Submersible pump question

Zhu

Well-Known Member
No, I prefer flood systems. They're much more reliable than DWC and not dependent on a 24/7 air supply. A power failure lasting more than a couple hours can kill a whole DWC grow. Aero systems are somewhat more tolerant of a power failure as they don't keep the roots submerged, but they're still not the best choice for a new grower.



A small flood system is easy to build & maintain, especially for new growers.
im using a very similar system except its aero/drain I like to call it aero/sump I'm still working out the bugs but I have a larger rubbermaid container on top of a allglass aquarium sump model 4 . I have 2 overflow pipes one set lower than the other. When the water reaches the first pipe level the water slowly fills the first chamber on the sump and maintains it at a full state and slowly filters the water through living bacteria. The pressure in the first chamber allows the water to exceed the first pipe till it reaches the second. When this happens the pressure in the first chamber causes enough suction in the sump to flush the water back down to the first pipe level within 5 minutes. It keeps my res and rubbermaid/growtray clean and always in fresh supply. I will be starting a full journal soon after I finish it.
 

SilkShaker14

Active Member
ok.....i get you now

ok so if i had a simple setup for a aero,DWC, and flood and drain systems

I am a beginner at hydro, done soil several times but first time hydro (well with chronic anyway)

Which you reccomend?
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
im using a very similar system except its aero/drain I like to call it aero/sump I'm still working out the bugs
sounds seriously complex. The beauty of floods is that they have one moving part, can't clog and are very easy to clean.
 

Zhu

Well-Known Member
sounds seriously complex. The beauty of floods is that they have one moving part, can't clog and are very easy to clean.
sounds pretty complex but it's really not that bad. It will be pretty much maintenance free too.
 

SilkShaker14

Active Member
Could you show me, or point me in the direction, of a easy to build flood and drain system. With materials and instructions?
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
Here's the plans!



What is used for the tray depends on how many plants you grow. Underbed storage tubs will work for about 10-12 plants. The fill & drain fitting which connects the pump hose (bit of garden hose) and the overflow fittings can be had readily at hydro shops or you might concoct something from any hardware store's array of plastic fittings. The pump is any common centrifugal aquarium pump, used with a timer. Not pictured in the animated diagram is an air pump driving an air stone (preferably a bubble curtain) in the nute tank.

That's the lot!
 

SilkShaker14

Active Member
I really appreciate the help man, but I have one more request

Could you expand upon it a little further, I mean I have never used flood and drain and need as much help as possible.....I got six seeds germinated and ready to plant so the the sooner I get this and get it built the better...lol
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
um, you know... you really ought to have the grow room built, operating & tested before you sprout the beans... :?

What do you need expanded?
 

SilkShaker14

Active Member
I have the room built, it is just a closet.

Now my problem is I keep going back and forth about which type of system to use.

What should be used for the overflow drain?
Will the water really flow back down through the pump and into the reservoir?
And should I use pots in the tray or just fill the tray with medium and grow like that?
Also do you need to have a air pump and air stone in this system?
And last, is H2O2 really necessary for this system, can you get by without it?

I know I am a pain in a the ass guys...lol....but I REALLY appreciate the help.
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
I have the room built, it is just a closet.

Now my problem is I keep going back and forth about which type of system to use.
In other words, your grow is not set up and operating, but you've cracked beans already.

The room AND ALL EQUIPMENT should be set up and functional before you crack beans. The room should be tested for about a week with no plants in it to assure it will operate correctly before putting any plants in it.

What should be used for the overflow drain?
It's a piece of PVC tubing of the correct length and a bulkhead fitting which goes through the tray and has a barbed fitting on the bottom side so you can fit a piece of hose to it. This piece of hose will duct water back into the tank without a lot of dribbling water noise while the system is flooding. These can be had from the hdwe store or any hydro shop.

Will the water really flow back down through the pump and into the reservoir?
I sure hope so. :lol:

Centrifugal aquarium pumps as commonly used in this application allow backflow when they are not spinning.

And should I use pots in the tray or just fill the tray with medium and grow like that?
Use pots of media in an empty tray. This keeps the roots of the plants from knitting and permits you to move the plants at any time.

