Strange looking clones

Uberknot

Uberknot

Well-Known Member
Kingrow1 said:
The last genetic mutation i saw in weed was autoflowers and even they took probably hundreds of years to evolve.
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It probably took thousands and thousands of years....

Anyhow....this shit can get pretty heavy duty...I need to smoke...bongsmilie

"In genetics, the mutation rate is a measure of the rate at which various types of mutations occur over time. Mutation rates are typically given for a specific class of mutation, for instance point mutations, small or large scale insertions or deletions. The rate of substitutions can be further subdivided into a mutation spectrum which describes the influence of genetic context on the mutation rate.

There are several natural units of time for each of these rates, with rates being characterized either as mutations per base pair per cell division, per gene per generation, or per genome per generation. The mutation rate of an organism is an evolved characteristic and is strongly influenced by the genetics of each organism, in addition to strong influence from the environment. The upper and lower limits to which mutation rates can evolve is the subject of ongoing investigation."
 
Odin*

Odin*

Well-Known Member
Kingrow1 said:
Your quoting wrong stuff that is more to do with exspression not mutation, ive already pointed this out and by your reasoning anyone with a stressed plant now has a breedable mutation...

Dumb ass!
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Read the links, you stupid son of a bitch. Both explicitly state that DNA is altered by stress. The second link is a study on what is called cumulative stress, which can, and will, fuck up DNA as well as cause "permanent mutation".

Look dipshit;

"Therefore, to survive under frequent and extreme environmental stress conditions, plant cells have evolved with highly efficient and wide-ranging mechanisms for the detection and repair of DNA damage to eliminate the chances of permanent genetic alterations and to maintain genome stability for faithful transfer of genetic information over generations..."

Without exceeding it's life cycle, plants are constantly battling to avoid "permanent genetic alterations". However, stressors can exceed the plants ability to "heal", especially when the stress is excessive, over a prolonged period of time, and that "period of time" far exceeds the plants natural life cycle. (Thus the the term "cumulative stress")

Instead of pissing over my posts with your misinformed half-wit dumb shit, why don't you post some science that contradicts one single thing that I've said? Prove that stress does not alter DNA or that cumulative stress is a myth.
 
Kingrow1

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
Lol maybe ask Rollie if he can make a new forum here for all those who believe they have mutations so peeps like me dont piss you of or upset your feelimgs and you can spread this bs there instead of trying to convince the majority of growers here in the more educated sections.

Plants that are stressed are mutants bwaahaaahaaa......!


Odin* said:
Read the links, you stupid son of a bitch. Both explicitly state that DNA is altered by stress. The second link is a study on what is called cumulative stress, which can, and will, fuck up DNA as well as cause "permanent mutation".

Look dipshit;

"Therefore, to survive under frequent and extreme environmental stress conditions, plant cells have evolved with highly efficient and wide-ranging mechanisms for the detection and repair of DNA damage to eliminate the chances of permanent genetic alterations and to maintain genome stability for faithful transfer of genetic information over generations..."

Without exceeding it's life cycle, plants are constantly battling to avoid "permanent genetic alterations". However, stressors can exceed the plants ability to "heal", especially when the stress is excessive, over a prolonged period of time, and that "period of time" far exceeds the plants natural life cycle. (Thus the the term "cumulative stress")

Instead of pissing over my posts with your misinformed half-wit dumb shit, why don't you post some science that contradicts one single thing that I've said? Prove that stress does not alter DNA or that cumulative stress is a myth.
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Odin*

Odin*

Well-Known Member
Keep twisting and misconstruing. It's the level of cumulative stress that can either permanently alter DNA, or cause variations in genetic expression (as @Afgan King observed). Mothers can be maintained and each will garner various degrees of cumulative stress based on environment, care, cuttings, etc. One mother that gives a dozen or so cuttings every ~10 weeks will accumulate significantly less stress than a mother offering hundreds of clones every few weeks (environments/care being equal). A mother giving off thousands of clones per year, for a multitude of years, runs this risk of compromised genome stability due to cumulative stress that exceeds that plants coping mechanisms. This is a fact, as explained in the links offered, and any science related on the subject.
 
Afgan King

Afgan King

Well-Known Member
It can also be a trait of the strai
Kingrow1 said:
Lol maybe ask Rollie if he can make a new forum here for all those who believe they have mutations so peeps like me dont piss you of or upset your feelimgs and you can spread this bs there instead of trying to convince the majority of growers here in the more educated sections.

Plants that are stressed are mutants bwaahaaahaaa......!
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@Odin* 100% correct. Let me ask how many plants you grown this year? I'm well over 10,000 since January 1st took clones every 9 days 256 to be exact never kept mothers after the first year started getting mutations of the plants. They'll throw diff phenos or weird growth in general. I have a strain that act like this regardless has since seeds single and 3 leaves all the way till flower then 5 and 7 leaves appear. Have y'all ever worked in a setting of 5000 plants constantly? Take care of over 700 plants and 556 clones as well as your own garden at home? Just wondering because the shit that happens in commercial grows with massive plant counts is way different than in small grows. But go ahead call names spread misinformation do whatever idc honestly think it's funny that people that are paid to grow and make these decisions and diagnosis on large scales get put as not knowing their shit compared to at home growers
 
Kingrow1

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
Noobs teaching noobs how to grow is all i see dude. So what if your mother plant got old and its genetics degraded, thats not a breedable trait or pheno in any sense of the word. That shit happens in all species right before a slow death except some jellyfish which can reverse the process, real lame!



