Starting a new grow, have $5500, please help.

Hello all. I am going to be starting a grow at the beginning of next month and was looking for input and tips. The facts are as follows.

I grew for a couple of years but I haven't grown in 6 1/2 years.

Budget is a max of $5500, closer to $5000 would be great.

I have no space issues. The grow will be in a BIG bedroom. 14x25ft. I would like to do it in two rooms inside the bedroom so that there are no 12 hour spikes. There is also another room that will be used for veg.

I have a wattage limit. It is 4200. I would like to use a 1000w MH for veg. That leaves 3200 for flowering. I was thinking 1600w in each room. One 1000w hps and one 600w hps.

This first grow will be started from 40 feminized seeds, this is loose, maybe 35 feminized and 10 regular. I have budgeted $600 for seeds. Of that $600 I have already spent $315 on 10 each of feminized Super Lemon Haze and The Church. Open to suggestions for the other strains. I was thinking True Blueberry from DJ Short and maybe Big Bang from Green House. I do have criteria for strains. They need to yield higher than average and they need to have a flowering time of no longer than 9 weeks.

I was thinking of using sunshine mix and the lucas method of fertilizing. Hand watering to get a feel for the plants again and to save a little on automation costs. Again, open to suggestions.

I have worked out the cost of the light system above at $1800 shipped. This includes ballasts and 4 air cooled hoods, one parabolic hood, and the bulbs. This does not include an exhaust system.

For the ventilation system I was thinking one 400cfm phresh filter charcoal filter per room, one intake fan for each flowering room, and one 747 cfm vortex exhaust fan for the two rooms. One wall oscillator per room, and 1 oscillator for the veg plants. I'm guessing $100 for ducting. The total on that is $850.

For the grow medium I was thinking sunshine mix. The grow medium and grow bags plus all of the things to grow 140 clones at a time if needed are included with this total. I don't know what style of growing I will use once I get a good cycle going will be. This works out to $700.

I have a list of misc. stuff.
Nutrients-$250 for 5 gallons of floranova bloom. I'm open to other ideas, including using the flora system, just micro and bloom.
PH/PPM/EC meter-$200
timers, spray bottles, trash cans, water pump, water wand, locks for doors, thermomter and humidity gauge. Including the nutes and PH this works out to $700.

So, I still need the building materials for the rooms, hardware for the rooms, exhaust system for the air cooled lights, and anything I have forgotten.

The total of everything I have listed so far is $4650. Please, if you can think of something I have forgotten let me know. Also, I am very interested in the ideas of experienced growers. What size rooms would be best? How big should I grow these first plants? I am going to hold back the 8 strongest looking for mothers. So I would think I will be flowering between 20 and 30 plants this first go round. What am I forgetting?

Thanks

ok let's exclude the cost of seed and light... fans and ducts for 850 is way too much. now the soil and bags for 700 is fucking crazy. 5gal ferts for 250 is so frickin expensive, and trash cans pumps locks... for 700 is mind blowing! sorry for being so blunt, ive been drinking a bit. you still need climate control, dehumidifier is must for later flowering, and some pest control too and wat about reflective walls, paint panda film or wat.... theres always one more thing to get. if i had 5000 to spend on a 4200w grow, i would do a full blown automated hydro setup and still have spare money. buying from hydro shops is a ripoff. their prices are intimidating to me and i always hope these thieves go broke but with the help of many like yourself, they flourish. would like to see pics of setup once you're running...

JFC...

I just lost such a huge write up...

DAMN!!!

I'll come back I'm sorry. I'm upset right now. You can do it. 2000w per room. start slow.

I shopped around for over a week, probably 20-30 hours. I would love to hear some advice on what I should be looking at instead of what I have found. These prices include shipping, or I am picking them up locally.

For the soil I found 3.8 cf of sunshine, 1 for $50 in town. Each bag will do 10 5 gal pots or 50 gallons. Conservatively I will be filling 35 5 gals and 8 10 gals. 255 gallons of medium, about 5 bags. 5x$50=$250. Grow bags I figured would be $60 conservatively, including 10 10 gal pots, 40 5 gal bags, and 200 1 gal bags. I understand that I will probably need less than this, but going over the budget is not possible. I have to include everything, so I estimated high just a little. I figure no more that 10% overestimation. I also need rooting gel, rootech-$30;cloning heat mats and thermostats, $150;rockwool, flats, flourescent fixtures and tubes and 10 gallon pots is $180. so,

$250+$60+$30+$150+$180=$670

Fans and ducting

2 charcoal filters (phresh filter 6"x16")=$300
1 exhaust fan-vortex 8" 747cfm inline=$190
2 intake fans-ecoplus 265cfm=$160
2 wall oscillators=$100
1 floor oscillator=$25
Ducting=$75-$100?

