Start flushing ?

Shagga

Member
Hi all,
Fist time grow using the SCROG method.
Need a bit of help in clarifying weather I should start flushing or go a little longer with regular feeding.
I've been tapering of my base nutes to half strength and adding kool bloom dry to get a E.C of 1.2
I've herd a lot of people mention to flush about 2 weeks before harvest but again others have said no need to flush any more that a few days in coco.
I'll throw a few pics up if anyone with experience could help advise if I'm right to harvest within a week or 2 or start flushing now for a few days and chop?
I've checked trichomes and they seem to be mostly all cloudy a few clear., might be a few Amber but it's not destinctive.
Put a lot of time into this and any advise would be a help.
Thanks.

* strain - Big Buddha cheese
* flowering time - week 8
* coco - run to waste
* 600 Hps
* nutes - Ionic optimum GT
* booster - kool bloom dry
* temps - 25 - 29 degrees
* humidity - 50%
* E.C - 1.2 - 2.0
* PH - 5.8 - 6.0
 

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racerboy71

bud bootlegger
looks great, and pretty close, and i never say that.. i'd give them maybe another week or so, depending on the trics, but your calyx's are nice and swollen, most hairs have receded, getting very close imvho..
i'm also not a flusher, but if you have 2 plants, flush one, don't flush the second, dry and cure both, smoke and compare, make your own judgement on the flushing debate..
 
looks great, and pretty close, and i never say that.. i'd give them maybe another week or so, depending on the trics, but your calyx's are nice and swollen, most hairs have receded, getting very close imvho..
i'm also not a flusher, but if you have 2 plants, flush one, don't flush the second, dry and cure both, smoke and compare, make your own judgement on the flushing debate..
So no flush for you I heard that as well. So you don't taste a difference?
 

Shagga

Member
looks great, and pretty close, and i never say that.. i'd give them maybe another week or so, depending on the trics, but your calyx's are nice and swollen, most hairs have receded, getting very close imvho..
i'm also not a flusher, but if you have 2 plants, flush one, don't flush the second, dry and cure both, smoke and compare, make your own judgement on the flushing debate..
Thank you for the reassuring info mate,
I'll stay patient and let it go for a another week and check trics as you mention hopefully by then it will be good to go.
I have x2 plants in 1.2x1.2x2.0 tent
Good advise,, I'll feed one all the way through and the other I'll start a flush tomorrow till harvest.
One was topped and the other was natural so it will be interesting to see.
If I can ask one more off topic question?
What do u know about defoliation,, there a lot of bud sights getting covered by leaves. Removing them shouldn't do any harm right? I know some people state to leave them .
 

Resinhound

Well-Known Member
Thank you for the reassuring info mate,
I'll stay patient and let it go for a another week and check trics as you mention hopefully by then it will be good to go.
I have x2 plants in 1.2x1.2x2.0 tent
Good advise,, I'll feed one all the way through and the other I'll start a flush tomorrow till harvest.
One was topped and the other was natural so it will be interesting to see.
If I can ask one more off topic question?
What do u know about defoliation,, there a lot of bud sights getting covered by leaves. Removing them shouldn't do any harm right? I know some people state to leave them .
lol you are 2 for 2...a flushing and defoilation thread all in one.Gratz man
 

Chrissa

Well-Known Member
The plants stores it's nutrients down in the root system at night and then starts moving it up the plant what's lights trn on "photosynthesis" if your plant is let's say 64 day flowerer in optimal conditions .. on day 50 if you are feeding at 2.0 ec for example start gradually lowering the ec over the two weeks on the day before harvest I'm at 0.5 -0.4 ec but I am not flushing the medium thosee 2 later week are critical for weight and bud maturity nurture the Damn thing.. then like I said persay a 64 day flower once u reach day 60 start checking those thrichromes all over the plant not just in one area and when u are going to harvest chop her down before lights on so it doesn't start photosynthesising ... honestly flushing at end of flowering is pointless keep a proper ph and a gradual increase on e.c don't over do fert and ull never have a problem withsalt buildup in your medium and that in my opinion is the only reason you should flush
What is happening in the plant during the last two weeks of growth? When I check... I see lots of different names for this period - aggressive bloom, bud swell, and etc. But no matter what it is called, this is a critical period in the development of an MJ plant. Smells develop and mature. Buds are filling with resin. And the plant is undergoing one final major push to produce. So the plant is growing in many ways, just not in physical size.