Afgan King said:
It can also be a trait of the strai

@Odin* 100% correct. Let me ask how many plants you grown this year? I'm well over 10,000 since January 1st took clones every 9 days 256 to be exact never kept mothers after the first year started getting mutations of the plants. They'll throw diff phenos or weird growth in general. I have a strain that act like this regardless has since seeds single and 3 leaves all the way till flower then 5 and 7 leaves appear. Have y'all ever worked in a setting of 5000 plants constantly? Take care of over 700 plants and 556 clones as well as your own garden at home? Just wondering because the shit that happens in commercial grows with massive plant counts is way different than in small grows. But go ahead call names spread misinformation do whatever idc honestly think it's funny that people that are paid to grow and make these decisions and diagnosis on large scales get put as not knowing their shit compared to at home growers
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Afgan King

Afgan King

Well-Known Member
Kingrow1 said:
Noobs teaching noobs how to grow is all i see dude. So what if your mother plant got old and its genetics degraded, thats not a breedable trait or pheno in any sense of the word. That shit happens in all species right before a slow death except some jellyfish which can reverse the process, real lame!
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Didn't notice the number of plants you grown this year? Is it cuz i have more moms and clones right now than you've grown plants all year? Yup I'm a noob your right 10 years a noob know nothing about anything can't grow for shit I just get lucky your right glad we're on same page :hump::wall::dunce:(:
 
Odin*

Odin*

Well-Known Member
Afgan King said:
It can also be a trait of the strai

@Odin* 100% correct. Let me ask how many plants you grown this year? I'm well over 10,000 since January 1st took clones every 9 days 256 to be exact never kept mothers after the first year started getting mutations of the plants. They'll throw diff phenos or weird growth in general. I have a strain that act like this regardless has since seeds single and 3 leaves all the way till flower then 5 and 7 leaves appear. Have y'all ever worked in a setting of 5000 plants constantly? Take care of over 700 plants and 556 clones as well as your own garden at home? Just wondering because the shit that happens in commercial grows with massive plant counts is way different than in small grows. But go ahead call names spread misinformation do whatever idc honestly think it's funny that people that are paid to grow and make these decisions and diagnosis on large scales get put as not knowing their shit compared to at home growers
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I don't want to state exact numbers, but I go through thousands of plants per year. It's how I've been able to go through so many strains.

I'm in Los Angeles, grew up here (kinda in the "scene"), so I know many of the guys that are big commercial growers and/or club owners (not all club owners have massive commercial grows, but many do provide for their club). Some of my childhood friends are "grow managers" for large operations. I frequent their clubs/grows. I often drop off some of the goods to get feedback. Holy shit, everyone's gone nuts over the "Mystery", "Mint", and those new "M's". Anyhow, I have given them some pointers (get asked a lot of questions).


What I've noticed here is that many will pose a question and everyone provides their opinion. Eventually someone will state "too bad there isn't any science to put this debate to rest". Then, once the science that supports a given method is posted, it inevitably reverts back to "grow bro science". I'm beginning to think that some of the "for profit" people are intentionally misleading new growers in an effort to eliminate any new "threats". Many forget that for every person that posts, there are hundreds (maybe thousands) lurking for info... and so much of it is "bad". Lots of knowledgable experienced growers here as well.
 
cat of curiosity

cat of curiosity

Well-Known Member
Odin* said:
One mother that gives a dozen or so cuttings every ~10 weeks will accumulate significantly less stress than a mother offering hundreds of clones every few weeks (environments/care being equal). A mother giving off thousands of clones per year, for a multitude of years, runs this risk of compromised genome stability due to cumulative stress that exceeds that plants coping mechanisms. This is a fact.
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the dna will never change, even if new tissue is deformed genetically. a clone is a clone is a clone. the whole 'copy of a copy of a copy' idea from multiplicity is hollywood. roses have been grown from cuttings of cuttings of countless cuttings for a few thousand years.

that plant that gives thousands of cuttings will do just fine if you give her a month or two off and let her veg out.

check the results on dolly the sheep.
 
Odin*

Odin*

Well-Known Member
cat of curiosity said:
alterations in genome is not alteration in base dna. it is not the same thing. i've been growing for more than a couple decades as well, but i still disagree with your main point on this matter.
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It isn't my point though, it's the focal point of the article I posted which specifically states that the DNA of a single plant can be altered to the point of mutation by something as simple as sodium in the soil. Cumulative stress, also not "my point", but something that agriculturalists study in an attempt to mitigate or eliminate altogether.
 
cat of curiosity

cat of curiosity

Well-Known Member
Odin* said:
It isn't my point though, it's the focal point of the article I posted which specifically states that the DNA of a single plant can be altered to the point of mutation by something as simple as sodium in the soil. Cumulative stress, also not "my point", but something that agriculturalists study in an attempt to mitigate or eliminate altogether.
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that's all good, but to the original post, the problem is stress, and cuttings taken from an outdoor plant after the start of flower, resulting in single blade stress leaves....

what's dna got to do with that?
 
Odin*

Odin*

Well-Known Member
cat of curiosity said:
that's all good, but to the original post, the problem is stress, and cuttings taken from an outdoor plant after the start of flower, resulting in single blade stress leaves....

what's dna got to do with that?
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You're right, DNA mutation and varied genetic expression due to "cumulative stress" has nothing to do with "stress leaves"...



I'm not trying to be condescending. One thing I can say about your presence on these boards is that you're one cool cat. I feel that, for the most part, people consider genetic mutations amongst plants and animals to travel in the same vein. They don't, quite different.
 
B

bryan oconner

Well-Known Member
possible give your plants some medications for stress . lol and the plants will soak it up and return it to us later . after this debate we all could use some .
 
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