Total=$850-$875

As for ferts, I don't know how much I will use, but the floranova bloom in 2.5 gallons is $125 cheapest I can find. I figure I will need at least two. So, two of the 2.5 gal will be $250.

As for the misc. $700, that includes $250 in nutrients and $200 on the industry standard ph/ppm/ec meter. The same one I used in all my labs in college. That is a no change item for me. I want reliable and built to last. The nutrients are up for talk. So the $250 is for a couple trash cans for mixing nutes, a pump and wand, timers, spray bottles, a good thermometer and humidity guage, and locks, plus a little for any little stuff I am missing.

I have an A/C for in the rooms and it is also a dehumidifier. That is already purchased and has nothing to do with the total amount.

So, the total cost of the room at $4650 doesn't include building the room or the paint/reflective surfaces to be used. I will still need to spend the cash for building two sealed rooms for the lights, and extension cords, small stuff I have forgot etc.

As for buying from hydro shops; the only things that are coming from my local shop are the sunshine mix (couldn't find it cheaper online, as shipping was adding up fast), and the cloning gel.

I do appreciate the response, but something a little more constructive would be nice. I don't know what information I left out, but feel free to ask me any specifics. I tried to lay out the equipment costs earlier, maybe they were a little vague.

I look forward to your thoughts Snow. thanks

sounds like a perrty cool setup

An Idea:

Have you considered a sealed room? You can pick up a ductless mini split AC unit for $800.00 http://www.bestpriceminisplits.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=BPMS&Category_Code=24000btu You could then forget the intake fans, downsize the exhaust fans to just cool the lights. This will help with you humidity big time. You may still need a dehumidifier, but a $200.00 70 pint unit will do it. The advantage is perfect temp and humidity, no carbon filters needed (or a very small one to take the edge off the smell inside the room), and you'll be perfectly settup for CO2, which you will need if you go sealed. I agree with Zem in that you're heavy on some items. I think with the savings you could pull off a sealed room with CO2. Maybe hold off on more seeds until you get up and going. Prior to putting the Lemon Haze and Church into Bloom take some cuttings for crop 2.

People tend to concentrate on nutrients and lighting (both important), but overlook daytime and nightime temp and humidity. These should be dialed in first. Lights can always be added easily, nutes can be changed, but changing atmosphere controlling midstream can present challenges. Not to mention, discovering your odor control isn't up to snuff at week 6 can present problems that don't go away! Maybe spare little expense getting the air right, and see what you have left over for lighting. After all, just four 600 watt lights is still a nice size flower room to get started. Especially if the atmosphere is spot on perfect.

I know this is a big change. Do some research on sealed rooms and see if it's right for you. I grew for 15 years with an exhaust settup until going sealed 5 years ago. I wish I had switched much earlier.

ok well feel free to pay watever, still it sounds like way way too much. good thing in mj is that its a pricey crop so its worth any investment. anyway, we will try help out as much as possible. one thing i see in list is the intake fans, well as long as you have holes for passive intake, exhaust does the job of pulling air in. adding the fans your purchasing for intake as exhaust you will be venting much better than if you use intake and exhaust fans. imo it's a long shot to start that big, i would surely go slower if i were you, grow under 1k then add up. and dude, just so that you know, start working out and training because you will need to be fit to be able to hand water and care for all this soil grow lol also prepare your life for the coming changes, you will be working long hours in there probably will look like a cave man too... why not hydro??? i'm sorry man but i don't see this going the right direction, i see problems ahead and just investing without proper knowledge is not going to grow your plants

I appreciate the responses. If you guys think I am spending too much, could you point me in the direction of cheaper?

A couple of questions

Why should I start smaller? I figure the first crop is just to get mothers going and flower what I have left over from the initial seeds.

Why is what I have priced too much? Do you guys know of cheaper alternatives?

Also, this setup is hydro, just in a soiless medium like sunshine mix. I have no intention of doing any soil growing.

To Zem-I also have a partner to split the work. I will not be growing soil, just hand watering a soiless medium with general hydroponics nutes. I like the note of using just the exhaust fan for the intake too, I am just worried about smell. Which is why I am investing in two beefy charcoal filters, but if there is negative pressure at all times in the grow rooms I don't see this as a problem, thanks, that saves $160. I know the charcoal filters are more than I need for the size of the rooms, I just want to be sure nothing is smelling.

Collective Gardner- No offense, I am interested in a simple garden at first. I am going to NOT use CO2 the first run. I just want to keep things as simple as possible to watch for problems. I understand that you like the sealed setup. I would eventually like to go that route, but at the moment I want to keep things simple. The environment for these plants will be monitored very closely and adding a humidifier would be easy. I already have a/c's and dehumidifiers.

