STAY AWAY FROM LED's!!!!!

onewize1 · Oct 3, 2011

this is a nocal pure kush strictly under a 90 w and 2 flourescents dangling. this is nt the harvest pic and allthebuds were dense exept the bottom 1/3 of the plant and i got a little over anounce like35 40 grams..... so i wont say they arent good..... o in addition i treated this plant like shit for got to water a few times and barely gave it nutes prolly 4 times during the whole cycle of advanced nutrients.

if u look behind this purekush bush you can see the cabinet that houses the 90 w and two . flouros and nothat bush was grown with a 250w hpswith fuller spectrum.
i wouldnt spend the money on one of these again but i wont say they are shit either. cg is right when it comes to a grow that size with a DEMAND. the only thing it would really be solving for him is a low elecric bill. this plant had plenty of room o grow but i would imagine a sog would work too. if u have the money to experiment do it and share.

virulient · Oct 3, 2011

puffenuff said:
See, you expect me to compare 180w to your 4,000...it simply can't be done. Obviously you're going to have more dense undergrowth. I'm done here. You guys can all wait until everyone else says it's ok to grow with leds. Don't be a pioneer.

He never said 180w. Give him any LED panel. Give him a gazillion watt LED panel. If it has 3w diodes, it's going to be the same effect, over a larger area. I don't get it....what's so difficult to understand? It's a good thing I didn't become a teacher. I'd be yelling at kids.

tokenbrownguy · Oct 3, 2011

Ummmm...so what's a noob supposed to think about all of this?...not just the led isseus, but the way people present themselves here at riu? I'm not criticizing anyone or what they believe...I'm just saying, as a noob, this back and forth banter can be quite disheartening and confusing...I hope somebody can set the record straight on leds. Peace!

virulient · Oct 3, 2011

tokenbrownguy said:
Ummmm...so what's a noob supposed to think about all of this?...not just the led isseus, but the way people present themselves here at riu? I'm not criticizing anyone or what they believe...I'm just saying, as a noob, this back and forth banter can be quite disheartening and confusing...I hope somebody can set the record straight on leds. Peace!

What I was trying to get across, before I was attacked, is that LED's are fine for personal grows, micro grows, grow tents, SCRoG, SoG, LED's are great man. Unless you're growing monster sized plants like CG. The back and forth....that's every site. This is one of the most controversial conversations in our industry at the moment. We heat up, we cool down. In the long run, usually, RIU will get you some help and a good, informative, straight answer for any question that has one. Unfortunately, the question "Are LED's awesome-o?" doesn't have a good, informative, straight, and definitive answer. There are many variables, and people feel the need to argue over which variables are valid.

From what it sounds like you are trying to accomplish, LEDs and HID would both work out great. (If you are still going with a small time grow). And the brands I listed are still proven. Even puff would agree on that.

puffenuff · Oct 3, 2011

virulient said:
He never said 180w. Give him any LED panel. Give him a gazillion watt LED panel. If it has 3w diodes, it's going to be the same effect, over a larger area. I don't get it....what's so difficult to understand? It's a good thing I didn't become a teacher. I'd be yelling at kids.

I can't resist you viru for some strange reason. I want to stop...but you keep luring me back haha. No hard feelings, hope you honestly read my love letter to you earlier because I think you'll see my reading comprehension is far above the average pothead's (you said second grade, right?). But really, you just kind of ticked me off by laughing at what I posted and basically writing it off. No harm done though, I might have just misconstrued your tone, that's the thing about the written word, you can't understand the subtleties of conversation as well as with the spoken word.

But about the 180w...He showed me a picture of his 4,000w tray and asked to see a pic of my plants, which I used a 180w, so that's why I say that picture won't help him. He needs to see a picture of a tray with about 2.5-3k watts of led to compare effectively. If done properly, the penetration won't be an issue. What's so hard to understand about that?

I get what you're saying about 3w only having so much penetration power...but I'm saying 3w is plenty to get good penetration. If I'm not having an issue...why are others? I must be doing something differently then and I'll keep doing it. If you still don't care that I'm not having penetration issues, there are other ways that you can fix that besides the scrog I mentioned. How about some spotlights pointed upward underneath to get the lower sites more light? That's one of the great things about leds is that they come in different sizes and their casing designs allow for a modular setup. You can angle the lights however you want. I've even considered ditching the reflective surface on the walls and just installing panels up and down the walls. There's so many things you can do to counter the penetration issues everyone is having with them but me.

