2010 as compared to 2009 (which were already record profits) for 5 Major Insurance Companies - Humana, WellPoint, Aetna, UnitedHealth, and Cigna.
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The whole premise of your arguement, as I see it, is to villify insurance companies. I agree with you 100% it is wrong for them to cut coverage to someone who might have been paying in for 10 or 20 years without any health problems who suddenly falls ill. But this is America, as "evil" as you think they may be they have a right to make a profit.

The whole system is flawed, but I don't think that means the government should come in and take over. They can't even run the post office without it going bankrupt. The government's job is to create a environment where profit is possible while still providing quality coverage. We have doctors so worried about getting sued, that if someone comes in with a headache they are getting every test in the book just so the doctor can cover his ass. I don't know about you, but I'd much rather have my doctor focused on me rather than "covering his bases." That's not the insurance companies fault, it's the government's fault for handing out 8 figure malpractice claims!

Capitalism may not be perfect, but I firmly believe it is the best system we have.
 
P

Parker

Well-Known Member
kendothegreenwizard said:
are you kidding me?!?
you really are seriously trying to place the blame on others by implying it is cheaper to eat the dollar menu at mcdogalds or taco smells.

Try blaming the fat of society on those who consume the fat because they are too lazy, too gluttonous or don't care enough to feed themselves or thier families a wholesome diet. I am busy as hell and find the time and make the effort to do so. .
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agreed it is cheaper to cook as well as a lot healthier.
 
P

Parker

Well-Known Member
ancap said:
I think you are on the right track, but I don't think the problems lie in just one regulation. Repealing specific laws and regulations to solve these problems is like clipping the top inch off a weed without paying any attention to the growing environment and root structure, and expecting the weed not to grow back. Cronyism is at the roots, the government is the soil.
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Yea There are good and bad regulations. These tools make too many regulations in favor of their corporate buddies is the problem.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
ancap said:
I think you are on the right track, but I don't think the problems lie in just one regulation. Repealing specific laws and regulations to solve these problems is like clipping the top inch off a weed without paying any attention to the growing environment and root structure, and expecting the weed not to grow back. Cronyism is at the roots, the government is the soil.
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Welcome back. Your commentary here is spot on, as usual.
 
Mr.KushMan

Mr.KushMan

Well-Known Member
Fascism is defined as "Fascists seek to organize a nation on corporatist perspectives, values, and systems such as the political system and the economy...", that a nation is a "community that requires strong leadership, singular collective identity, and the will and ability to commit violence and wage war in order to keep the nation strong." "Fascists present their ideology as that of an economically trans-class movement that promotes ending economic class conflict to secure national solidarity. They believe that economic classes are not capable of properly governing a nation, and that a merit-based aristocracy of experienced military persons must rule through regimenting a nation's forces of production and securing the nation's independence."

Are they there yet?

Peace
 
sonar

sonar

Well-Known Member
Mr.KushMan said:
Fascism is defined as "Fascists seek to organize a nation on corporatist perspectives, values, and systems such as the political system and the economy...", that a nation is a "community that requires strong leadership, singular collective identity, and the will and ability to commit violence and wage war in order to keep the nation strong." "Fascists present their ideology as that of an economically trans-class movement that promotes ending economic class conflict to secure national solidarity. They believe that economic classes are not capable of properly governing a nation, and that a merit-based aristocracy of experienced military persons must rule through regimenting a nation's forces of production and securing the nation's independence."

Are they there yet?

Peace
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Nope, I'd say a little closer to socialism than fascism.
 
Mr.KushMan

Mr.KushMan

Well-Known Member
Patriot act? Torture camps? Unprovoked wars? Wars based solely on profits? Bush's incessant need to be seen in battle attire, much like fascist and socialist dictators of the past(Che Guavera, Fidel Castro, Adolf Hitler, Kim Jong Il, Vladimir Lenin, ect. ect.)? How about the indefinite subsidies and no bid contracts received by most corporations involved in the war, Monsanto, Haliburton, Blackwater, ect. ect.? The perpetual use of similar personalities in media and public office? The use of campaign donations, now can't be limited, to sway public and political attitudes?

I bet you didn't realize that Prescott Bush was president of Union Banking Corporation which was seized for colluding with the enemy during WWII, a nazi money laundering operation that held over $3 million. That he was an active member in the Youth Nazi movement of America before the Nazi's invaded Poland. "Keep that in mind when considering the Bush families political and moral dispositions."
How about J.P. Morgan's- US Standard Oil having sold fuel to the german company IG Farben who manufactured most of Hitlers explosives and poisons used in the concentration camps. Or that IBM invented the machine that numbered the jews and calculated how long they could be worked before being useless and discarded. A culture of deep and sinister motives is running your country and the world.

Peace
 
M

Merowe

Well-Known Member
Mr.KushMan said:
Fascism is defined as "Fascists seek to organize a nation on corporatist perspectives, values, and systems such as the political system and the economy...", that a nation is a "community that requires strong leadership, singular collective identity, and the will and ability to commit violence and wage war in order to keep the nation strong." "Fascists present their ideology as that of an economically trans-class movement that promotes ending economic class conflict to secure national solidarity. They believe that economic classes are not capable of properly governing a nation, and that a merit-based aristocracy of experienced military persons must rule through regimenting a nation's forces of production and securing the nation's independence."
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Wow, one of the better definitions of the term I've seen around, I think. Can we get a source?
 
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