soil or hydro?

IVotedForChange said:

well found a hydro store. found 2 actually.. so one gallon pots gets you a 3 ft. lollipop? gotcha w/ no netpots, dont use them cause of the roots, right? just use a 1 gallon pot that has a hole in the bottom to allow water to fill and drain?

Click to expand...

Yup you got it...

and remember, if you use RW, do not flood the cubes...

the RW should never ever be wet, only damp... or rot and destruction will follow...

ok so i think that little diagram in your last post also answered another question... once the clones have rooted in the rockwool, they stay in the rockwool as they are put in the hydroton?

IVotedForChange said:

ok so i think that little diagram in your last post also answered another question... once the clones have rooted in the rockwool, they stay in the rockwool as they are put in the hydroton?

Click to expand...

Yeah.. I have tried removing roots from RW brefore (in a DWC setup) and it was a semi disaster...

The plant survived, but got stunted and I did not get 100% of the RW out, so I had rot issues...

When you move the clones in the cubes to the pots with hydroton, make sure to keep the RW ABOVE the flood line... which may require that you hand water the clones until the roots reach the flood level...

I am using the same cubes as AL, 4g dry 25-30g damp and about 35g MAX for clone and cube... but that depends on the size clone you are using...

No guessing put them on a scale every day and they will be perfect...

I tried RW before and didn't like it... I am trying again because I could not establish consistency with the Rapid Rooter plugs...

so where are you in all this... building? planting? what's going on... and are you going to throw us a bone eventually?!?!..lol... I mean, you should take ppictures of the beginning, you will like them later...

Cheers....

haha well where i am in all this is i have a room built in my attic. it is framed up from 1x2s, w/ big pieces of cardboard (appliance boxes, tv boxes) as exterior and interior siding. all seems in the cardboard siding (inside ond out) were sealed using... you guessed it, packing tape. what better way to tape up your seems in your cardboard than with USPS approved shipping tape. since the 1x2s are really more like 3/4 x 1 3/4, i have 1 3/4'' air insulation all around the room. i also framed up a spot towards the roof of the room for a small window unit a/c for summer time. i almost turned it on up there yesterday, it was 70* outside and it was 90* in the room. but haha its supposed to be 35 and snow here on saturday.i have heat up there, the room stays nice and toasty (about 70-76) when the attic temp our outside air temp is 20s-30s. this is with the heater on low, pulling 600 watts. also between the exterior roof of my room and in between the ceiling joists of the house i have put rolled insulation. the room is roughly 7'x14'.

as the grow goes.. (hold on a second i gotta hit this shit) (cough cough) i am taking my seeds out of 9 oz cups and into 32 oz containers in soil. i have realized that i have a problem having so many seedlings (around 260), so whilst i upgrade pot size i am downgrading crop size. i have noticed that some of the seedlings appear to be "weaker" than some of the others. some of these seedlings will amaze you, while some will depress you. so after we get all into the 32 oz pots, there will be roughly 120 seedlings remaining. this is alot easier to handle than 260, wouldnt you think? just like american idol, the best move on.

now, i have run into another question for you, if you please. with some adequate ferts., will these 32 oz. containers be large enough to sustain these plants through about another 6 wks.? you know, for them to get old enough to sex and take cuttings from? because if so, the bus stops here for soil. everything will be rockwool and hydroton (how reusable is hydroton?) in an ebb and flow system with 4 trays large enough to hold 20-1 gallon pots pots producing every 2 weeks.

i didnt even find this site until after i sprouted seed, other info was gained by other websites, but it was all kinda general and generic. i cant thank you enough for your input, and people like you who have posted good info in the forums.

i really wish i would have found it before hand though, i would have never touched soil.

have you ever tried the method of cloning that is shown on here where the guy just basically takes a cut and puts it in a cup of water, puts it in indirect sunlight, and leaves it there until it sprouts roots?

could just drill a hole in side of pot 1/2'' below rockwool or fix overflow drain in tray to 1/2'' below the level of rockwool...?