Hope there's no bad mojo going forth. Happy growing brother!

tokenbrownguy · Oct 3, 2011

[Ok, thank you for the info. I assumed the combo would be good, but for the amount f heat, price, and perpetual cost of electricity, would i be better suited with a small hos ( another 250, ) or should i make the jump into led? If led, which wattage is preferred for optimal output? Btw, i would never say 'awesome-o' nor would i ask such a question...at least not in dem der, werds.QUOTE=virulient;6397777]What I was trying to get across, before I was attacked, is that LED's are fine for personal grows, micro grows, grow tents, SCRoG, SoG, LED's are great man. Unless you're growing monster sized plants like CG. The back and forth....that's every site. This is one of the most controversial conversations in our industry at the moment. We heat up, we cool down. In the long run, usually, RIU will get you some help and a good, informative, straight answer for any question that has one. Unfortunately, the question "Are LED's awesome-o?" doesn't have a good, informative, straight, and definitive answer. There are many variables, and people feel the need to argue over which variables are valid.

From what it sounds like you are trying to accomplish, LEDs and HID would both work out great. (If you are still going with a small time grow). And the brands I listed are still proven. Even puff would agree on that.[/QUOTE]

virulient · Oct 3, 2011

puffenuff said:
I can't resist you viru for some strange reason. I want to stop...but you keep luring me back haha. No hard feelings, hope you honestly read my love letter to you earlier because I think you'll see my reading comprehension is far above the average pothead's (you said second grade, right?). But really, you just kind of ticked me off by laughing at what I posted and basically writing it off. No harm done though, I might have just misconstrued your tone, that's the thing about the written word, you can't understand the subtleties of conversation as well as with the spoken word.

But about the 180w...He showed me a picture of his 4,000w tray and asked to see a pic of my plants, which I used a 180w, so that's why I say that picture won't help him. He needs to see a picture of a tray with about 2.5-3k watts of led to compare effectively. If done properly, the penetration won't be an issue. What's so hard to understand about that?

I get what you're saying about 3w only having so much penetration power...but I'm saying 3w is plenty to get good penetration. If I'm not having an issue...why are others? I must be doing something differently then and I'll keep doing it. If you still don't care that I'm not having penetration issues, there are other ways that you can fix that besides the scrog I mentioned. How about some spotlights pointed upward underneath to get the lower sites more light? That's one of the great things about leds is that they come in different sizes and their casing designs allow for a modular setup. You can angle the lights however you want. I've even considered ditching the reflective surface on the walls and just installing panels up and down the walls. There's so many things you can do to counter the penetration issues everyone is having with them but me.

Hope there's no bad mojo going forth. Happy growing brother!

See......I love you. LOL. I agree with everything you just said. I think maybe comparing your 180w bud to a 400 or even a 600w for be a little more fair, but I agree the 1000w is tough to compete with, especially 4 of them. But yea, what you're saying about the SCRoG/SoG, that's the message I've been trying to portray all along. LED's are perfect for these conditions, because all you have to do is buy enough lights to cover your entire screen/canopy. I thought we were on the same page all along, then we somehow ended up arguing haha. No hard feelings!

virulient · Oct 3, 2011

tokenbrownguy said:
[Ok, thank you for the info. I assumed the combo would be good, but for the amount f heat, price, and perpetual cost of electricity, would i be better suited with a small hos ( another 250, ) or should i make the jump into led? If led, which wattage is preferred for optimal output? Btw, i would never say 'awesome-o' nor would i ask such a question...at least not in dem der, werds.QUOTE=virulient;6397777]What I was trying to get across, before I was attacked, is that LED's are fine for personal grows, micro grows, grow tents, SCRoG, SoG, LED's are great man. Unless you're growing monster sized plants like CG. The back and forth....that's every site. This is one of the most controversial conversations in our industry at the moment. We heat up, we cool down. In the long run, usually, RIU will get you some help and a good, informative, straight answer for any question that has one. Unfortunately, the question "Are LED's awesome-o?" doesn't have a good, informative, straight, and definitive answer. There are many variables, and people feel the need to argue over which variables are valid.

