Soil runoff

Reading what you guys been saying i have a few things to say, my garden lime looks grey when i buy it and grey when i powder it, says fine grade when i get it but it is about the same grade as sand.

I can buy westplus/westlands peat free soil/compost, would this be better? What dose peat free entail apart from being peat free?

Kingrow1 said:

Reading what you guys been saying i have a few things to say, my garden lime looks grey when i buy it and grey when i powder it, says fine grade when i get it but it is about the same grade as sand.

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You're good to go (imo) if it's like sand.

I crush this futher with a pestle and mortar to almost a powder. It dissolves in water but there is still residue left at the bottom of the watering container.

Los Muertos said:

lol 'Pelletized' lime comes in different grades fine-coarse. I'm talking about using fine pelletized lime, not the powdered shit.

edit: from the same article "Make sure you either water or get a good few rain falls over the next MONTH to help the lime breakdown and mix with the soil."

editedit: I wasn't trying to be a dick, sorry if I came across that way.

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I didn't take it as you being a dick. I was just stating the benefits of the pellet form.

Los Muertos said:

There's no way coarse grade dolomitic lime is gonna be effective in less than 2 weeks if it's mixed prior to planting. Probably, more like a month
or 2. Greater surface area = faster acting.

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You dont have a clue when it comes to lime dude, thats becoming pretty obvious. Has nothing to do with surface area, size of pellet ect...reaction time is directly connected to type of lime, not surface area. I would not listen this guy when it comes to lime. Read the labels folks, find dolomitic lime, use 1 tablespoon per gallon of medium(usually good for 5-6wks)and grow on. Lime is not a magic tonic, its a tool thats usefull in medium maintainance and along the way its also offers a few goodies for our plants also......

Los Muertos said:

I understand what you're saying, but most soil's ph is fairly stable to begin with, it's usually only after the peat starts breaking down that it drops. If that's the case then the lime isn't taking the soil to an acceptable range as much as it is just keeping it stable. It could've taken a month to work, but wasn't even needed until then. I agree that you prolly don't want to actually turn it to powder. When I say 'fine' I mean about like this o.

edit: I'm referring specifically to adding lime to the soil prior to planting.

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Peat is acidic from day one out of the bog pal. It breaks down very little in our containers, its already had a couple of hundred years to do that...in the ancient swampy bog it comes from that is. Also peat is not a soil, its a soiless medium. As far a 'fine' goes, this o or this O matters not. Its the type of lime that relates to reaction time.

watchhowIdoit said:

Peat is acidic from day one out of the bog pal. It breaks down very little in our containers, its already had a couple of hundred years to do that...in the ancient swampy bog it comes from that is. Also peat is not a soil, its a soiless medium. As far a 'fine' goes, this o or this O matters not. Its the type of lime that relates to reaction time.

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Whatever you say professor. Hydrated lime reacts faster than dolomitic? No fucking shit! Keep on with your bunk ass advice.

watchhowIdoit said:

You dont have a clue when it comes to lime dude, thats becoming pretty obvious. Has nothing to do with surface area, size of pellet ect...reaction time is directly connected to type of lime, not surface area. I would not listen this guy when it comes to lime. Read the labels folks, find dolomitic lime, use 1 tablespoon per gallon of medium(usually good for 5-6wks)and grow on. Lime is not a magic tonic, its a tool thats usefull in medium maintainance and along the way its also offers a few goodies for our plants also......

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"Generally, for best results, limestone should be applied two to three months prior to planting to allow time for it to neutralize the acidity.The most important factor determining the effectiveness of lime is placement. Maximum contact of lime with the soil is essential. Most liming materials are only slightly soluble in water, so incorporation in the soil is a must for lime reaction. Even when properly mixed with the soil, lime will have little effect on pH if the soil is dry. Moisture is essential for the lime-soil reaction to occur."

"The reactivity time also depends on the type of lime used. Liming materials differ widely in their neutralizing powers due to variations in the percentage of calcium and/or magnesium. Usually, liming materials with a high calcium carbonate equivalent (CCE) tend to neutralize soil acidity faster than those with a low CCE. The coarseness of the liming material will also influence how fast the lime will react. In other words, the finer the liming material, the greater the surface area, resulting in faster reactivity."

Yeah, you know what you're talking about.

Yes I do know what I am talking about. Your statement above includes the words and phrases 'Generally, most liming materials, reactivity time also depends on type of lime used, tend to lower acidity faster than those with a low CCE'. Thanks for confirming what I have been saying....

Umm not to annoy either of you but the amount of surface area will increase the reaction and not make the reaction happen any faster. More surface area equals more ph buffering in lime but more surface area dose not mean the lime will work any quicker than it could scientifically work. Powdered lime dose not work quicker but its reaction is probaby a lot more noticable and hence why it seems to look like it is working quicker! I think!

