Sprouted Seed Tea help (a bit urgent)

Hi all

Attempting to brew a sprouted seed tea for first time and im confused.

I have 2,5 liters of rye seed that have been soaking for 2 days and still no sprout. When sprouted I plan to add that seed to 100 gallons of water add fulvic acid and let it brew for a day or two. Then i plan on just watering that to the plants.

Am I doing this right? Should i dillute tea? Any reason why the rye hasnt sprouted yet after 2 days of soaking?

Thanks in advance.

Not sure how long Rye would take. Just make sure and toss the first water, as it will have some toxins. Add water back and then bubble again and use that water. Some put the seeds in a blender and throw that in also.

I rely on the Fulvic and Humic Acids in the compost already, personally.

Look up diastatic malt powder or malted barley powder. [Before the albums went away, I had a nutrional analysis posted and nutrients were off the charts good! ]

I buy mine cheap as hell from a local brew shop and add 1 tbsp per gallon.

Brewers rely on the enzymes of the powder to be as consistent as possible for their "wort".


I have had good luck on using this stuff after about 6 months.

Abiqua said:

Look up diastatic malt powder or malted barley powder. [Before the albums went away, I had a nutrional analysis posted and nutrients were off the charts good! ]

I buy mine cheap as hell from a local brew shop and add 1 tbsp per gallon.

Brewers rely on the enzymes of the powder to be as consistent as possible for their "wort".


I have had good luck on using this stuff after about 6 months.

Click to expand...

Abiqua or community...

would spent hops and barely from a brewery be off the charts as well?

DankSwag

DANKSWAG said:

Abiqua or community...

would spent hops and barely from a brewery be off the charts as well?

DankSwag

Click to expand...

This is pretty good. Good start for an analysis and potential of enzymatic pathways.....
Brewer's Spent Grain: generation, characteristics and potential applications

I like live seed teas personally. Many of the compounds we're looking for only last for only a couple of hours

Abiqua said:

Look up diastatic malt powder or malted barley powder. [Before the albums went away, I had a nutrional analysis posted and nutrients were off the charts good! ]

I buy mine cheap as hell from a local brew shop and add 1 tbsp per gallon.

Brewers rely on the enzymes of the powder to be as consistent as possible for their "wort".


I have had good luck on using this stuff after about 6 months.

Click to expand...

I picked up a bag of that, but then heard shortly after not to bother using it. Apparently the enzymes don't carry over like they would with fresh seeds.

Rrog said:

I like live seed teas personally. Many of the compounds we're looking for only last for only a couple of hours

Click to expand...

^That^.

Always listen to Rrog. Grand master ganja-guru.

Lol

Rrog said:

I like live seed teas personally. Many of the compounds we're looking for only last for only a couple of hours

Click to expand...

Based on what exactly? I talked to a master brewer who was also a gardener and we talked hours about the subject.

Accordingly my results are strictly anecdotal, however, malt barley is the end result of ground up seed sprouts, nothing more. Fungi and archae in the brewer's wort, also rely on some of the same enzymes that catalyze in seed sprout tea.....

I am an avid reader of chemistry and such and I would like some sort of explanation, not just "it won't work". Enzymatic pathways being inhibited? Krebs cycle shunting causing incomplete citric acid cycles? These are some possible explanations I have researched but nothing concrete as of yet.........

Just curious, if you have come across any kind of enzymatic assay to back those claims?

Wish I had lab equipment to perform this assay:

Assay
Method: That of Bernfield (1951) wherein the reducing groups released from starch are measured by the reduction of 3,5-dinitrosalicylic acid. One unit releases from soluble starch one micromole of reducing groups (calculated as maltose) per minute at 25°C and pH 6.9 under the specified conditions.

Reagents

• 0.02 M Sodium phosphate buffer, pH 6.9 with 0.006 M sodium chloride
• 2 N Sodium hydroxide
• Dinitrosalicylic acid color reagent. Prepare by dissolving 1.0 gm of 3,5-dinitrosalicylic acid in 50 ml of reagent grade water. Add slowly 30.0 gms sodium potassium tartrate tetrahydrate. Add 20 ml of 2 N NaOH. Dilute to a final volume of 100 ml with reagent grade water. Protect from carbon dioxide and store no longer than 2 weeks.
• 1% Starch. Prepare by dissolving 1.0 gm soluble starch, (Merck) in 100 ml 0.02 M sodium phosphate buffer, pH 6.9 with 0.006 M sodium chloride. Bring to a gentle boil to dissolve. Cool and bring volume to 100 ml, with water, if necessary. Incubate at 25°C for 4-5 minutes prior to assay.
• Maltose Stock Solution. Prepare by dissolving 180 mg maltose (MW 360.3) in 100 ml reagent grade water in a volumetric flask.

Enzyme

Dilute to a concentration of 1-10 micrograms/ml. A minimum of three different concentrations in this range should be run.



Procedure

Adjust spectrophotometer to 540 nm and 25°C.

Using the maltose stock solution prepare a maltose standard curve as follows: In numbered tubes, prepare 10 maltose dilutions ranging from 0.3 to 5 micromoles per ml. Include two blank tubes with reagent grade water only. Into a series of corresponding numbered tubes pipette 1 ml of each dilution of maltose. Add 1 ml of dinitrosalicylic acid color reagent. Incubate in boiling water bath for 5 minutes and cool to room temperature. Add 10 ml distilled water to each tube and mix well. Read A540 versus micromoles maltose.