Also do you need to have a air pump and air stone in this system?
Yes.

And last, is H2O2 really necessary for this system, can you get by without it?
What's yummy to your cannabis plants is also yummy to algae, fungi and other pathogens. You must use some manner of pathogen control or you will wind up with a tank full of microbes which both compete for food with your plants and can also damage their root systems. H2O2 does this more effectively than any other means, while providing oxygen directly to the roots as a result of decomposition on contact with pathogens.
 

SilkShaker14

Active Member
What is the flood and drain fitting?

Can I just connect the hose from the sub pump up through into the grow tray or do I need a special fitting???
 

Seamaiden

Well-Known Member
Check valves can stop backflow. Not good in saltwater applications, especially reef tanks, as critters, coralline algae and other crap builds up and prevents them from operating properly.

He's talking about a bulkhead fitting. How do I explain it.. ok, it's threaded on both sides, has two pieces, and is used to make a connection THROUGH something. In this case your reservoir. You need to get water in and out of it, right? So, how are you gonna connect up the hose or line? With a bulkhead fitting. :D Cheapest at hardware stores or plumbing supplies, most expensive if you go through an aquarium shop.

Bulkhead:


Oooo! I just found a bulkhead DIY! :D (It's for a Durso standpipe, this is for aquaria, but I'm sure it can be translated).

http://www.randystacye.com/diybulkhead.htm
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
What is the flood and drain fitting?

Can I just connect the hose from the sub pump up through into the grow tray or do I need a special fitting???
The fill/drain fitting is flush with the floor of the tray so that when the pump shuts off and water backflows through the pump, the level can fall to the tray floor level, allowing all the water to drain back to the tank. .

Check valves can stop backflow.
no need for a check valve in a flood sys. Backflow through the pump is a desirable thing in this case as it eliminates the need for any valving.



When the pump shuts off, water just drains backward through the pump.

He's talking about a bulkhead fitting.
Bulkhead:



Yep, that's the bit needed for the overflow, well spotted.
 

Seamaiden

Well-Known Member
no need for a check valve in a flood sys. Backflow through the pump is a desirable thing in this case as it eliminates the need for any valving.



When the pump shuts off, water just drains backward through the pump.
Ok, now that's just HELL of cool. It reminds me of the Pacific kelp display at the Long Beach Aquarium of the Pacific (used to have a part-time gig there). Those animals need major surge, they use gigantic buckets with these huge pistons that rock them back and forth, and then there's another part of the system that does something a little bit like this gif you put up (which is pretty cool now that I can focus on it). I learned the hard way, any time you can plumb so that you DON'T need to use a check valve, do it that way. In the fish world we call that reservoir a sump, but the sump either acts as a filter or holds filters and the water flow is constant and circular. I don't know enough about either hydroponics or ebb and flow to ask any other questions intelligently, but thanks for that gif, it's wonderful to see things 'in action'.

You, too, could do the plumbing for a public aquarium. Ain't nothin' like the smell of a fish room, I tell you what. 8)
Yep, that's the bit needed for the overflow, well spotted.
That pic you put back in is the DIY bulkhead that someone adapted from the Durso standpipe overflow. But I don't see why it can't be adapted easily for the ebb and flow.

I dig that gif, I'm saving it to my harddrive.
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
Ok, now that's just HELL of cool.
It sure is. :) I was just as amazed when I first learned how tray-based flood systems work many moons ago. The backflow through the inexpensive centrif pumps makes it happen.

Ain't nothin' like the smell of a fish room, I tell you what. 8)
Punch line without a joke: "Dammit Adam, how am I EVER gonna get the smell off the FISH?!" :lol:

That pic you put back in is the DIY bulkhead that someone adapted from the Durso standpipe overflow. But I don't see why it can't be adapted easily for the ebb and flow.
Yep, that's the bit you find at any hydro shop for the overflow. I'm quite sure you could find the same thing at your local giant hdwe store.

I dig that gif, I'm saving it to my harddrive.
It does illustrate the operation of the flood sys really well. I should have but did not credit the source for that. It came from SimplyHydro.
 
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