The reason I was spending so much on air control was to be able to monitor everything and fix problems fast.

Both of you guys said I should save money. How?

One more for Zem, why is this too big to start with? My goal of this first crop is to get some healthy mothers and to flower the rest for the biggest yield possible for the lights I am using. I am willing to veg these first ones longer, I would like to do a SOG grow after the first crop, maybe. Open to ideas.

Also, just for clarification, I am not a new grower. I have close to 3 years growing a continuous cycle in a soiless medium under 1600w of light with decent results. I know what deficiencies and fertilizer burn look like. I am looking for ideas on room size, what nutrients to use, genetics, if i am paying too much (please offer suggestions if you think I am overspending), also, what style to grow in, i'm leaning toward SOG. thanks

SOG is great but needs accurate skills and efficiency. you need to have perfectly healthy moms and timing to take clones to make them root at high rates then flower them the day you harvest the flowering room so no veg time lost. 3 years growing is good experience. i thought you were new thats why i said you better go smaller. i did SOG for years and perfected it then switched methods because max yield over time is not my goal anymore. but when i did it, every decision i made was based on the best method to do it. i chose to do it in DWC for the simple fact that there is minimum medium to process between grows so it took minimum time and work since in SOG you harvest often. on your scale of grow it may be a fuss to do DWC however, because there will be way too many airstones all over and too big water volumes to keep res temps perfect and things can go bad easily. but i cannot imagine any worst nightmare than having to handwater a SOG grow. if it was me, i would get some grorock and totes with control res and do flood/drain system with timer and pump. this will make life much easier and you will not have to buy new medium every grow, just recycle the rocks. having an easy way to recycle rocks is key however. with experience i have found a great way, i just remove the rootballs and empty all rocks in bags and remove as much roots as i can while doing this. then i clean the tote and refill it with rocks, again removing roots as i do that. surely there will be many root fragments in medium, so i flood the for few hours with high dose of 35%H2O2(nasty stuff) to break down dead roots then flush couple times with fresh water and i'm ready to transplant. i never ever have to buy new medium, and i never have to carry medium in/out of my growroom. i love it self contained and recyclable if you do such a system, i am sure you can with your budget and work will be more concentrated on plant care rather than physical work, it will mostly be checking and maintaining the res and making even canopy etc...
all that said, have you looked into vertical setups? they can max your yields tremendously but need even more skills. i saw an awesome vertical setup somewhere here on RIU will try to find it. just check them out to have an idea since max yield is your goal. hope this helps

i don't know how i found it, damn lucky... there it is
https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/149998-heaths-flooded-tube-vertical.html
no need to copy it exactly, for instance i don't like the constantly flooded pipes but all in all the system is awesome and gives double or more in yield than regular light with reflector but is damn complicated and pricey to get going but IMO worth every penny

Thanks Zem, you have provided some good input. My first posts were legthy, but I wanted to give as much info as is needed. I would add that I am looking for a good method of growing 20-30 plants under 3200w of light. What size room etc. As for the first cycle from clones I am still undecided about method. I was thinking SOG. If this were the case, I will probably look into an auto feed system. Money for that is not included in this first cycle. The first cycle I would like to keep simple, and would like input on what the best yield method would be for 20-30 under 3200w. The second cycle would be from mothers with no plant limits and auto feed is not an issue. Sorry if I was confusing.

Tp be clear. I am looking for suggestions on equipment, and for a method for the first crop. Ideas for size of rooms with thought to the rooms being converted to another method later. If you have an idea for best way to optimize high yield on low number of plants for first harvest, and use the same size rooms for subsequential harvests that would be great.

As for vertical setups, I am very interested in this. I have been reading about it and it sounds like it would fit my needs well AFTER the first crop from extra plants not becoming mothers. I guess I should specify. I am looking for a good method to grow the first 20-30. I am looking for ideas about my pricing (with suggestions, not just saying it is too much), anything I am forgetting, nutrient selection, and grow medium for the first crop only. I absolutely welcome any comment about where to go from clones after the first crop. Vert SOG, SCROG, topping, etc. I realize there is no one way and mastering one method is worth more than using the newest nutes, experimenting with too much shit, fancy shit, etc. I just would like to maximize my first grow back, and get feedback for future cycles.

Zem, thanks for the link. Lots of good info in there.

anyone care to weigh in on anything?

My vote is for a vertical system as pictured above. Maybe not the same thing... but similar.

That was what I'd typed up last night.