From what it sounds like you are trying to accomplish, LEDs and HID would both work out great. (If you are still going with a small time grow). And the brands I listed are still proven. Even puff would agree on that.

[/QUOTE]
I know. Cartman IS Awesome-o. Which single handedly makes the expression awesome-o, awesome. :joint:

I just got a new strain lol im baked.

Edit - To answer your question, combining LED and HID can produce very desirable results. It can result in a more full spectrum.

MurshDawg · Oct 4, 2011

tokenbrownguy said:
Ummmm...so what's a noob supposed to think about all of this?...not just the led isseus, but the way people present themselves here at riu? I'm not criticizing anyone or what they believe...I'm just saying, as a noob, this back and forth banter can be quite disheartening and confusing...I hope somebody can set the record straight on leds. Peace!

To set you straight on LEDs the tech is still too new. Furthermore, with the advent of any new technologies yopu typically have three castes of people; the embracers, the adapters, and the dinosaurs... no one wants to be a dinosaur

virulient · Oct 4, 2011

There's a "Like" button. There should be a "Dislike" button. Or a "This person was too lazy to do their own research or testing so they go around repeating hear-say" button. Or just a "Dislike" button, I guess.... :roll:

collective gardener · Oct 4, 2011

puffenuff said:
I can't resist you viru for some strange reason. I want to stop...but you keep luring me back haha. No hard feelings, hope you honestly read my love letter to you earlier because I think you'll see my reading comprehension is far above the average pothead's (you said second grade, right?). But really, you just kind of ticked me off by laughing at what I posted and basically writing it off. No harm done though, I might have just misconstrued your tone, that's the thing about the written word, you can't understand the subtleties of conversation as well as with the spoken word.

But about the 180w...He showed me a picture of his 4,000w tray and asked to see a pic of my plants, which I used a 180w, so that's why I say that picture won't help him. He needs to see a picture of a tray with about 2.5-3k watts of led to compare effectively. If done properly, the penetration won't be an issue. What's so hard to understand about that?

I get what you're saying about 3w only having so much penetration power...but I'm saying 3w is plenty to get good penetration. If I'm not having an issue...why are others? I must be doing something differently then and I'll keep doing it. If you still don't care that I'm not having penetration issues, there are other ways that you can fix that besides the scrog I mentioned. How about some spotlights pointed upward underneath to get the lower sites more light? That's one of the great things about leds is that they come in different sizes and their casing designs allow for a modular setup. You can angle the lights however you want. I've even considered ditching the reflective surface on the walls and just installing panels up and down the walls. There's so many things you can do to counter the penetration issues everyone is having with them but me.

Hope there's no bad mojo going forth. Happy growing brother!

Puff, you're absolutely right. I need to see a pic of a 3K LED grow. The problem I'm having is actually SEEING one. LOL. This has been the root of my frustration. You know how much that LED settup would cost. I just cannot jusify plunking down the $$$ until I see with my own eyes what they can do. I have heard FAR too many false claims about LED performace. It's not that I won't be a "pioneer"...I will. But, I need to go in with my eyes wide open. Before I spend the money, is it really too much to ask to actually see what they can do?

On that note, I'm currently in communication with California Lightworks. They are willing to let me demo the Solarstorm 800 if I thoroughly document the whole grow. The thing is, I can't just use one. I need 4 to really have a test worthwile, seperated from any HID light contamination. I won't change my settup for the sake of a light test. The $$$ must keep on flowing...just like the grow room bills do! With some luck, they'll realize that sending me 4 lights may be the best marketing ploy they have ever done. We'll see.

virulient · Oct 4, 2011

collective gardener said:
Puff, you're absolutely right. I need to see a pic of a 3K LED grow. The problem I'm having is actually SEEING one. LOL. This has been the root of my frustration. You know how much that LED settup would cost. I just cannot jusify plunking down the $$$ until I see with my own eyes what they can do. I have heard FAR too many false claims about LED performace. It's not that I won't be a "pioneer"...I will. But, I need to go in with my eyes wide open. Before I spend the money, is it really too much to ask to actually see what they can do?

