Sooo do you PH water with Pro Mix or not?

I've been using ProMix HP for about 15 years with RO water and AN 3-part pH Perfect nutes never bother with pH or have any runoff to deal with unless I overfeed and need to runs some extra water thru to reduce nute levels a bit.

Now I'm mixing organics into the HP and still using RO water so still don't worry about pH.

Our tap water comes from a dugout on my property and runs around 800ppm and pH 8+ so I'm not screwing around trying to make that work for my plants.

RuggedWombat said:

Here's an update. I gave the plants 100ml back on 11/5 and I think today they finally might be ready for water. Still trying to strengthen the stems before a transplant. I'll bury the stems when I transplant to help the lankiness.100ml gave them a small drip out of the bottom, so I may try 80ml this time. The leaf issues on the tips don't appear to be expanding so it may well have been watering too soon last time (every 3 days) versus now with a longer dry out period.

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Don't bury the stems. What looks lean and lanky now will look fine when the plants are bigger and keep the leaves off the soil surface so air can circulate better. Flick the plants around when young and small to help build stronger stems. My little ones look all beat up after knocking them around but grow strong with the mild abuse.

And soak the pots then let them dry down until light before soaking again. Same with small plants in large pots. Soak the whole pot then you may not need to water for a couple of weeks. A 2" seedling can have a foot long tap root so watering when the top couple of inches are dry in a big pot leads to root root. Watering small amounts around the base while the rest of the pot is dry restricts root growth and leads to lousy plant growth.

OldMedUser said:

Don't bury the stems. What looks lean and lanky now will look fine when the plants are bigger and keep the leaves off the soil surface so air can circulate better. Flick the plants around when young and small to help build stronger stems. My little ones look all beat up after knocking them around but grow strong with the mild abuse.

And soak the pots then let them dry down until light before soaking again. Same with small plants in large pots. Soak the whole pot then you may not need to water for a couple of weeks. A 2" seedling can have a foot long tap root so watering when the top couple of inches are dry in a big pot leads to root root. Watering small amounts around the base while the rest of the pot is dry restricts root growth and leads to lousy plant growth.

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I gave them water today and they wound up soaking up 160ml before runoff started, so a 60ml increase in the last 5 days. I'm also doing the lift test and they are substantially heavier after the watering. Debating on abandoning the PH down or not. Once I start feeding them the silica I notice a a huge difference in their hardiness.

StareCase said:

I've read articles about amending with extra lime and perlite in Pro Mix. In PT Horticulture's response, they said that there was no need to amend any of the Pro Mix offerings. With these conflicting opinions, I decided the best way to find out definitively to test one grow with those amendment suggestions against another grow with PTH's recommendations of leaving it alone.

I didn't see any difference between the amended grow and the non-amended grow. So now it's Pro Mix right out of the bag.

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Maybe its my room and environment, but when i test promix before each use it consistently comes to 5.4-5.6 ph, and i was always running into ph/louckout issues in week 3. It wasnt until i started giving a slight dusting of lime to bring the medium ph to 6.1-6.3, the problems disappeared and never had any other issues.

Here they are at Day 16. I watered them yesterday and will probably transplant into 5 gal later today. I still haven't given them any nutrients. I plan on using probably 1/16 tsp of foliage pro after they dry out in several days.

14 days in ProMix w/o nutrient support is about as long as you're going to be able to go without feeding.

LeastExpectedGrower said:

14 days in ProMix w/o nutrient support is about as long as you're going to be able to go without feeding.

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The cotyledons so far aren't showing any signs of deficiency. I think I'll water a nutrient solution around the transplant hole to get them started and then start light feedings when they dry out. Really wanting to start small on the foliage pro as 1/4-1/2 tsp can support full sized plants (maintenance volume recommended by manufacturer is 1/4 tsp per gallon). I may mix a bit of protekt as well as to help the hardiness.

RuggedWombat said:

The cotyledons so far aren't showing any signs of deficiency. I think I'll water a nutrient solution around the transplant hole to get them started and then start light feedings when they dry out. Really wanting to start small on the foliage pro as 1/4-1/2 tsp can support full sized plants (maintenance volume recommended by manufacturer is 1/4 tsp per gallon). I may mix a bit of protekt as well as to help the hardiness.

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People keep using the term 'cotyledons' improperly.Cotyledons are the two little round initial leaves that the seeds put out until they grow the next set of leaves. They're only there to get enough light to kick-start the growing process.

LeastExpectedGrower said:

People keep using the term 'cotyledons' improperly.Cotyledons are the two little round initial leaves that the seeds put out until they grow the next set of leaves. They're only there to get enough light to kick-start the growing process.