80 veg/flower? soil is gonna be a pain in your ass. And your new to growing? Know how to tell if they need water? I'm not one to say you have no business doing this size of a grow. So I say it is doable, but don't get ahead of yourself. Take some time to figure this out. 90+ will be a disaster. Go with hydro, multi-flo buckets are a life saver. dial it in and let it do the work. How are you gonna get water up there? Cardboard? it might work, I just can't see it. How are you gonna exhaust? you could push some air out of the vents in the attic, careful how you do that so methane won't come back into the room. not much of a problem. You could tap into an a/c duct up there, but no way to control it. what about power? Attics are a great place. Fairly safe. You just have more work on the setup.

yeah i am not prepared for the heat of summer yet, but trust me that room is sealed up tight.on cold days its freezing up there but when you open the door you can just feel the warm air rush out. and ive realized a couple days ago that a soil grow on this scale would be impossible. i'm just gonna run something like 8-10 mothers, take about 20-25 clones every other week.

water is easy, run a garden hose about 10 feet.i have a charcoal air filter, an attic vent fan that i picked up at a garage sale for 10 bucks, and on the other side of the long end is a vent that has those flaps that stay closed but open up when air pressure is applied. another reason i know my room is sealed up tight is that when my attic fan kicks on, it takes only a couple seconds for the flaps in the vent to open up. then when you go to open the door, i mean just crack it open less than an inch, the room loses its pressure and the vent flaps close. well i have the attic fans thermostat set on 85*. much lower than that and it would be on all the time. i think it kicked on a couple times today. but haha the funny thing is i'll probably have to turn the heat on up there tonight. and after i get the window unit a/c installed up there, my plan is to duct its exhause about 20-25 feet out the dryer vent.

oh and as for the cardboard, i went with it because it actually has a pretty high r-factor. and if you dumpster dive long enough you can find all you need. and anything else you need. powers no biggie i just tapped into the breaker that was least used in the house and ran some 12-3 up the wall and made 2 seperate 4 recepticle outlets in the room. this room is sealed up tight, wired up, vented, w/ heating and soon to be air. see i can do all this shit and make it work perfect, now all i gotta do is grow the weed.

i'm gonna have my hydro system set up in about 3 weeks. and does anyone know if most 5 1/2 '' pots are 1 gal. in volume?

IVotedForChange said:

haha well where i am in all this is i have a room built in my attic. it is framed up from 1x2s, w/ big pieces of cardboard (appliance boxes, tv boxes) as exterior and interior siding. all seems in the cardboard siding (inside ond out) were sealed using... you guessed it, packing tape. what better way to tape up your seems in your cardboard than with USPS approved shipping tape. since the 1x2s are really more like 3/4 x 1 3/4, i have 1 3/4'' air insulation all around the room. i also framed up a spot towards the roof of the room for a small window unit a/c for summer time. i almost turned it on up there yesterday, it was 70* outside and it was 90* in the room. but haha its supposed to be 35 and snow here on saturday.i have heat up there, the room stays nice and toasty (about 70-76) when the attic temp our outside air temp is 20s-30s. this is with the heater on low, pulling 600 watts. also between the exterior roof of my room and in between the ceiling joists of the house i have put rolled insulation. the room is roughly 7'x14'.

Click to expand...

IVotedForChange said:

as the grow goes.. (hold on a second i gotta hit this shit) (cough cough) i am taking my seeds out of 9 oz cups and into 32 oz containers in soil. i have realized that i have a problem having so many seedlings (around 260), so whilst i upgrade pot size i am downgrading crop size. i have noticed that some of the seedlings appear to be "weaker" than some of the others. some of these seedlings will amaze you, while some will depress you. so after we get all into the 32 oz pots, there will be roughly 120 seedlings remaining. this is alot easier to handle than 260, wouldnt you think? just like american idol, the best move on.

Click to expand...

Be aware that MALES often look impressive and seem to be the best...

You are taking a huge gamble in choosing which plants to keep without knowing sex...

And uh.... you only needed enough seeds to produce ONE female plant...

But I guess you can serve cannabis sprout salad... lol..

IVotedForChange said:

now, i have run into another question for you, if you please. with some adequate ferts., will these 32 oz. containers be large enough to sustain these plants through about another 6 wks.? you know, for them to get old enough to sex and take cuttings from? because if so, the bus stops here for soil. everything will be rockwool and hydroton (how reusable is hydroton?) in an ebb and flow system with 4 trays large enough to hold 20-1 gallon pots pots producing every 2 weeks.

Click to expand...

The half gallon pots should be fine... I have seen some nice plants in ridiculously small pots...

Hydroton is reusable, but you must wash it, and you can never get 100% of the root material off of it, so it is very very important to use H2O2 (with non organic nutes), to avoid cross contamination of crops...

IVotedForChange said:

i didnt even find this site until after i sprouted seed, other info was gained by other websites, but it was all kinda general and generic. i cant thank you enough for your input, and people like you who have posted good info in the forums.

Click to expand...

You are welcome, others helped me... so it is only fair...