Enzyme assay: Pipette 0.5 ml of respective enzyme dilutions into a series of numbered test tubes. Include a blank with 0.5 ml reagent grade water. Incubate tubes at 25°C for 3-4 minutes to achieve temperature equilibration. At timed intervals, add 0.5 ml starch solution (at 25°C). Incubate exactly 3 minutes and at timed intervals add 1 ml dinitrosalicylic acid color reagent to each tube. Incubate all tubes in a boiling water bath for 5 minutes. Cool to room temperature and add 10 ml reagent grade water. Mix well and read A540 versus blank. Determine micromoles maltose released from standard curve.

Calculation

Abiqua,

I can't wait for your info on the nettles and I am so curious to learn if spent hops and barely can produce those coveted enzyme. I think I do know, worms love their brew compost!

DankSwag

Abiqua said:

Based on what exactly? I talked to a master brewer who was also a gardener and we talked hours about the subject.

Accordingly my results are strictly anecdotal, however, malt barley is the end result of ground up seed sprouts, nothing more. Fungi and archae in the brewer's wort, also rely on some of the same enzymes that catalyze in seed sprout tea.....

I am an avid reader of chemistry and such and I would like some sort of explanation, not just "it won't work". Enzymatic pathways being inhibited? Krebs cycle shunting causing incomplete citric acid cycles? These are some possible explanations I have researched but nothing concrete as of yet.........

Just curious, if you have come across any kind of enzymatic assay to back those claims?

Click to expand...

It's the conversion of the endosperm in to sugars via enzymes (from a whole seed) that we are after. Wouldn't the milling process destroy the endosperm? The sprouting process is halted once peak enzyme production (and therefor sugar production) is reached, and the resulting sprouts are then mashed and added as a soil drench.

I'm no brewer, and certainly no scientist, but I don't see how a flour that has been sitting dormant on a shelf could realize this same starch-to-sugar conversion that a whole, living seed could.

Brewing utilizes those sugars to occur, don't think that the malt is lacking in this respect.

I do worry about preservatives, but as far I am aware none are used. Endosperm is the malt.....

Abiqua said:

Brewing utilizes those sugars to occur, don't think that the malt is lacking in this respect.

I do worry about preservatives, but as far I am aware none are used. Endosperm is the malt.....

Click to expand...

The endosperm is converted in to sugars by the enzymes during the sprouting process. I suspect that the benefit to the plant with SST's is the plants ability to utilize these sugars and possibly the enzymes. Do you feel that this would translate over to a flour that has been sitting in a bag for months?

st0wandgrow said:

The endosperm is converted in to sugars by the enzymes during the sprouting process. I suspect that the benefit to the plant with SST's is the plants ability to utilize these sugars and possibly the enzymes. Do you feel that this would translate over to a flour that has been sitting in a bag for months?

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possibly. I do know the starch has been converted to sugars by the enzymes.. its a healthier flour to cook with. I used it in a tea when cootz , headtreep, and cann recommended it.. The tea did foam up just as fast.. The number of enzymes in flour compared to seed sprouts, I have no idea. I also wonder if the amount of enzymes vary depending on the type of seed sprouts.

Abiqua said:

Based on what exactly?

Just curious, if you have come across any kind of enzymatic assay to back those claims?

Click to expand...

Nope. But none of this is conjecture. Many (if not most) powerful plant compounds are not stable outside the plant or intended environment. This lone is nothing new.

I can only speak for myself, but when I'm brewing a seed tea, I'm looking for a host of secondary metabolites, hormones, enzymes, some of which may degrade or become less active with exposure to UV, Oxygen, etc. Preservatives are used to stabilize these (Citric Acid) for commercial bottled amendments.

I want the metabolites produced by the seed during its germination.

Again, that's what my goal is.

I fully believe in living sources myself now. Fresh compost, fresh EWC, seeds are so cheap to buy and easy to sprout, and you are getting RIGHT FROM a living source to go to a living organism. Cheapest, most logical, and easy enough to not need to save time using powders I say.

Personally, I like using the SST because of the wide range of enzymes, cytokinins, auxins, gibberellins, etc. I can't imagine these would carryover intact into a malted barely process. However, I'd love to hear opinions on this. I would think heat is not your friend here.

P-

Been doing teas for a wee while now and there is a huge difference on crystal production, some on bud density and a greater and deeper complexity of smells on the same strain grown in extremely similar soil. Overall plants look sturdier and more vigurous. I do find that the fresh mush is better than the frozen one, though its kinda hard to time it right for a tea to be ready in time for a watering. Still having trouble germinating wheat sometimes and have wasted a fair few pounds of it lol but think i got it down now.

I am going for corn if I do an SST these days. It is not often, but I find it helps bring out a spectacular fade if you hit the ladies in the last few weeks, like they really metabolize everything. I notice a big difference in flavor if bud has had a nice fade, speeds up the cure too. But yeah, corn is also not always happy to play along when it comes to sprouting. Takes a little longer too.