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Yes that's what I'm referring to. Am I incorrect on the belief that they will start showing the issues first since they are nearest to the bottom? I understand immobile deficiencies won't show, but your primary issues such as N Def would be first evident in the cotyledons right?

RuggedWombat said:

Yes that's what I'm referring to. Am I incorrect on the belief that they will start showing the issues first since they are nearest to the bottom? I understand immobile deficiencies won't show, but your primary issues such as N Def would be first evident in the cotyledons right?

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Generally they yellow and fall off within a couple weeks no matter what. Focus on true leaves.

RuggedWombat said:

... your primary issues such as N Def would be first evident in the cotyledons right? ...

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Further to @LeastExpectedGrower - three nodes have emerged with the 4th just poking it's head out of the top. We both agree that you should judge plant health from those areas and not the few bottom leaves that will become light starved as the plants mature.

The plants are large enough to appreciate the transplant into their larger home and a feed of ~1/2 the recommended dosage.

StareCase said:

Further to @LeastExpectedGrower - three nodes have emerged with the 4th just poking it's head out of the top. We both agree that you should judge plant health from those areas and not the few bottom leaves that will become light starved as the plants mature.

The plants are large enough to appreciate the transplant into their larger home and a feed of ~1/2 the recommended dosage.

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Great insight here as well. I will be using half of the maintenance dose listed here. I may eventually split this off as a grow journal thread to archive the information for future DG users. Ive noticed there aren't a lot of comprehensive DG grows on here that have been done in the last couple of years, even less also using pro mix. Enjoying the insights though; it forces me to question aspects of my methodology and to reject the parts that are untrue. Really hoping pro mix will be the way for me going forward so hoping to finally leave fickle soil behind (except for that JH you see in the back haha but we don't talk about her much). I'll transplant into into the 5 gal and return with an update. I also moved the lights closer to have less distance while they are still pretty small and don't need the large light footprint. Hopefully just using nutrient solution around the transplant hole will tide them over until they dry out in a couple days and I can water the whole plant again.

Rather than using rando spoon measures, it's worth getting some more precise measuring implements. For liquids I use syringes...I keep 1ml and 10ml syringes with each bottle of liquid nutrient. If it's solids I measure in grams on a digital scale. And then I feed based upon EC or PPM. For seedlings I 'ramp up' my feed. After the first week I do a gentle 100-150ppm feed, then each week I push it up until the plants both look happy and don't get tip-burn. So something like 150 then 250 or 300ppm, then 500ppm and so forth. I've had some plants that don't want much and others that look deficient until you're hitting them with 1.6 or 2.0EC.

I also would look at the published feeding chart as a starting point rather than back of the bottle.


Most companies over-state the amounts to feed though, so it's good to notch back what they say unless your plant is complaining.

LeastExpectedGrower said:

Rather than using rando spoon measures, it's worth getting some more precise measuring implements. For liquids I use syringes...I keep 1ml and 10ml syringes with each bottle of liquid nutrient. If it's solids I measure in grams on a digital scale. And then I feed based upon EC or PPM. For seedlings I 'ramp up' my feed. After the first week I do a gentle 100-150ppm feed, then each week I push it up until the plants both look happy and don't get tip-burn. So something like 150 then 250 or 300ppm, then 500ppm and so forth. I've had some plants that don't want much and others that look deficient until you're hitting them with 1.6 or 2.0EC.

I also would look at the published feeding chart as a starting point rather than back of the bottle.

https://dyna-gro.com/feed_chart/

Most companies over-state the amounts to feed though, so it's good to notch back what they say unless your plant is complaining.

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You're referring to PPM without adding in the tap water, correct? My tap is already 180 this time of of year so I just whipped up my first gallon of foliage pro at 330 PPM at 7.0 PH. I want to try protekt again, but I'm worried about the silica build up and haven't found a good balance for it yet. Getting ready to transplant now. I plan to probably do 160ml or so around the hole before planting to give them something to reach for while they finish drying.

RuggedWombat said:

You're referring to PPM without adding in the tap water, correct? My tap is already 180 this time of of year so I just whipped up my first gallon of foliage pro at 330 PPM at 7.0 PH. I want to try protekt again, but I'm worried about the silica build up and haven't found a good balance for it yet. Getting ready to transplant now. I plan to probably do 160ml or so around the hole before planting to give them something to reach for while they finish drying.