IVotedForChange said:

i really wish i would have found it before hand though, i would have never touched soil.

Click to expand...

It's good to get your hands dirty once in a while, but always outside...

Soil is forbidden in my op... not taking any chances with bugs...

IVotedForChange said:

have you ever tried the method of cloning that is shown on here where the guy just basically takes a cut and puts it in a cup of water, puts it in indirect sunlight, and leaves it there until it sprouts roots?

Click to expand...

I have cloned in many diff ways... wick, aero, water, dirt, RW, RR, foam, even a wet shoe lace once...lol...

IVotedForChange said:

could just drill a hole in side of pot 1/2'' below rockwool or fix overflow drain in tray to 1/2'' below the level of rockwool...?

Click to expand...

Fit the RW cube just like it shows here... and adjust the flood level with the overflow pipe...

IVotedForChange said:

yeah i am not prepared for the heat of summer yet, but trust me that room is sealed up tight.on cold days its freezing up there but when you open the door you can just feel the warm air rush out. and ive realized a couple days ago that a soil grow on this scale would be impossible. i'm just gonna run something like 8-10 mothers, take about 20-25 clones every other week.

water is easy, run a garden hose about 10 feet.i have a charcoal air filter, an attic vent fan that i picked up at a garage sale for 10 bucks, and on the other side of the long end is a vent that has those flaps that stay closed but open up when air pressure is applied. another reason i know my room is sealed up tight is that when my attic fan kicks on, it takes only a couple seconds for the flaps in the vent to open up. then when you go to open the door, i mean just crack it open less than an inch, the room loses its pressure and the vent flaps close. well i have the attic fans thermostat set on 85*. much lower than that and it would be on all the time. i think it kicked on a couple times today. but haha the funny thing is i'll probably have to turn the heat on up there tonight. and after i get the window unit a/c installed up there, my plan is to duct its exhause about 20-25 feet out the dryer vent.

oh and as for the cardboard, i went with it because it actually has a pretty high r-factor. and if you dumpster dive long enough you can find all you need. and anything else you need. powers no biggie i just tapped into the breaker that was least used in the house and ran some 12-3 up the wall and made 2 seperate 4 recepticle outlets in the room. this room is sealed up tight, wired up, vented, w/ heating and soon to be air. see i can do all this shit and make it work perfect, now all i gotta do is grow the weed.

i'm gonna have my hydro system set up in about 3 weeks. and does anyone know if most 5 1/2 '' pots are 1 gal. in volume?

Click to expand...

Sounds like you have it figured out... except for the cardboard...

You are talking about a pound every 2 weeks...

Go out and spen a buck to make your op safeR...

GypsyBush said:

I have cloned in many diff ways... wick, aero, water, dirt, RW, RR, foam, even a wet shoe lace once...lol...

Click to expand...

LOL ok gota write that down the shoe lace is funny.. The wierdest cloneing I have seen I just cant remember the name of but basicly its cloneing a plant before you cut it off the mother such as done for bonzi and hard to clone plants. Where you wound the plant by cutting it at a 45 degree angle but you dont cut it all the way through. You then apply rooting gell and place a toothpick in the wound to hold it open a bit. you then wrap and tie that cut closed add a wetted medium (it was some kind of moss strands they were useing they looked alot like the same stuff my ladybugs were shiped to me in) Then thats wraped in a wet paper towel and then all of that is sealed up in a plastic bag.

I just thought it was rather wierd to see little plastic baggys arround a bundle of wet straw type crap with roots poping out of it all.

Ok so you ask why? Limited by law how many plants you can have growing? Where as rooting clones while they are still attached and growing on the mother plant are considered 1 plant by the law.

damn, you are absolutely right about the mold ond flashpoing of the cardboard. i was just looking at it as insulative, and with the sterility issues... i have sterilized everything that i use... the pots, all my little digging tools, i even sterlize my squirt bottles about every day... but the potential moldy cardboard situation flew right under the radar... i feel like an idiot now!!

as for the little weeds i weeded out... i didnt just keep the biggest ones and throw the smaller ones away.. i kept the ones that looked healthiest; some of them looked like they had marijuana down syndrome. i just kept the healthy ones, big and small.

thinking about abandoning the attic effort and making a garage effort... can use scrap 1x2 from the attic... can use it all except the cardboard.

nice pics, nice plants. i would post some pics but i'm a poor boy from the sticks. my digital camera was bought for me when i graduated high school in 2000. i could take pictures and upload them on here but i could probably mush a pack of coyotes up to where you live quicker. HAHA! but in all seriousness if i can find my camera and its accessories then i can get you a pic(s).

hey gypsy, why dont you write us a tutorial about cloning in shoelaces??? now i bet i can find some shoelaces in a dumpster!!! that was really funny, but as they say, necessity is the mother of invention... hey you didnt have to take the shoelaces off your shoes and walk home barefoot did you?