On that note, I'm currently in communication with California Lightworks. They are willing to let me demo the Solarstorm 800 if I thoroughly document the whole grow. The thing is, I can't just use one. I need 4 to really have a test worthwile, seperated from any HID light contamination. I won't change my settup for the sake of a light test. The $$$ must keep on flowing...just like the grow room bills do! With some luck, they'll realize that sending me 4 lights may be the best marketing ploy they have ever done. We'll see.

I think you should go around to the top 4-5 manufacturers, get ahold of someone with some authority, and get them to a thread or your website if you have one. Show them what you're accomplishing there, and show them what type of atmosphere their lights would be going into. If I had a company like that, I would JUMP on the opportunity to send a commercial-scale grow 4 of my lights. If I could advertise that someone growing PROFESSIONALLY, for a living, took 4 of my lights, and conducted a well-documented grow......and they worked well enough to compete! That would be one hell of an advertisement, I would jump all over that. Have you tried to call and talk with any of them yet?

davoswavos · Oct 4, 2011

virulient said:
What I was trying to get across, before I was attacked, is that LED's are fine for personal grows, micro grows, grow tents, SCRoG, SoG, LED's are great man. Unless you're growing monster sized plants like CG. The back and forth....that's every site. This is one of the most controversial conversations in our industry at the moment. We heat up, we cool down. In the long run, usually, RIU will get you some help and a good, informative, straight answer for any question that has one. Unfortunately, the question "Are LED's awesome-o?" doesn't have a good, informative, straight, and definitive answer. There are many variables, and people feel the need to argue over which variables are valid.

From what it sounds like you are trying to accomplish, LEDs and HID would both work out great. (If you are still going with a small time grow). And the brands I listed are still proven. Even puff would agree on that.

Bullshit all you guy's do is bicker on this site if people do there research they will find good led's just do the research yourself and don't listen to all these idiots that just bash on everyone that has anything good to say about leds. I have seen large grows with led's and your large plant theory you need to do a bit more research the glh v2's are so powerfull they need to be like 3-4' feet above canopy to keep from frying plants. Led's can be used for any type of grow you just have to know how to use them and specifically the model you will be using the best advice I can give for someone that is interested in led's would be to research on a different forum than this one because all the people that have had good led grows have gone elsewhere because of all the negativity here all thats left are the folks that ran off any reputable led grower.

collective gardener · Oct 4, 2011

davoswavos said:
Bullshit all you guy's do is bicker on this site if people do there research they will find good led's just do the research yourself and don't listen to all these idiots that just bash on everyone that has anything good to say about leds. I have seen large grows with led's and your large plant theory you need to do a bit more research the glh v2's are so powerfull they need to be like 3-4' feet above canopy to keep from frying plants. Led's can be used for any type of grow you just have to know how to use them and specifically the model you will be using the best advice I can give for someone that is interested in led's would be to research on a different forum than this one because all the people that have had good led grows have gone elsewhere because of all the negativity here all thats left are the folks that ran off any reputable led grower.

Could you please post links to these larger LED grows? I, for one, am very interested in any larger grow op running LED's. I would really like to see an LED that needed to be 3'-4' from the canopy. That just sounds to bright to be true. Perhaps we're stretching the truth a bit? My 1000 HPS's can be as close as 20" without burn.
Also, keep in mind, this is one of the more mellow LED discussions. If you look back, there's only a couple people who try and turn it into a "fuck you fest". Footclan seems a bit pent up...as in hasn't getten laid in a while, and Puff just seems pissed off from his first post, but he has cooled a bit.

Dennis Rodman · Oct 4, 2011

I know the UFO panels and "xtreme LED" lights usually suck.
Anyone heard of KESSIL LEDs?
they look kinda ballin... at least for maybe smaller grows.. def not running a warehouse with them.

