Starting a collective

Mithrandir420 said:

It's all a business, man. EVERY non profit on the planet is still a business. They have to be.

You're your own collective, The Reef Bongwell Collective. You have paper work for all your patients. Your a member of another collective, "The Mithrandir Collective and Sunday Gospel Hour" where you donate your excess meds for the cost of producing them. You only need your paperwork that's hanging outside of your legal grow if you get raided. The Mithrandir Collective only need their paperwork (where you are listed as a patient/member) if they get raided.

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I shoulda been more clear... I guess I meant a for profit business, not a collective. Obviously you gotta cover expenses either way. What you describe there ^^^^ is what i've heard is the way to do it. You do need one other piece of paper that I've heard almost no one does but the same guys lawyer says is very necessary -- an authorization letter for transportation of the product between your collective and theirs.

Dan Kone said:

A collective and a business can be the same thing. Non-profit doesn't mean you can't earn income. It means the corporation has to have a surplus of zero at the end of the fiscal year or justify that surplus.



Growing for multiple people you are supposed to be a collective. Transporting is a grey area. Most cops will arrest you for transporting no matter what, but a lot of people get off in court. Technically you're supposed to be able to transport to a collective but for all practical purposes it's still something you're going to get arrested for and then it'll be a coin flip in court.



There are no laws on the books for collective to collective trade. That's a grey area too.

The state laws are designed to protect dispensaries and screw over growers or people who make the products that go in the dispensaries. Trade that happens outside of a dispensary is still up for interpretation and kind of depends on the cop and/or the jury.

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See above on transportation... this guy says almost no one does the transportation authorizations, but they're what you need to CYA. As for collective - collective trade, one collective has to be a member of the other, so in Mith's example my Reef Bongwell Collective would be a member of his Mithandrir collective and vice versa. There's supposed to be a limit on how many you can do this with (ie you can't just join 10,000 collectives to sell your stuff to and they aren't supposed to let too many collectives be their providers as well) ideally.

phishtank said:

Reef...It all comes down to how good your lawyer is man. Even though mmj is legal...it all comes down to the cops you run into. My one experience with my grow and riverside sheriffs department was very pleasant. They actually gave me a few suggestions on how to keep it from being as obvious so my neighbors wouldnt know what was going on.

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Yes definitely depends on the cops... even in a 'safe' county you can get an overzealous cop after you. And pushing limits not following rules will still get you in trouble even in the safer areas I know... but it does seem if you stick to the established rules as much as possible and have a decent lawyer, you will almost always get off if they bust you... of course that doesn't really save you from being arrested or them cutting down all your plants if they just decide to anyway because they're dicks

Dan Kone said:

And what county you live in. If you get busted in SF or Oakland it's not likely to be a big deal, if you get busted in somewhere like Orange County, you're pretty fucked. Oakland juries likely won't convict for most non-violent mj offenses, so they don't even bother pressing charges, but in OC, yeah, they will.

Probably saving yourself a lot of problems there anyways. The market is shit now and unless you're well established breaking into the business is really difficult.

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Even if you've got that super, superdank? Seems like the market may get a bit less flooded with so many of the dispensaries closing

And this is why I always say Grow like it's 1995!

The market may be flooded for a little bit if all the dispensaries close, but many will stop growing. Many will not have a place to sell as they have no contacts on the black market.

Dan I'm back down in riverside county...although im thinking about heading north in the very near future. Still don't know where or what i'm doing. I've been here for almost 2 months and I havent even so much as got a clone or seed. Kinda slackin until i figure out what I wanna do.

ReefBongwell said:

I shoulda been more clear... I guess I meant a for profit business, not a collective.

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The difference between a non-profit and a for profit has nothing to do with how much money you take it. It has to do with how your business is structured.

See above on transportation... this guy says almost no one does the transportation authorizations, but they're what you need to CYA.

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I know one dispensary that does this out of the hundreds I've been to. It's a liability for dispensaries to do that, and since they don't give a shit, they don't. I have had a lawyer offer to draw me up authorization paperwork. My products have become rather popular recently and I think I'm now in a position where I can force dispensaries to sign. I probably should get on that right away.

As for collective - collective trade, one collective has to be a member of the other, so in Mith's example my Reef Bongwell Collective would be a member of his Mithandrir collective and vice versa. There's supposed to be a limit on how many you can do this with (ie you can't just join 10,000 collectives to sell your stuff to and they aren't supposed to let too many collectives be their providers as well) ideally.

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I'm not so sure about that. I've never read any law that limits this.

Yes definitely depends on the cops... even in a 'safe' county you can get an overzealous cop after you. And pushing limits not following rules will still get you in trouble even in the safer areas I know... but it does seem if you stick to the established rules as much as possible and have a decent lawyer, you will almost always get off if they bust you... of course that doesn't really save you from being arrested or them cutting down all your plants if they just decide to anyway because they're dicks

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Yep. Even if you end up getting off it's still going to be really expensive and fuck your life up. That's a pretty decent punishment right there. It'll likely destroy your business for 6 months to a year, and getting back into it after you've been out of the game for a while is very difficult. I took a vacation for a month and all the regular clubs I've been working with for years acted like they forgot they knew me. Took me 2-3 months just to build everything back up. If you're not making regular drops, people stop asking for your products and you become expendable.