Why would anyone take away nutrients when the plant most needs them? Doesn't make sense. Ok... I know the argument, the plant is merely moving nutrients from one part to the other. Good argument, but unfortunately it just isn't true in all cases.

For our purposes, there are two classes of nutrients. Mobile nutrients and immobile nutrients. Mobile nutrients are ones that we know the plant can move around inside of itself. The immobile nutrients can only come from the roots - they can not be moved once inside the plant. There are scientific reasons behind this having to do with xylem and phloem that I will skip. If you are interested in the science behind this, let me know and I can give you some pointers.

So which are mobile nutrients? The list is as follows: N, P, K, Mg and S. The other nutrients which are immobile are Ca, Fe, Zn, Mo, B, Cu, and Mn. If you need a layman's thought process to justify this - the mobile nutrients are the ones that cause problems on older growth (they are stolen from old growth to support new growth... thus they are obviously mobile within the plant). The immobile nutrients affect the whole plant at once - and most especially in the areas of growth (the growth shoots or apical meristems) which is at the outside edges of the plant.

The typical recommendation for flushing goes something like this: "For the last two weeks of the flowering cycle, remove all nutrients and use R/O water." Some will suggest a flushing solution which is mostly sugar. In either case, you are severely limiting all nutrients - not just the mobile ones.

So why is this a critical error?

You need to think about what happens when a plant does not have calcium... cell division comes to a halt. This results in "stunted" growth if it occurs during the normal plants life cycle... something we would fight agressively... but we accept it as part of the final flush? Doesn't make sense.

Boron is also essential for new plant growth. Without Boron - you won't get good bud development.

I could go on and point out what each of these immobile nutrients do. But it would be better for you to go and find a source, read about the effects each of these nutrients has, and then decide if that is something that you want stopped during the last two weeks of flower.

The final thing I want to point out is plant stress. You are going from a high nutrient environment to one where you have pretty close to zero. This will obviously put stress on the plant. Think how long it would take for your body to adjust between say... a high fat diet and one based on water. You are not just going to continue in life like nothing happened... The same sort of thing happens to the plant. And plant stress reduces yield.

So I think that I have made my point that flushing is bad due to the science behind growth. But what does actual growing experience tell me?

It is a fact that flushing restricts yield. Don't care the type of MJ plant. I started with two week flushes... then moved to one week to limit the amount of yield loss... and have now moved to 3 days on my latest grow. I can't tell any difference in taste between each of these time frames. And yes, I have had overlapping yields of the same plants genetics - so that I can actually tell.

That's not mine btw but very explanatory
 
The plants stores it's nutrients down in the root system at night and then starts moving it up the plant what's lights trn on "photosynthesis" if your plant is let's say 64 day flowerer in optimal conditions .. on day 50 if you are feeding at 2.0 ec for example start gradually lowering the ec over the two weeks on the day before harvest I'm at 0.5 -0.4 ec but I am not flushing the medium thosee 2 later week are critical for weight and bud maturity nurture the Damn thing.. then like I said persay a 64 day flower once u reach day 60 start checking those thrichromes all over the plant not just in one area and when u are going to harvest chop her down before lights on so it doesn't start photosynthesising ... honestly flushing at end of flowering is pointless keep a proper ph and a gradual increase on e.c don't over do fert and ull never have a problem withsalt buildup in your medium and that in my opinion is the only reason you should flush
What is happening in the plant during the last two weeks of growth? When I check... I see lots of different names for this period - aggressive bloom, bud swell, and etc. But no matter what it is called, this is a critical period in the development of an MJ plant. Smells develop and mature. Buds are filling with resin. And the plant is undergoing one final major push to produce. So the plant is growing in many ways, just not in physical size.

Why would anyone take away nutrients when the plant most needs them? Doesn't make sense. Ok... I know the argument, the plant is merely moving nutrients from one part to the other. Good argument, but unfortunately it just isn't true in all cases.

For our purposes, there are two classes of nutrients. Mobile nutrients and immobile nutrients. Mobile nutrients are ones that we know the plant can move around inside of itself. The immobile nutrients can only come from the roots - they can not be moved once inside the plant. There are scientific reasons behind this having to do with xylem and phloem that I will skip. If you are interested in the science behind this, let me know and I can give you some pointers.

