Still having trouble understanding what I am missing. Organic soil grow with lockout or deficiencies.

ComfortCreator

Well-Known Member
I have a thread in the newbie section and am hoping some organic grow experts can help me diagnose my issues. I dont intend to have multiple threads, but am not sure how to get some help so at the suggestion of another member I wanted to ask. I should have asked here but as a newbie had put it there originally.


I apologize in advance to mods and members if I am doing this wrong. Intentions are good and i am not trying to spam the site with my link.
 

Richard Drysift

Well-Known Member
Ok so what looks like a ph lockout or deficiency could also be due to low microbial activity. What I don't see in your post on the other thread is if you added compost....namely earthworm castings. Add compost to your mix every few weeks if needed to get the soil supernaturally active with microbes and fungi. You can also give an aact regiment to maintain a high level of activity. Amend & recycle the root ball again after each run. Your mix will get better each time you do.
Looks to me like the ph is out of range and/or your mix is not as active with microbes as it should/could be. These are typically related issues in a natural soil. If you add some ewc as a top dressing it should drop the ph slightly more acidic which could help push the ph closer to the proper range. Another thing besides proper ph range that could assist with absorption is to add granular mycorrhizae at each transplant. Just sprinkle it in the hole so it's in contact with the root ball at each transplant. You'll notice a difference once it "bites;" myco attaches to the root system and pulls up what is needed by the plant. Treat the soil as the living thing that it is and the plants will do their thing; they know what to do. Focus on keeping your soil healthy and the plants will follow.
Leaving your tap water out does not remove chloramine; though there was a time not long ago this was common practice. There are some municipalities that still use regular old chlorine in their systems but most water companies in the US have switched to chloramine which cannot be leached off by letting it set overnight.
I had what looks to be very similar problems as you with my own tap water when I started out growing organic. Plants looked much better after I stopped giving them tap water but paying .35 per gallon for Walmart RO water was not feasible. Bought an RO filtration system but found it was very wasteful; it froze up over the winter from extremely cold weather and then fucking exploded...not good. The solution I found was to simply use the water collected from a dehumidifier that I was just pouring down the drain anyway. I also augment the water supply with local spring water and rainwater runoff collected in buckets. A clean water source can make a world of difference in natural soil grows although some will argue that using city tap water is fine. Not saying that is your problem here just tossing this out.
It is actually kind of difficult to provide a soluble source of cal/mag when you start out with a fresh new mix. First of all there are very few brands of liquid cal/mag that are safe for living soil. Secondly it takes a very long time for sources of calcium like D-lime, oyster shell flour, and/or garden gypsum to break down and become available. I used general organics cal/mag+ for awhile until the shit-ton of eggshells I put in my worm bin became fully decomposed and available to the plants. It is OMRI rated safe for organic soil. Look for that label if you are ever in question what to add. If it's just that a soluble form of npk is needed you can give a liquid fish; I like Neptunes Harvest with seaweed. If you added compost and the mix was not properly limed you can try to add hydrated D-lime or Epsom salts by diluting with water and bubbling a few hours which will deliver soluble macros deep into the mix but this is the extreme "nuclear" option. Try simply adding compost first.
 
Last edited:

