Soil runoff
- Thread starter Kingrow1
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jawbrodt
Well-Known Member
First off, a PPM meter, is measuring your 'total dissolved solids', which is how much stuff is in your water, besides water. Think of your PPM like you would 'salt', it might help. For example, if you started with a glass of pure water(which has a PPM of zero, meaning nothing is dissolved in it) and added a tablespoon of salt, stirred it and let it dissolve, your PPMs might be 1000. Now, if you added another tablespoon, your PPMs would be about 2000. When you check your soil runoff, the water is flowing down through the soil, picking up all the crap that is unused by the plant, and running out the bottom. When I flush my plants, I use my TDS(PPM) meter, and flush til my runoff is around 100, which tells me the soil is pretty damn clean. Then, the plants get a fresh start, because I know EXACTLY what I'm giving them, and don't have to 'guess' what kind of crap is already in the soil, left unused from the previous feeding, or perhaps, came with the soil, to begin with. That's the point of flushing, in your case, aside from bringing the PH to where you want it. When you flush at the end of harvest(if you choose to), it's also to clean your medium, but for a different reason...to make for a cleaner final product, free of excess nutes/chemicals.
So, if your runoff PPM is really high, it means you're overfeeding them, or that they aren't able to feed, because the PH is off, or whatever the case my be. At any rate, it's time to back off til you get the problem straightened out, 'cause you're heading for nutelock. Too much 'nutrient X' will lock out 'nutrient Y', which is why a flush is always a good thing, it eliminates the guesswork, trying to figure out what nutrients are bulit-up in your soil. Never just quit feeding til your PPMs come down, if they are really high, unless you are a risk-taker,lol or have the experience to KNOW what's in your soil. It's always safer to flush, then feed, if necessary. If you flush, and the plant is already showing deficiencies, it's always wise to feed them right after you're done flushing, or else they'll further starve, til you put nutes back in the soil.(assuming you've flushed thoroughly)
I hope that helped some?
So, if your runoff PPM is really high, it means you're overfeeding them, or that they aren't able to feed, because the PH is off, or whatever the case my be. At any rate, it's time to back off til you get the problem straightened out, 'cause you're heading for nutelock. Too much 'nutrient X' will lock out 'nutrient Y', which is why a flush is always a good thing, it eliminates the guesswork, trying to figure out what nutrients are bulit-up in your soil. Never just quit feeding til your PPMs come down, if they are really high, unless you are a risk-taker,lol or have the experience to KNOW what's in your soil. It's always safer to flush, then feed, if necessary. If you flush, and the plant is already showing deficiencies, it's always wise to feed them right after you're done flushing, or else they'll further starve, til you put nutes back in the soil.(assuming you've flushed thoroughly)
I hope that helped some?
hellraizer30
Rebel From The North
Well said jaw that was the direction I was going
Shwagbag
Well-Known Member
Well said!
Kingrow1
Well-Known Member
Pretty much the definitive guide for a noob like me!lol! I see i was asking the wrong question about ppm.
What more can i say, pretty much killed the thread with that jawbrodt!lol
I guess this ties into having regular flushes to give you a fresh starting point before a problem happens. I see a flush a month is what seems to be best so in that month alternate waterings and ferts i would probably feed 3 times and water 3 times at max. So i give myself a fresh start after 3 ferts. Just some ideas and seeing that the ferts are cycled through the soil a lot quicker than i was doing. Dose this seem right now pH and ppm has been thoroughly explained?
I cannot ppm my biobizz bloom as it is organic, the grow dose but not the bloom so i still have to add ml per litre and watered into soil this, i take it, is broken down in the soil by the living micorherd and made available for the plant hence giving me ppm in my runoff?
Thanks for the post before jawbroldt, truly decisive and totally clears up ppm and then some. Thanks
What more can i say, pretty much killed the thread with that jawbrodt!lol
I guess this ties into having regular flushes to give you a fresh starting point before a problem happens. I see a flush a month is what seems to be best so in that month alternate waterings and ferts i would probably feed 3 times and water 3 times at max. So i give myself a fresh start after 3 ferts. Just some ideas and seeing that the ferts are cycled through the soil a lot quicker than i was doing. Dose this seem right now pH and ppm has been thoroughly explained?
I cannot ppm my biobizz bloom as it is organic, the grow dose but not the bloom so i still have to add ml per litre and watered into soil this, i take it, is broken down in the soil by the living micorherd and made available for the plant hence giving me ppm in my runoff?
Thanks for the post before jawbroldt, truly decisive and totally clears up ppm and then some. Thanks
Shwagbag
Well-Known Member
I would venture to say that if you're using an organic flowering fert then a flush would not be necessary as a buildup shouldn't be a problem as long as you're not using chemical ferts. This is exactly why I'm trying to take my soil all organic is to avoid issues like you're having and like I've had. We learn from them every time they happen, but man it sucks.
I would disregard your ppms if you're using organic ferts. I wouldn't flush during flower if using organic ferts as there should be no need. As long as your plants have a strong root base I don't see you overfeeding with an organic flowering nutrient.