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I think that ~300 is probably OK for the size of those plants, but technically 7.0pH isn't where you want to be in ProMix. I'm in the 5.8-6.2pH range. I filter my water down to 0EC/PPM and then add nutrients back in. I had troubles because our water source is 240-340ppm seasonally.

RuggedWombat said:

... I've noticed there aren't a lot of comprehensive DG grows on here that have been done in the last couple of years, even less also using pro mix ...

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There is even less on using Remo Nutes in Pro-Mix.

RuggedWombat said:

... I just whipped up my first gallon of foliage pro at 330 PPM at 7.0 PH ...

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@LeastExpectedGrower knows - a pH of 7.0 for Pro Mix is too high. pH of 5.8 to 6.2 is good range. I'll shoot for even more granular pH of 6.0 to 6.1

StareCase said:

There is even less on using Remo Nutes in Pro-Mix.

@LeastExpectedGrower knows - a pH of 7.0 for Pro Mix is too high. pH of 5.8 to 6.2 is good range. I'll shoot for even more granular pH of 6.0 to 6.1

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I aim for ~6 and if I'm a little shy of that or a little over, I don't worry about it. Since I filter my water, once I add Ca/Mg back in and then my Maxibloom, I'm down around 4.8 or so and I pH up from there. I hate to overshoot and have to adjust back down, so as long as I'm within .1 or .2 I don't stress about it.

LeastExpectedGrower said:

I aim for ~6 and if I'm a little shy of that or a little over, I don't worry about it. Since I filter my water, once I add Ca/Mg back in and then my Maxibloom, I'm down around 4.8 or so and I pH up from there. I hate to overshoot and have to adjust back down, so as long as I'm within .1 or .2 I don't stress about it.

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I had been using AN 3-part in DWC since 2001 when I got gallon jugs of all 3. That lasted me for a few years after the pH Perfect ones came out then I got those and growing life became so much easier. With RO water you just mix in your nutes starting with Micro and water your plants. With ProMix HP you can fill a pot right out of the bale and soak it down with the mix and you're good to grow. No dicking around with pH at all, ever.

The basic 3-part doesn't cost any more than any other 3-part most of the time and the only other AN product I use is Big Bud powder. Got some of teh silica product, Rhino Skin for the DWC grows. Pricey but not really any more than any other good bud booster and IMO about the best booster going at 0-15-35, 20 aminos, 10% S with citric and ascorbic acids. Half dose a week before flipping and the other half at the flip gets more bud sites faster and bigger than anything else I've used and I've tried lots of stuff in the 40+ years since I grew my first buds in '78.

Always water the whole pot even if putting a small plant in a large pot. Those roots grow in length a lot faster than the plant grows in height so a small plant in a big pot may not need watering for few weeks. The pot should feel really light before soaking again. I rarely went over 2ml/L of all 3 every 2nd watering unless the plant looked like it needed more. With practise the plants tell you what they want if you've learned to listen.

Transplant went well. However, the furthest plant had their root ball crumble (fuck) as I placed it in the hole. Hopefully it recovers okay. I did notice the root were starting up the sides a bit, so transplanting a couple of days earlier would have been best. I'll PH the rest of the feed down for their next feeding in a couple of days. I'll just list my PPM as what the nutrient total is sans water. I'm starting with 150 PPM and like stated above I'll up it a bit maybe every other feeding until they get upset. One plant did start to show early signs of discoloring in the veins in the new top leaves, so it looks like a couple of days ago would have been best to start nutrients. Enjoying the learning though as long as it doesn't compromise the results. I'll update when they get their first full feeding in several days.

LeastExpectedGrower said:

Rather than using rando spoon measures, it's worth getting some more precise measuring implements. For liquids I use syringes...I keep 1ml and 10ml syringes with each bottle of liquid nutrient. If it's solids I measure in grams on a digital scale. And then I feed based upon EC or PPM. For seedlings I 'ramp up' my feed. After the first week I do a gentle 100-150ppm feed, then each week I push it up until the plants both look happy and don't get tip-burn. So something like 150 then 250 or 300ppm, then 500ppm and so forth. I've had some plants that don't want much and others that look deficient until you're hitting them with 1.6 or 2.0EC.

I also would look at the published feeding chart as a starting point rather than back of the bottle.

https://dyna-gro.com/feed_chart/

Most companies over-state the amounts to feed though, so it's good to notch back what they say unless your plant is complaining.

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The targets on that feed chart are insane. Even half of that is what I would feed a plant toward the end of veg. I tried 1ml of FP and it sent the PPM to 270 so already a bit hot for them this early. I watered down the solution to 150. I already have 20ml syringes, but I'll order a 10 and 1 as well.