Syriuslydelyrius said:

LOL ok gota write that down the shoe lace is funny..

Click to expand...

If a plant needs water and you give it water, the plant really doesn't care HOW you give it the water...

It's just happy to have it...

Syriuslydelyrius said:

The wierdest cloneing I have seen I just cant remember the name of but basicly its cloneing a plant before you cut it off the mother

Click to expand...

Yeah..! It's called air layering...

And it works, but it's just easier to clone... really..

Air layering is very useful in taking cuttings from very hard to clone plants or very woody stems...

More of a Tree thing.. but it can be done...

Many vines do it naturally, growing extra roots at points of contact with the surface...

But it's just easier to clone Cannabis...

IVotedForChange said:

damn, you are absolutely right about the mold ond flashpoing of the cardboard. i was just looking at it as insulative, and with the sterility issues... i have sterilized everything that i use... the pots, all my little digging tools, i even sterlize my squirt bottles about every day... but the potential moldy cardboard situation flew right under the radar... i feel like an idiot now!!

Click to expand...

Don't feel like an idiot, you are not...

You though of everything... but you overlooked a few points... no biggie... you are doing better than most actually...

You would have been an idiot if you told me that you were going to "keep it there, 'cause it will be ok"...

But you are not.. so you are smart...

Safety is no Accident...

IVotedForChange said:

as for the little weeds i weeded out... i didnt just keep the biggest ones and throw the smaller ones away.. i kept the ones that looked healthiest; some of them looked like they had marijuana down syndrome. i just kept the healthy ones, big and small.

Click to expand...

I am sure you are doing the right thing....

I just thought I'd mention.... every time I cracked seeds... early on, the best lookers were males...

IVotedForChange said:

thinking about abandoning the attic effort and making a garage effort... can use scrap 1x2 from the attic... can use it all except the cardboard.

Click to expand...

Oh Oh...

are we changing plans in the middle of the campaign?

that can be disastrous... or, if carefully re-planned, can improve your grow...

IVotedForChange said:

nice pics, nice plants.

Click to expand...

Thanks a Lot!

It has been a lot of hard work to get here...

IVotedForChange said:

i would post some pics but i'm a poor boy from the sticks.

Click to expand...

Dude... don't go there...

Neither should be stopping you... and I HIGHLY DOUBT you are having half of the financial issues I've had to deal with in 12 months out of work, in bed injured...

and as for the sticks... my front porch is 478 air miles to the nearest road that goes anywhere... or the Bank, movies, bar, mcdonalds, hydro shop, street light or pavement...

Still want to use them excuses..?!?!?!

IVotedForChange said:

my digital camera was bought for me when i graduated high school in 2000.

Click to expand...

You need to upgrade...seriously, even the cheapos are better than what you have.. probably... I don't know.. but probably...lol...

IVotedForChange said:

i could take pictures and upload them on here but i could probably mush a pack of coyotes up to where you live quicker.

Click to expand...

wait .. are you one of my neighbors? trying to think who's got a coyote/husky mix out here....

IVotedForChange said:

HAHA! but in all seriousness if i can find my camera and its accessories then i can get you a pic(s).

Click to expand...

You weren't serious????

We mush packs of dogs to each others houses all the time...

and uh... yeah.. pictures.... of the garage... of the attic...

Let's make an educated decision as to which are would suit a grow room better...

IVotedForChange said:

hey gypsy, why dont you write us a tutorial about cloning in shoelaces???

Click to expand...

Because that means work, and I am a lazy stoner... plus.. if you read the GrowFAQ , you will see that MOST everything cannabis is there...

Including wick cloners...

IVotedForChange said:

now i bet i can find some shoelaces in a dumpster!!!

Click to expand...

Yeah but they would have all kinds of nasties...

IVotedForChange said:

that was really funny, but as they say, necessity is the mother of invention...

Click to expand...

Why is it so funny?

I'll have to go dig for a pic...

IVotedForChange said:

hey you didnt have to take the shoelaces off your shoes and walk home barefoot did you?

Click to expand...

It's too cold here to go barefoot much... 2 or 3 weeks out of the year at most...

and I was home to begin with.. so...lol... uh no...