I think you could run two 1000w bulbs in two 14x12 sized chambers. Each bulb, placed vertically in a cool tube centered in a vertical coliseum hydro system. I like the systems that look more like "trees."

So imagine Y-shaped PVC joints, about 4" around in the connectors. You stack these together maybe five tall. And you get a:

|/
|/
|/
|/
|/

Kind of structure.
So then you make a bunch of those, and connect the bottom of each tree to a contained ducting system. Use a reservoir for that to drain into, and from the reservoir run like a 1800gph pump to feed Aeroponic misters running down each tree feeding the root systems that hang down into it.

The finished product would resemble this but made from 4" PVC joints, and a reservoir on the ground (so it'd need to be a foot or two off the ground):


With something like this you can grow 100 medium sized plants aeroponically in a 5x5 footprint. Figure you could do two of these in one room. Then in the other room you can run your peat system, or maybe an organic soil system, and used Horizontal bulbs in large reflectors. That would create some diversity with your finished product which everyone would enjoy.

You could also try an Ebb system like one of these http://www.igrowhydro.com/detail.aspx?ID=138
Or a Drip system like one of these http://www.igrowhydro.com/Waterfarm-8-Pack-Kit.aspx

I think you could run 4 different systems to be honest one each with a 1000w bulb.

By offsetting your timers you this will allow you to run 2000w worth of lighting, plus all your ventilation and pump needs, with your veg room, without ever flipping the breaker. When one room turns off, the other room turns on, and you're basically running 2500w 24/7 for flowering (after ventilation, circulation, and etc), and another 1500w for the veg tent (at least), and you're solid beneath your goals.

I'd say you could run four 600w systems in each room, but that adds up to a huge cost, and the 1000w ballasts aren't all that much more expensive. When you look at the Vertical setup, the 1000w bulbs will probably be your best choice for growing the fattest nugs despite being a little less efficient in the lumen/watt department.

wormsgetsold said:

I appreciate the responses. If you guys think I am spending too much, could you point me in the direction of cheaper?

Click to expand...

Lots of good input here, and other than what others point out I can't think of anything you're overlooking.

On the cost, it really adds up. There's also many different brands. For instance, your vent fans could be replaced by cheaper active air or similar budget brands, but at the same time, the vortex are very nice, and probably worth the expense. Anyway, you could probably DIY and go budget and save some cash, but that's not to say the cheaper you get the better value... I think your budget is rather realistic, and if you do your research you should be able to end up with a killer setup. The only thing I would add is to maybe set aside $500 or so for anything you overlooked. There will be small expenses that will come up in the process of growing, and all those little things add up over time

Thanks everyone. The plan is to have two 5x5 vertical setups in each room. Use 4 600w sunpulse lamps. Grow Journal:
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/404132-600w-x-4-indoor-grow.html

Thanks snow crash, I haven't settled on exactly how to construct the vertical setup yet, but thanks for the idea.

I would suggest rethinking this project. You can do it for way less with a little reserch. If you just wana blow 5,000$ give it to me I will kick ing you balls really hard then get system set up for like 2,000$.


All joke's aside people have been posting DIY stuff that is just as good as the top of line store bought stuff for like 90% things like Air filters inline fans hydro systems. Shit use the complete fox farm system with OF TB BB GB and the soluables for way less then your current soil and nut budget. For liteing and bulbs check out www.growannex.com they ship world wide with Fedex and thier shit is new top of the line stuff for 50-90% off retail. Example is a 250 watt self ballested HPS with bulb 130$ delivered to your home in 5-7 days. I think the 400watter was like 175$ with bulb.


Check the DIY section here.

1gamma45 said:

I would suggest rethinking this project. You can do it for way less with a little reserch. If you just wana blow 5,000$ give it to me I will kick ing you balls really hard then get system set up for like 2,000$.


All joke's aside people have been posting DIY stuff that is just as good as the top of line store bought stuff for like 90% things like Air filters inline fans hydro systems. Shit use the complete fox farm system with OF TB BB GB and the soluables for way less then your current soil and nut budget. For liteing and bulbs check out www.growannex.com they ship world wide with Fedex and thier shit is new top of the line stuff for 50-90% off retail. Example is a 250 watt self ballested HPS with bulb 130$ delivered to your home in 5-7 days. I think the 400watter was like 175$ with bulb.


Check the DIY section here.

Click to expand...

I am ordering all the lights from grow annex. It is $1400 just for lights and bulbs. $650 for seeds. that is $2050 already. We still need to build two rooms and buy all the hydroton, buckets, pumps, fans, and little stuff. Check out my grow journal. More details in there. The materials have changed a bit since this post was started.

600w x 4 indoor grow. 4 strains.