ComfortCreator

Well-Known Member
Ok so what looks like a ph lockout or deficiency could also be due to low microbial activity. What I don't see in your post on the other thread is if you added compost....namely earthworm castings. Add compost to your mix every few weeks if needed to get the soil supernaturally active with microbes and fungi. You can also give an aact regiment to maintain a high level of activity. Amend & recycle the root ball again after each run. Your mix will get better each time you do.
Looks to me like the ph is out of range and/or your mix is not as active with microbes as it should/could be. These are typically related issues in a natural soil. If you add some ewc as a top dressing it should drop the ph slightly more acidic which could help push the ph closer to the proper range. Another thing besides proper ph range that could assist with absorption is to add granular mycorrhizae at each transplant. Just sprinkle it in the hole so it's in contact with the root ball at each transplant. You'll notice a difference once it "bites;" myco attaches to the root system and pulls up what is needed by the plant. Treat the soil as the living thing that it is and the plants will do their thing; they know what to do. Focus on keeping your soil healthy and the plants will follow.
Leaving your tap water out does not remove chloramine; though there was a time not long ago this was common practice. There are some municipalities that still use regular old chlorine in their systems but most water companies in the US have switched to chloramine which cannot be leached off by letting it set overnight.
I had what looks to be very similar problems as you with my own tap water when I started out growing organic. Plants looked much better after I stopped giving them tap water but paying .35 per gallon for Walmart RO water was not feasible. Bought an RO filtration system but found it was very wasteful; it froze up over the winter from extremely cold weather and then fucking exploded...not good. The solution I found was to simply use the water collected from a dehumidifier that I was just pouring down the drain anyway. I also augment the water supply with local spring water and rainwater runoff collected in buckets. A clean water source can make a world of difference in natural soil grows although some will argue that using city tap water is fine. Not saying that is your problem here just tossing this out.
It is actually kind of difficult to provide a soluble source of cal/mag when you start out with a fresh new mix. First of all there are very few brands of liquid cal/mag that are safe for living soil. Secondly it takes a very long time for sources of calcium like D-lime, oyster shell flour, and/or garden gypsum to break down and become available. I used general organics cal/mag+ for awhile until the shit-ton of eggshells I put in my worm bin became fully decomposed and available to the plants. It is OMRI rated safe for organic soil. Look for that label if you are ever in question what to add. If it's just that a soluble form of npk is needed you can give a liquid fish; I like Neptunes Harvest with seaweed. If you added compost and the mix was not properly limed you can try to add hydrated D-lime or Epsom salts by diluting with water and bubbling a few hours which will deliver soluble macros deep into the mix but this is the extreme "nuclear" option. Try simply adding compost first.
Richard...thanks for taking the time to share some ideas. The mix is roughly 1/3 earthworm castings, there is also some quality compost mixed in too. 1/3 peat, 1/3 aeration and then a mix of neem crab kelp azomite, plantone lime and plantone fertilizer. I wondered if I had poor bacteria life so i recently started putting in a little Recharge to boost it...they did perk up a lot from it.
I am fortunate enough to have a water supply that uses chlorine and not chloramine and the tests claim residual is about 1.
From early on I have had this long running deficiency that has discolored the older growth but in my limited view of it has not slowed growth. Ive gone round and round guessing, trying not to do too much. I plan to try a little epsom salt in the next watering to see if the mag and sulfur will help while at the same time leaving out Calcium as it seems they have plenty of that.
Ive checked and rechecked ph of the soil...runoff, slurry and the water I use. My soil ph appears to be about 6.8.

I have and used a 2.5ml per gallon dose of calmag+ and while it didnt hurt much it maybe mildy helped and seemed to cause other minor discolorations. I feel like the grow is going OK but is just missing something.

For future grows and transplants I will definitely focus on roots and bacterial life to improve the whole setup. Thanks again if you have any further ideas just let me know!

Sorey to hear about your RO system that sucks, like winter doesnt blow badly enough by itself! It is impractical to get gallons of water constantly more from a practical standpoint than just cost...heavy, burdensome! But if I absolutely knew that was my problem I would do it. So many grow with tap water I hate to complicate it if ph down can do the job.

Cc
 

Kushash

Well-Known Member
Ok so what looks like a ph lockout or deficiency could also be due to low microbial activity. What I don't see in your post on the other thread is if you added compost....namely earthworm castings. Add compost to your mix every few weeks if needed to get the soil supernaturally active with microbes and fungi. You can also give an aact regiment to maintain a high level of activity. Amend & recycle the root ball again after each run. Your mix will get better each time you do.
Looks to me like the ph is out of range and/or your mix is not as active with microbes as it should/could be. These are typically related issues in a natural soil. If you add some ewc as a top dressing it should drop the ph slightly more acidic which could help push the ph closer to the proper range. Another thing besides proper ph range that could assist with absorption is to add granular mycorrhizae at each transplant. Just sprinkle it in the hole so it's in contact with the root ball at each transplant. You'll notice a difference once it "bites;" myco attaches to the root system and pulls up what is needed by the plant. Treat the soil as the living thing that it is and the plants will do their thing; they know what to do. Focus on keeping your soil healthy and the plants will follow.
Leaving your tap water out does not remove chloramine; though there was a time not long ago this was common practice. There are some municipalities that still use regular old chlorine in their systems but most water companies in the US have switched to chloramine which cannot be leached off by letting it set overnight.
I had what looks to be very similar problems as you with my own tap water when I started out growing organic. Plants looked much better after I stopped giving them tap water but paying .35 per gallon for Walmart RO water was not feasible. Bought an RO filtration system but found it was very wasteful; it froze up over the winter from extremely cold weather and then fucking exploded...not good. The solution I found was to simply use the water collected from a dehumidifier that I was just pouring down the drain anyway. I also augment the water supply with local spring water and rainwater runoff collected in buckets. A clean water source can make a world of difference in natural soil grows although some will argue that using city tap water is fine. Not saying that is your problem here just tossing this out.
It is actually kind of difficult to provide a soluble source of cal/mag when you start out with a fresh new mix. First of all there are very few brands of liquid cal/mag that are safe for living soil. Secondly it takes a very long time for sources of calcium like D-lime, oyster shell flour, and/or garden gypsum to break down and become available. I used general organics cal/mag+ for awhile until the shit-ton of eggshells I put in my worm bin became fully decomposed and available to the plants. It is OMRI rated safe for organic soil. Look for that label if you are ever in question what to add. If it's just that a soluble form of npk is needed you can give a liquid fish; I like Neptunes Harvest with seaweed. If you added compost and the mix was not properly limed you can try to add hydrated D-lime or Epsom salts by diluting with water and bubbling a few hours which will deliver soluble macros deep into the mix but this is the extreme "nuclear" option. Try simply adding compost first.
He is running his lights 24/0, I've never been a fan of new growers growing 24/0.
 