Even if you've got that super, superdank? Seems like the market may get a bit less flooded with so many of the dispensaries closing

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Most clubs now grow a lot of their own buds. A club would rather sell their 15% in house bud than your 25% superdank because there is a bigger profit margin in it. Yeah, you can still get rid of superdank, but even then it has to be the right superdank. It has to be something in demand that clubs aren't growing in house. That generally translates into growing something super low yielding.

You can bring clubs Tahoe OG all day and they'll take it. But can you make enough money to pay your bills doing that? You better be growing a lot of it. Generally if you're just breaking into vending you don't have a big enough grow to pull that off. If you're starting off by running two lights of Tahoe, you're not going to get paid enough to pay your bills + expand your system to where that becomes a reasonable way to make a living. You kind of already have to start off with a 12 light system. If you're not a commercial grower, just a hobbiest grower running a couple lights and you immediately jump up from 2 lights to 12, you're more likely to fail than succeed. Growing for personal use and growing dispensary grade bud are two completely different things and it takes you a while to get it right. Having success your first run on a larger scale is very unlikely.

There is a lot more to it than just growing awesome bud. The failure rate for people breaking into the business is over 95%. There aren't a whole lot of familiar faces left from when I broke into the business. I know 1 other guy who was around when I started who's still in the business. And it's much harder now. It's not impossible, but you have to be really dedicated and treat it like a real full time job. It's a hard way to make an easy living.

phishtank said:

Dan I'm back down in riverside county...although im thinking about heading north in the very near future. Still don't know where or what i'm doing. I've been here for almost 2 months and I havent even so much as got a clone or seed. Kinda slackin until i figure out what I wanna do.

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Go elsewhere to get your genetics, then bring them back to riverside. Riverside is the easiest place to vend in the state.

Dan Kone said:

The difference between a non-profit and a for profit has nothing to do with how much money you take it. It has to do with how your business is structured.

I know one dispensary that does this out of the hundreds I've been to. It's a liability for dispensaries to do that, and since they don't give a shit, they don't. I have had a lawyer offer to draw me up authorization paperwork. My products have become rather popular recently and I think I'm now in a position where I can force dispensaries to sign. I probably should get on that right away.

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That's exactly the point of having your own collective. You do your own transporation slips -- because the other collective is almost surely not gonna do'em for you At least that's what the guy who went to the expensive mj lawyer told me

I'm not so sure about that. I've never read any law that limits this.

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I don't think it's in the law, I think it's more in the interpetation and what the lawyer told him would be appropriate... i think the feeling is the more other collectives you had as members maybe they think you're more likely to be diverting bud outside of the collective.. that type of thing.. ie, more likely to draw attention/prosecution, but i don't think there's any specific limit

Yep. Even if you end up getting off it's still going to be really expensive and fuck your life up. That's a pretty decent punishment right there. It'll likely destroy your business for 6 months to a year, and getting back into it after you've been out of the game for a while is very difficult. I took a vacation for a month and all the regular clubs I've been working with for years acted like they forgot they knew me. Took me 2-3 months just to build everything back up. If you're not making regular drops, people stop asking for your products and you become expendable.

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Makes sense

Most clubs now grow a lot of their own buds. A club would rather sell their 15% in house bud than your 25% superdank because there is a bigger profit margin in it. Yeah, you can still get rid of superdank, but even then it has to be the right superdank. It has to be something in demand that clubs aren't growing in house. That generally translates into growing something super low yielding.

You can bring clubs Tahoe OG all day and they'll take it. But can you make enough money to pay your bills doing that? You better be growing a lot of it. Generally if you're just breaking into vending you don't have a big enough grow to pull that off. If you're starting off by running two lights of Tahoe, you're not going to get paid enough to pay your bills + expand your system to where that becomes a reasonable way to make a living. You kind of already have to start off with a 12 light system. If you're not a commercial grower, just a hobbiest grower running a couple lights and you immediately jump up from 2 lights to 12, you're more likely to fail than succeed. Growing for personal use and growing dispensary grade bud are two completely different things and it takes you a while to get it right. Having success your first run on a larger scale is very unlikely.

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I've never grown Tahoe OG...guess I should get some for practice Challenge accepted I'm working on scaling my grow up one run at a time and building up. This run I'm trimming now I'm hoping for 3-4lbs... definitely my biggest harvest to date/this year. i know that's small compared to others doing it up right for collectives

There is a lot more to it than just growing awesome bud. The failure rate for people breaking into the business is over 95%. There aren't a whole lot of familiar faces left from when I broke into the business. I know 1 other guy who was around when I started who's still in the business. And it's much harder now. It's not impossible, but you have to be really dedicated and treat it like a real full time job. It's a hard way to make an easy living.