So which are mobile nutrients? The list is as follows: N, P, K, Mg and S. The other nutrients which are immobile are Ca, Fe, Zn, Mo, B, Cu, and Mn. If you need a layman's thought process to justify this - the mobile nutrients are the ones that cause problems on older growth (they are stolen from old growth to support new growth... thus they are obviously mobile within the plant). The immobile nutrients affect the whole plant at once - and most especially in the areas of growth (the growth shoots or apical meristems) which is at the outside edges of the plant.

The typical recommendation for flushing goes something like this: "For the last two weeks of the flowering cycle, remove all nutrients and use R/O water." Some will suggest a flushing solution which is mostly sugar. In either case, you are severely limiting all nutrients - not just the mobile ones.

So why is this a critical error?

You need to think about what happens when a plant does not have calcium... cell division comes to a halt. This results in "stunted" growth if it occurs during the normal plants life cycle... something we would fight agressively... but we accept it as part of the final flush? Doesn't make sense.

Boron is also essential for new plant growth. Without Boron - you won't get good bud development.

I could go on and point out what each of these immobile nutrients do. But it would be better for you to go and find a source, read about the effects each of these nutrients has, and then decide if that is something that you want stopped during the last two weeks of flower.

The final thing I want to point out is plant stress. You are going from a high nutrient environment to one where you have pretty close to zero. This will obviously put stress on the plant. Think how long it would take for your body to adjust between say... a high fat diet and one based on water. You are not just going to continue in life like nothing happened... The same sort of thing happens to the plant. And plant stress reduces yield.

So I think that I have made my point that flushing is bad due to the science behind growth. But what does actual growing experience tell me?

It is a fact that flushing restricts yield. Don't care the type of MJ plant. I started with two week flushes... then moved to one week to limit the amount of yield loss... and have now moved to 3 days on my latest grow. I can't tell any difference in taste between each of these time frames. And yes, I have had overlapping yields of the same plants genetics - so that I can actually tell.

That's not mine btw but very explanatory
Mind if I steal for different blog
 
I asked about pre harvest flushing and black ashes a very well respected 40+ year grower gave me this answer:

Chlorophyll b is the 'type' found in plants as we're defining it. Other structures are found in algae, cyanobacteria, et al.



Here is the molecular formula - C55H70O6N4Mg so we're looking at 55 Carbon ions, 70 Hydrogen ions, 6 Oxygen ions, 4 Nitrogen ions and 1 Magnesium ion. All 6 forms of chlorophyll have one consistent dynamic, i.e. a single Magnesium ion. Not two, not three - one. So much for the mythology about magnesium-hungry plants or worse in the wacky weed world where specific 'strains' can be magnesium-hungry. Looking at just chlorophyll b a better myth would be carbon-hungry or hydrogen-hungry and maybe even oxygen-hungry and nothing to do with magnesium.

My understanding of this worst example of stoner science is that by dumping copious amounts of water somehow water with it's simple H2O formula is able to reach up from the root zone then into a plant's vascular system and deconstruct a fairly complex molecule - that must be some really unique water indeed!

In a dynamic called translocation plants can and do move materials from leaves to other tissues - that is established botany. Plants produce carbohydrates (sugars) in the leaves by photosynthesis but non-photysynthetic parts of the plant also require carbohydrates and other organic and nonorganic materials. It's for this reason that nutrients are translocated from sources (regions of excess carbohydrates, primarily matures leaves) to what are called sinks.

Some important sinks are roots, flowers, fruits, stems and developing leaves. Leaves are particularly interesting in the translocation process because they are sinks when they are young and become sources later when they are about half-grown.

Carbohydrates are simply Carbon, Hydrogen and Oxygen molecules, i.e. simple sugars.

So let's say for sake of silliness that flushing can trigger translocation which must be a real threat for rice plants, where are the chlorophyll molecules going? They can't be destroyed because they're elements which cannot be destroyed or changed unless of course we're talking about cannabis which has special properties that negate almost every law of botany, biology, chemistry, physics imaginable.

My simple question is this: once this special water deconstructs the chlorophyll compound where do the ions go? Into thin air? That would be difficult since Magnesium is a metallic element but again we have to suspend even common sense to shore-up the flushing argument so who knows? Perhaps a special air canopy is created from flushing which can move magnesium around at will.

Even if water could deconstruct and force translocation of elements doesn't that defeat the purpose in the first place which is claimed that flushing will remove the nasties causing us to not have dank! If the mature leaves are the repository the why would you want to move these ions to the buds which you plan on consuming?

It's difficult to write this stuff without falling out of my chair with laughter. The argument fails on every level - even common sense.