Kingrow1
Well-Known Member
Thanks, i like the idea, i think this will slowly happen as my plants transition to the right pH soil and waterings, maybe just a few plants to flush again and they should be stable. Seedlings and small plants are taking off with the pH water. Still early days but i'd say it is going well so far. I have been using a lot more fertilizer in my plants recently and could be responsible for the pH to some extent. I just want to grow a few plants through now see the results long term.
I read that ec meters couldn't detect ppm as they are organic particles and don't hold a charge for the electrocondutivity/ec meter to read, then when i got it i tried it on my biobizz grow and bloom and it read the grow but not the bloom. I looked into a few threads and researched it and found that a lot of people find the ec reading of biobizz grow to be comparable with what the bottle recommends to feed per litre. Long story short it seems ok to ec biobizz grow with the ec meter, apparently.
Advice here has been second to none! Its made my introduction to pH and ppm quick and smooth and the same can be said about the results. Love that little pH/ec meter.
I read that ec meters couldn't detect ppm as they are organic particles and don't hold a charge for the electrocondutivity/ec meter to read, then when i got it i tried it on my biobizz grow and bloom and it read the grow but not the bloom. I looked into a few threads and researched it and found that a lot of people find the ec reading of biobizz grow to be comparable with what the bottle recommends to feed per litre. Long story short it seems ok to ec biobizz grow with the ec meter, apparently.
Advice here has been second to none! Its made my introduction to pH and ppm quick and smooth and the same can be said about the results. Love that little pH/ec meter.
watchhowIdoit
New Member
Depends on the type of lime on how fast it acts. Dolomitic lime has an almost instant(a few days) effect, while calcitic takes more time, and hydrated lime applied after planting will burn a plant up. Just read the labels and be sure to get dolomitic lime. 1 tablespoon per gallon of medium in the mix before planting and then maybe a top dressing after 5-6 weeks of veg to get ready for the long run of feeding during flowering........
edit: with calcitic and hydrated limes its very easy to get your mix too alkiline. While dolomitic will maintain a near nuetral pH no matter the dose. Just if you use too much dolomitic lime you can overdose your plants/medium on calcium causing lockup/out issues with your other nutes....and trying to read a mediums pH by runoff is useless. If you want to know the pH of your medium then test the medium. Basic kits can be had at most garden centers for under ten bucks.........
Los Muertos
Active Member
IF it's the fine ground. The coarse stuff take months to do anything.
watchhowIdoit
New Member
The polymers they use to 'pelletize' most garden lime breaks down all most instantly when it gets wet, you can even make a drench out of it. Fine ground or course really makes no difference. Like I said, its the type of lime that matters....
Kingrow1
Well-Known Member
I buy a fine grade garden lime which i try to powder with a pestle and mortar, you say a few days to activate in the soil? I use about a tablespoon a gallon or 15ml maybe a tad more.
Watchowidoit- runoff readings may be useless in your opinion but do you subscribe to the fact that you should flush till your runoff is the same pH as the water you flush with?
Watchowidoit- runoff readings may be useless in your opinion but do you subscribe to the fact that you should flush till your runoff is the same pH as the water you flush with?
Los Muertos
Active Member
There's no way coarse grade dolomitic lime is gonna be effective in less than 2 weeks if it's mixed prior to planting. Probably, more like a month
or 2. Greater surface area = faster acting.
Mort Fink
New Member
I don't know man I use the dolomite pellets and they keep my soil pretty stable from the get go. Maybe it depends on the brand, my pellets also dissolve in water fairly quickly. The powder might also drain through the mix alot faster while the pellets are a more stable slow release. There is a reason they come in pellet form its not a joke being played on gardeners.
Los Muertos
Active Member
I understand what you're saying, but most soil's ph is fairly stable to begin with, it's usually only after the peat starts breaking down that it drops. If that's the case then the lime isn't taking the soil to an acceptable range as much as it is just keeping it stable. It could've taken a month to work, but wasn't even needed until then. I agree that you prolly don't want to actually turn it to powder. When I say 'fine' I mean about like this o.
edit: I'm referring specifically to adding lime to the soil prior to planting.
Mort Fink
New Member
"the use of pelletized lime is more desirable. Not only is it a cleaner material to apply then the old powdery grade, pelletized lime tends to stay where you spread it. Wind and water runoff won't affect it nearly as much as the powder grade so use the pellet if you can find it. "
http://www.soil-ph.com/soil-ph
Los Muertos
Active Member
lol 'Pelletized' lime comes in different grades fine-coarse. I'm talking about using fine pelletized lime, not the powdered shit.
edit: from the same article "Make sure you either water or get a good few rain falls over the next MONTH to help the lime breakdown and mix with the soil."
editedit: I wasn't trying to be a dick, sorry if I came across that way.
Shwagbag
Well-Known Member
Basically, I use the dolomite lime pellets to mix into my medium. When I induce flowering I use the same. If I have a problem, the powder is the answer for me because i can mix it with my watering solution and it works almost instantly to stabilize PH and provide cal and mag.
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