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I have a feeling the dedication/job is what gets a lot of people. Also not everyone can hit the level of bringing in the high end stuff places want. I'm not really worried about doing what it takes that's not a problem for me I'm just finishing up a double 12/12 shift on top of a full time job. Dealing is the easy way to make the money, not growing that's for sure I prefer growing though.

Go elsewhere to get your genetics, then bring them back to riverside. Riverside is the easiest place to vend in the state.

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Riverside county is actually where my friend lives and wants me to move Makes me feel a bit better to hear you say that in case that's where I end up -- why is it the easiest place btw? Aren't they shutting down dispensaries there? My friend currently works with a delivery service there. I didn't really see anything wrong with riverside while I was there before but pretty sure I'd rather live up north of SF -- a lot prettier country

Dan Kone said:

It's a hard way to make an easy living.

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Ain't that the truth.

Dan Kone said:

Go elsewhere to get your genetics, then bring them back to riverside. Riverside is the easiest place to vend in the state.

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I've though about it Dan. I'm eventually going to end up north...hopefully...if i can get into UC berkeley in two years.

ReefBongwell said:

I have a feeling the dedication/job is what gets a lot of people. Also not everyone can hit the level of bringing in the high end stuff places want. I'm not really worried about doing what it takes that's not a problem for me I'm just finishing up a double 12/12 shift on top of a full time job. Dealing is the easy way to make the money, not growing that's for sure I prefer growing though.

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Yep. Most people get into growing for "easy cash" not to have a job. If you think of it that way you've already lost the game.

Riverside county is actually where my friend lives and wants me to move Makes me feel a bit better to hear you say that in case that's where I end up -- why is it the easiest place btw?

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I know several people who make the trip from NorCal. Most money, lowest quality standards.

Aren't they shutting down dispensaries there? My friend currently works with a delivery service there. I didn't really see anything wrong with riverside while I was there before but pretty sure I'd rather live up north of SF -- a lot prettier country

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No idea. I don't go down there myself. But I do know the further north you go, the more difficult things get. The exception being if you're doing big outdoor grows and selling it to exporters. But I don't involve myself with that sort of thing so I don't know much about it. Very risky stuff. I prefer club vending. Have to deal with a lot more assholes, but you sleep easier at night.

Go To The Bay Area! Yee

Sometimes I wonder if the best place to be in this business is a pollen chucking breeder like Swerve and Subcool. Get some elite females, luck into or pay for a good male, and market and hype the shit out of yourself. Seems to work for both Swerve and Subcool. Good marketing > good bud. Hell I have some elite clone onlys. All I need is a male and money for marketing.

Stop it Dan Kone. You're depressing me. This business is such a pain in the ass, but it beats working a help desk.

Breeding actually sounds pretty fun.

Mithrandir420 said:

Sometimes I wonder if the best place to be in this business is a pollen chucking breeder like Swerve and Subcool. Get some elite females, luck into or pay for a good male, and market and hype the shit out of yourself. Seems to work for both Swerve and Subcool. Good marketing > good bud. Hell I have some elite clone onlys. All I need is a male and money for marketing.

Stop it Dan Kone. You're depressing me. This business is such a pain in the ass, but it beats working a help desk.

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If you're a good networker, you can breed in Cali. It's really easy. There are tons of legit breeders out there who don't sell shit for seeds but have amazing seeds. You just buy a bunch of non-feminized seeds and pick a male. Then you just chuck pollen at a mix of the latest fad strains and sell some seeds. Or better yet, get a fad strain to herm and make a grip selling feminized seeds. It's all about marketing and has nothing to do with how good of a breeder you are. I think Sub and Swerve have proven that. All you have to do to have a trusted brand is advertise all over.

It the same in every business... marketing marketing marketing. I have a friend who runs a side business making crappy costumes for larpers and ren fair people. She smokes so we're hanging out one night bullshiting an she tells me she broke a million in sales. She goes on about marketing. She even talls me flat out that there are people making waaay better stuff but since they don't market themselves, they never make any sales. If it wasn't so hot out here I would consider taking out ads in Culture mag, etc. and market my product as a brand. MIthrandirs Olde Tyme Pipe Weed Company or some such name. Big eye catching ad. People walking into their local disp and asking for my product by name.

IDK... I feel like I am at a point where I need to decide on what's going to take me up to the next level. Where I am going to go from here, and how to be poised for recreational legalization, which I think will arrive no later than 2016. Perhaps as a breeder, perhaps a storefront, depending on how Colo and Wash do in the next couple of years.

duplicate below

Business is definitely like 80% marketing. I work remotely for an internet company and without marketing we wouldn't be where we are...considering many more people can out pay us....but people find us easier than they do the others.

I've actually been wanting to get into the e-cigarette business. It's starting to take off out here. And holy shit companies are overcharging like crazy so far here.

Yup marketing's where it's at... it doesn't matter what your product is if you don't know how to market it (unless you have someone no one else can make and everyone wants -- pretty rare)