Fire away! I'm wearing stainless-steel Fruit of the Loom briefs - I can take it!
 

Shagga

Member
The plants stores it's nutrients down in the root system at night and then starts moving it up the plant what's lights trn on "photosynthesis" if your plant is let's say 64 day flowerer in optimal conditions .. on day 50 if you are feeding at 2.0 ec for example start gradually lowering the ec over the two weeks on the day before harvest I'm at 0.5 -0.4 ec but I am not flushing the medium thosee 2 later week are critical for weight and bud maturity nurture the Damn thing.. then like I said persay a 64 day flower once u reach day 60 start checking those thrichromes all over the plant not just in one area and when u are going to harvest chop her down before lights on so it doesn't start photosynthesising ... honestly flushing at end of flowering is pointless keep a proper ph and a gradual increase on e.c don't over do fert and ull never have a problem withsalt buildup in your medium and that in my opinion is the only reason you should flush
What is happening in the plant during the last two weeks of growth? When I check... I see lots of different names for this period - aggressive bloom, bud swell, and etc. But no matter what it is called, this is a critical period in the development of an MJ plant. Smells develop and mature. Buds are filling with resin. And the plant is undergoing one final major push to produce. So the plant is growing in many ways, just not in physical size.

Why would anyone take away nutrients when the plant most needs them? Doesn't make sense. Ok... I know the argument, the plant is merely moving nutrients from one part to the other. Good argument, but unfortunately it just isn't true in all cases.

For our purposes, there are two classes of nutrients. Mobile nutrients and immobile nutrients. Mobile nutrients are ones that we know the plant can move around inside of itself. The immobile nutrients can only come from the roots - they can not be moved once inside the plant. There are scientific reasons behind this having to do with xylem and phloem that I will skip. If you are interested in the science behind this, let me know and I can give you some pointers.

So which are mobile nutrients? The list is as follows: N, P, K, Mg and S. The other nutrients which are immobile are Ca, Fe, Zn, Mo, B, Cu, and Mn. If you need a layman's thought process to justify this - the mobile nutrients are the ones that cause problems on older growth (they are stolen from old growth to support new growth... thus they are obviously mobile within the plant). The immobile nutrients affect the whole plant at once - and most especially in the areas of growth (the growth shoots or apical meristems) which is at the outside edges of the plant.

The typical recommendation for flushing goes something like this: "For the last two weeks of the flowering cycle, remove all nutrients and use R/O water." Some will suggest a flushing solution which is mostly sugar. In either case, you are severely limiting all nutrients - not just the mobile ones.

So why is this a critical error?

You need to think about what happens when a plant does not have calcium... cell division comes to a halt. This results in "stunted" growth if it occurs during the normal plants life cycle... something we would fight agressively... but we accept it as part of the final flush? Doesn't make sense.

Boron is also essential for new plant growth. Without Boron - you won't get good bud development.

I could go on and point out what each of these immobile nutrients do. But it would be better for you to go and find a source, read about the effects each of these nutrients has, and then decide if that is something that you want stopped during the last two weeks of flower.

The final thing I want to point out is plant stress. You are going from a high nutrient environment to one where you have pretty close to zero. This will obviously put stress on the plant. Think how long it would take for your body to adjust between say... a high fat diet and one based on water. You are not just going to continue in life like nothing happened... The same sort of thing happens to the plant. And plant stress reduces yield.

So I think that I have made my point that flushing is bad due to the science behind growth. But what does actual growing experience tell me?

It is a fact that flushing restricts yield. Don't care the type of MJ plant. I started with two week flushes... then moved to one week to limit the amount of yield loss... and have now moved to 3 days on my latest grow. I can't tell any difference in taste between each of these time frames. And yes, I have had overlapping yields of the same plants genetics - so that I can actually tell.

That's not mine btw but very explanatory
Thank you for that post,, great info!
 
I always flush my weed as I find it would never burn properly. I follow advanced nutrients feeding and flush my last two weeks. I am happy with the results I am getting and the flavour. My friend is gh and he grows in pro mix never flushes never stops feeding and his weed smells like burnt fugging hair.
 

chuck estevez

Well-Known Member
I always flush my weed as I find it would never burn properly. I follow advanced nutrients feeding and flush my last two weeks. I am happy with the results I am getting and the flavour. My friend is gh and he grows in pro mix never flushes never stops feeding and his weed smells like burnt fugging hair.
2 noobs who are both doing it wrong. then blaming it on not flushing, typical.
 
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