ComfortCreator

Well-Known Member
He is running his lights 24/0, I've never been a fan of new growers growing 24/0.
Hi Kushhash,

Thanks for commenting. I appreciate the input and agree it was not helpful. No room for relief from what could easily have been light stress added to other issues.

Im seriously very happy that im getting comments and ideas. I will do everything better next time. It was a lazy solution on my part to go 24 0. Humility is a necessity to get better, I know that much at least.

Happy Thanksgiving!
 

Kushash

Well-Known Member
Hi Kushhash,

Thanks for commenting. I appreciate the input and agree it was not helpful. No room for relief from what could easily have been light stress added to other issues.

Im seriously very happy that im getting comments and ideas. I will do everything better next time. It was a lazy solution on my part to go 24 0. Humility is a necessity to get better, I know that much at least.

Happy Thanksgiving!
Happy Thanksgiving!
 

Richard Drysift

Well-Known Member
If you have not added more compost as a top dressing or in a tea doing so now might help. Add some kelp meal and/or fish bone along with it if you can. Jobes organic spikes can help sustain the plants through a full kbloom cycl. Sounds like maybe your plants are deficient in macros; a liquid organic cal/mag like general organics cal/mag+ might help. Don't think this has anything to do with a continuous light cycle but giving them a few hours of dark each day certainly lessens stress.
 

ComfortCreator

Well-Known Member
If you have not added more compost as a top dressing or in a tea doing so now might help. Add some kelp meal and/or fish bone along with it if you can. Jobes organic spikes can help sustain the plants through a full kbloom cycl. Sounds like maybe your plants are deficient in macros; a liquid organic cal/mag like general organics cal/mag+ might help. Don't think this has anything to do with a continuous light cycle but giving them a few hours of dark each day certainly lessens stress.
Hi Richard...thanks again for good ideas. I did a very light topdress of a few with more soil. I recently started using Recharge which helped and contains many of those items.

I think I have found at least part of the problem. Ill keep investigating and working the remedy and report back in the next day or so. I wanted to give everybody a break from my consistent babble over Thanksgiving.
 

ComfortCreator

Well-Known Member
Air circulation -- As i stood and stared for more hours I realized it just wasn't that comfortable and needed more breeze. When I added another rotating fan, many of them perked up instantly. They must have needed more air and co2. So I also increased the exhaust to 50% from 30%. I turn it back down to 30% lights off, then back up before lights on. That seemed to make a huge difference. I have 2 exhaust running with carbon filters, rated 400cfm total (not incl reduction for filters). Room is 225cft. So if the carbon filters slow them by half, it should get an air exchange every 2 minutes.

Epsom salt - Not really sure but seems it helps.

Recharge - Added to last watering 1/2tsp/gallon

Mag and P - You will see in several pictures what I think are great plants (!) but they have major purpling of leaf color and veins. It makes it appear like the P is way deficient. I am not saying it is but the addition of epsom salt may cause an issue with P?

I have some Mammoth P to try and see if it helps the bacterial herd.

I figure this soil probably has plenty of everything. The bigger plants are darker green. I think the other issue is watering.

Ive used water with pH to 6.4 to 6.6 last few waterings. I have watered slow, a quart at a time. Roughly a gallon each every 3 days. The smaller ones have gotten 3 quarts.

When I water I see the plants seem to fade in color for a day...then they look nicer and nicer as each day goes by. I use the knuckle test, pin soil meter, lift the pot. I have never gotten much if any runoff. So why do they start poorly after watering every 3 days and then look better and better? It must be that they either need more time to dry or I think instead I should reduce watering by a third or maybe even half.

Pics of current. They grew bigtime. Most receive 30k lux, the tallest tops are hitting 45k and they seem to like it. I do see how new growth has some bright fade to it but it seems to go away as it grows. I plan to raise the light up about 6 inches in a day or 2 and adjust the dimmer for similar lux.

Please offer any ideas or thoughts you have.

Thank you,
Cc
 

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