Here are the pics I found related to the shoe string incident... ...












And here is a paste from an old post... same clone...

GypsyBush said:

The first picture was taken on 09/06/08...

The second picture is the same clone on 09/21/08...
Not bad for 15 days eh?!

All of the following pictures were taken just a few minutes ago... so almost 2 months have passed...

I am sorry I do not have a shot of the plant with the roots hanging down... They are about 5 feet long and I could not figure out how to get the shot without my hand on it... until I put it back and then I am not going to fuck with it anymore...

So... these are the shots you get ... but it should illustrate very well the current stat of affairs....lol...

Oh, and I have already taken 6 cuttings from this, before the pics...

The roots are the ones on the right, closest to you...

A backside shot, showing what is, in my opinion, the perfect "HPS veg stretch" for cloning...

This next photo reminds me of the Incredible Hulk for some reason...

Braids of Life...

And a final, close up shot...

Cheers...

Click to expand...

I eventually flowered that clone and got 3 oz from it...

Here it is at harvest day... on the left...

and as I was digging... I found a pic of my humble beginnings... lol...

3 oz. from the humble beginnings of a shoelace... thats awesome..

and haha no i dont think i'd be mushing anything to get to your house. xcept maybe a cessna. i live just north of the mason-dixon line.

i just make the hicks in the sticks because thats the local psyche in these parts... anyone who likes to smoke the hippie lettuce is just that... a goddam hippie.

and wholy crap, i was un aware that you are laid up and in pain such as you are... damn dude that really sucks, i am sure you dont need me to tell you that.. i sincerely hope that all is well on the road to recovery. if you dont mind, what the hell happened?

and yeah i know i need to get a new camera, and yeah the cheap ones are alot better than my old one, which in its day was a decent camera, 1.3 megapixel olympus. it was like 300 bucks back then. not worth a pinch of shit now. actually its quite priceless. it still has some really good pics on it. theres one where i was drunk in the winter time and pissed my name in the snow. now thats a pic i'll post!

and as far as changing the rules in the middle of the game, the plants are gonna continue to veg where they are, i am gonna get my hydro room set up in the garage, and about the time to take cuttings i am gonna have the hydro room ready to go. should be an easy transition. hopefully. and of course i'm open to any suggestion. you have no idea how intent i am on having success. actually i am sure you have every idea. i'm sure its not hard to harken back to the days when you had not yet harvested anything yet, with no weed to smoke.

hey another quick question, if you use smaller containers (like smaller than 1 gal) for floweing in hydro SOG, is this bad for the plants, or will the only side effect be that they will grow smaller?? for example, lets say that a half gal container is used. will the plant be roughly half the size? or will the roots not have enough room and start to rot or something...? also i have a question about the air pump... do you usually put just one in your tray, or how many?

You know.. I have never experimented with that aspect of it...

I have heard from good sources (but without scientific proof) that Cannabis cannot become rootbound... meaning as long as there is a root and there are nutrients, growth will not be affected...

With that said, pretty much everyone doing SOG single colas is using 1 gallon pots...

And also the 1 gallon pot gives the perfect spacing for the plants...

This is probably one of the few things I think I will not mess with... 1 gallon pots work...

Feel free to experiment... it is your grow...

But I would recommend baking a few cakes before modifying the recipe...

when in rome do as the romans... 1 gal pots it is!! only reason why i ask is i have a bunch of left over 32 oz pots (1/4 gal) and just wanted to use them up, but if everyone uses 1 gal pots and get the results that I PERSONALLY want to see, then i would be a fool not to use the 1 gal. but when time draws near i will experiment with a smaller pot size in flowering and see what happens, then let you know, or take a pic and show the difference.

IVotedForChange said:

when in rome do as the romans... 1 gal pots it is!! only reason why i ask is i have a bunch of left over 32 oz pots (1/4 gal) and just wanted to use them up, but if everyone uses 1 gal pots and get the results that I PERSONALLY want to see, then i would be a fool not to use the 1 gal. but when time draws near i will experiment with a smaller pot size in flowering and see what happens, then let you know, or take a pic and show the difference.

Click to expand...

Smart...

For sure I would stick one or 2 clones on the smaller pots to see what happens...

But I think you will be right back at the 1 gallon pots...

They give the prefect spacing too... each plant occupies the diameter of the pot.. just as crowded as as one would want it...

been into 32 oz containers for a day or 2 now just waitint for them to mature... then take the next steps.. been sorta planning and pricing some materials for the new hydro grow room.