Anyway i went ahead and bought the westland west+ peat free soil, came recomended from googling and think biodegraded forest products are the main source of peat replacement, funny as that is what the other ingredient is in the peat version. Maybe you just get the same soil but without the peat.

Will be starting a seedling in it tonight and as long as the seedling is ok in a week i will swap to this soil to avoid the peat (providing results look good)

Should i still lime peat free soil guys? Answers on a postcard, no lol just post them here!lol

Well you guys could just quit arguing and put powered and pelletized both in, should keep you good your whole cycle..

and KING put it in there just to be on the safe side, you never know how a food is gonna make your medium react

wet check your inbox

max316420 said:

Well you guys could just quit arguing and put powered and pelletized both in, should keep you good your whole cycle..

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I use both. I recycle my mix and the pellets are mainly there for the recycle.

@kg1 I use lime in my soil garden and there is very little peat in it.

Wet

Shwagbag said:

Basically, I use the dolomite lime pellets to mix into my medium. When I induce flowering I use the same. If I have a problem, the powder is the answer for me because i can mix it with my watering solution and it works almost instantly to stabilize PH and provide cal and mag.

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That's how I use it, and it works excellent. At about week 6(during the first 2 weeks of 12/12), i sprinkle a thin layer of the pelletized-type, across the top of my soil, then use a long sewing needle to 'till' it in some, poking holes down into the pot, so that some of the pellets fall down in. That holds my PH in-check til they are finished. Actually, i don't even check my soil PH anymore, after having done it the same way for a few runs, I KNOW it's stable.

Yes, you can use lime in a peat-free soil, or any soil, for that matter. As mentioned,...it adds goodies to your soil, and will help keep your PH in check.

I like the way you get the pellets into already planted pots.....

Heya max, yer thanks, i just been reading up on the peat free compost, after a lot of debate i am gona do a half half mix with the seedling compost and the peat free and again with the flowering soil. Will add lime in the same quantities as it never hurt the plant much but hopefully the end result is less of an acidic soil.

I read good and bad results on the peat free compost, mainly that it lacks in nitrogen and is a bit light on the other nutes. I am not feeding hardly any in the veg room at the moment now the pH is getting better so at worst i will have to feed earlier.

On a side note i am getting intrested in fish/blood/bonemeal. I can get varying NPK's and the right ones for flower and veg provided i add a litttle potassium to the soil or waterings as well. I am thinking of going back to the old school of doing it and giving up on buying ferts. Only an idea at the moment but am close to buying some fish/blood/bonemeal for the peatfree compost as i expect it to be light on nutes. Eventually i would like to phase peat products from my grow and feel that they are fast becoming unpopular, except with the garden lime companies!lol!

I am learning and changing a lot this year, hopefully it will be rewarding. The peat free is in response to the low pH of my soils and want to create a happier medium. Maybe i will do my own soil mixes one day soon and blow spending big bucks on a small bag of compost that needs a lot of attention. Peace! :.)

Ya dude peat free almost seems like the way to go... I'm getting sick and tired of dealing with peat lol Let me know how that works out for you cause I might give it a try too..

Yer, i like to jump in with things and need little advice to give some new product a try. I already bought a bag, same company as my peat compost compant, westlands compost sometimes called west+ from westlands. Should be able to find it on google no problems but don't think you will get it where you live. Sounds similar to what you have over there.

Anyway feeling the bag it feels a little lumpy and full of bark but i will await a futher diagnosis till i open it tonight. Might help with drainage if it is a bit bitty. Better not burn this seedling either!lol. Think it is best i go with a half half mix of the old peat soil and new peat free soil as the reduced peat will make up for the lack of structure of the peat free version. This could work out very nicely if and could half my pH problems.

I will test the pH of all three soils that i use, seedling, flowering and peat free by placing one fith soil into four fiths pH7 water and reading the pH with my trident meter. Will note ppm but don't think this will tell me anything wotsoever. Anyway i am of to do this now so give me an hour or so to complete one repot and test the pH of the soils out of the bag. Cya after and will post in like an hour or so! Peace

max316420 said:

I like the way you get the pellets into already planted pots.....

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Thanks man, it works awesome for fixing PH problems, as well, especially if you take your time, and make sure there's lime pellets distributed throughout the pot, as evenly as possible. It's a bit of a pain-in-the-ass, but will fix a PH problem, almost instantly, when done along with a flush.

I use the powdered-type sometimes too, when I don't have time to 'till',(or time to get as thorough as I'd like) and it also works well. BUT, i'm also to a point where I don't overfeed anymore, or overwater, so my PH holds pretty well, anyway. Understandably, the worse the PH problem, the more thorough you'll want to be.