curly604 · Oct 4, 2011

soooo bunch of stuff going on here , to much for me to address at once but let me just say that their are companies that use 5w chips in their lights already (by by penetration problems) and companies that i know of are pushing to further this. soon i think 5w diodes will be the standard and higher and lower wattage diodes will all be on the same panel (distributed evenly of coarse) , some diode companies are working on and have made prototypes for 50-90w diodes!!!!!! but they are still deep in testing as these diodes are not very efficient yet. also a friend of mine is starting an led company he is using 3w diodes some of which produce 200 lumens each ....... i wont get into how this is not a good way to measure light but either way that will add up quick. in closing i guess im saying that if you think led's are not gonna get big .....your wrong, im sorry but it is undeniable if already i can pump 2 oz's of some fine ass herb from a 2 spectrum light that was using 65 true watts of light power then surely there are lights out there TODAY that can match and even beat hps on yield and quality. couldnt agree more with the people that are sick of the haters here , what it all comes down to is it dont matter , whatever works best for you is what you should use , but hating trolling and bashing dont help no one in fact it puts you in the same spot as the government and the pigs ....... trying to hold us back from what we love.

Clonex · Oct 4, 2011

curly604 said:
soooo bunch of stuff going on here , to much for me to address at once but let me just say that their are companies that use 5w chips in their lights already (by by penetration problems) and companies that i know of are pushing to further this. soon i think 5w diodes will be the standard and higher and lower wattage diodes will all be on the same panel (distributed evenly of coarse) , some diode companies are working on and have made prototypes for 50-90w diodes!!!!!! but they are still deep in testing as these diodes are not very efficient yet. also a friend of mine is starting an led company he is using 3w diodes some of which produce 200 lumens each ....... i wont get into how this is not a good way to measure light but either way that will add up quick. in closing i guess im saying that if you think led's are not gonna get big .....your wrong, im sorry but it is undeniable if already i can pump 2 oz's of some fine ass herb from a 2 spectrum light that was using 65 true watts of light power then surely there are lights out there TODAY that can match and even beat hps on yield and quality. couldnt agree more with the people that are sick of the haters here , what it all comes down to is it dont matter , whatever works best for you is what you should use , but hating trolling and bashing dont help no one in fact it puts you in the same spot as the government and the pigs ....... trying to hold us back from what we love.

Pushing to furthur this means not yet - please can you link me these lights , TY

Clonex · Oct 4, 2011

davoswavos said:
Bullshit all you guy's do is bicker on this site if people do there research they will find good led's just do the research yourself and don't listen to all these idiots that just bash on everyone that has anything good to say about leds. I have seen large grows with led's and your large plant theory you need to do a bit more research the glh v2's are so powerfull they need to be like 3-4' feet above canopy to keep from frying plants. Led's can be used for any type of grow you just have to know how to use them and specifically the model you will be using the best advice I can give for someone that is interested in led's would be to research on a different forum than this one because all the people that have had good led grows have gone elsewhere because of all the negativity here all thats left are the folks that ran off any reputable led grower.

Well i for 1 am debating not ranting , although to start a comment with , Bullshit is not exactly a placid start is it , do you have any links or pictures to back up your claims ?

Clonex · Oct 4, 2011

I just think they are lights ? i have said this before , why all the personal shit ? It seems to me that Myself , Corbat , Collective gardener etc all want to be using Led , but as we are larger scale growers , problems occur , we dont love our
HID's , we love the job they do and we are not oblivious to there drawbacks , there is no hating/loving or anything of this nature , we cant find a large scale Led grower that has cured the penatration or coverage problems, which is why we have not swapped yet , its that Simple ......
it's merely not enough for us if you come on and rant about who loves what and when ........
I need some links/pictures advice on company outlets and real evidence , which at present i cannot find! i would love the benefits of led without the loss in bud density , coverage and Penatration, Peace !
at the end of the day we all want the same results here.........

curly604 · Oct 4, 2011

.......... whats this ...... they do use led's for commercial grows ...... weird that if it is better in small places its just the same in large ....fml

[video=youtube;xm8vgHznTkg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm8vgHznTkg[/video]

and this is a couple years old now i believe , there are many people doing large scale medical grows in cali and denver and shit and they swear by it , another example my buddy just switched his whole house over from hps to led just because he didnt want to buy new a/c units that cost thousands of dollars up front and then alot to run over time too. i made the switch as well fuck high heat expensive to run potentially dangerous heat lamps just not my thing no more.

also clonex i cant remember the name of the company right now

but it has the word dog in it i believe hahaahah ill look further and get back to ya cheers man

STAY AWAY FROM LED's!!!!!

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