supercritical co2 extraction - diy community?

[vapeitgud]

Also, sorry if my previous comments seemed a little rude. Charles upset me by saying it was not possible to do diy C02 extractions. I came here to hopefully gain some insight into a serviceable collection vessel that I can use. Not to have a matter of fact denied by someone.

 

[vapeitgud]

According to the sellers description they have been pressure tested up to 20 mpa with no leaks. Even if I run supercritical extractions I only plan on going up to 1500 psi at most, so even if I had to directly hear the material vessel I shouldn't even come close to the maximum psi (though I plan on heating the supply tank.

It's a little concerning to me that the pressure rating is from a sellers test, and not from the manufacturer. But the seller is offering videos of pressure tests.

 

[Fadedawg]

Ahhh I see, it's a good link. Your article was incredibly helpful. Unfortunately all of your links to products are no longer serviceable. I was wondering what type of vessel you used for the vessel. That end is used to depressurize so it should need such stringent pressure ratings. The 45g C02 cartridges aren't ideal for a collection vessel, as one port is on top, and the other is on the bottom. I would want a collection vessel with two ports on top.

Which links are down?

 

[Fadedawg]

According to the sellers description they have been pressure tested up to 20 mpa with no leaks. Even if I run supercritical extractions I only plan on going up to 1500 psi at most, so even if I had to directly hear the material vessel I shouldn't even come close to the maximum psi (though I plan on heating the supply tank.

20 mpa is about 3ksi. Techincally that is adequate for 1500 psi, but due to possibilities of manufacturing flaws, ASME Section VIII pressure vessel code would require 3X or 4500 psi.

 

[Fadedawg]

Ahhh I see, it's a good link. Your article was incredibly helpful. Unfortunately all of your links to products are no longer serviceable. I was wondering what type of vessel you used for the vessel. That end is used to depressurize so it should need such stringent pressure ratings. The 45g C02 cartridges aren't ideal for a collection vessel, as one port is on top, and the other is on the bottom. I would want a collection vessel with two ports on top.

We used SCUBA tanks. Their operating pressure is 3000 to 3500 psi.

 

[vapeitgud]

Which links are down?

Both the gfistainless, and the eagelstainless links lead to a website but not to the product mentioned.

Sorry my message was riddled with typos. I was wondering what vessel you used for the collection not the extraction. The one you had a link to eaglestainless.

 

[vapeitgud]

20 mpa is about 3ksi. Techincally that is adequate for 1500 psi, but due to possibilities of manufacturing flaws, ASME Section VIII pressure vessel code would require 3X or 4500 psi.

Ideally I would like to find a seller that can tell me the actual manufacturers specifications for the cartridge. Unfortunately I haven't been able to thus far. Most sources quote the 20 mpa that it was tested by the seller at. But one and only one mentions "Maximum pressure resistance: 25MPA / 3600psi." I admit I'm not very familiar with these terms.

 

[vapeitgud]

20 mpa is about 3ksi. Techincally that is adequate for 1500 psi, but due to possibilities of manufacturing flaws, ASME Section VIII pressure vessel code would require 3X or 4500 psi.

So even if I could be sure that the 20mpa is the operating pressure and not the burst pressure these cartridges would not have a high enough rating for a 1500psi extraction. For subcritical with the highest pressure being 1100psi(3300psi rated tank needed for safety) it would work if the 20mpa is operating pressure meaning burst should be around 4000psi. However including heating around 30-35c in unsure how much that effects the 700psi difference between my needed 3300psi and the 4000psi.

Not sure if all that was correct, I'm not very knowledgeable on this subject matter. And it doesn't matter unless I can find some reputable specifications for these cartridges. If I had equipment for machining, and the skills to do it I might just try and make a vessel myself. But I don't.

 

[Lou66]

I am going to be running subcritical extractions, so I can really only extract terpenes and cannabiniods. As liquid C02 isn't a strong enough silent to pull out waxes, lipids, chlorophyll, etc without bringing it to supercritical levels.

Sorry but that makes no sense. Waxes, terpenes and cannabinoids have similiar polarity
If you extract one you extract the others. The beauty of scfe is that you extract everything, selectivly precipitate your desired compounds (and can reintroduce it to the solid in the case of decaf coffee).
That requires a system that allows precise control over process parameters *and* a developed protocoll to know what parameters (at which timepoint) give the desired result. To optimize that you need access to analytical equipment to verify results.

sure you can rig something up, diy a control system, pick up a used GC and start developing. But by the time you have a better product than a solventless extract a year has passed.

(all this implies you know engineering, electronics and chemistry)

 

[vapeitgud]

Sorry but that makes no sense. Waxes, terpenes and cannabinoids have similiar polarity
If you extract one you extract the others. The beauty of scfe is that you extract everything, selectivly precipitate your desired compounds (and can reintroduce it to the solid in the case of decaf coffee).
That requires a system that allows precise control over process parameters *and* a developed protocoll to know what parameters (at which timepoint) give the desired result. To optimize that you need access to analytical equipment to verify results.

sure you can rig something up, diy a control system, pick up a used GC and start developing. But by the time you have a better product than a solventless extract a year has passed.

(all this implies you know engineering, electronics and chemistry)

Well it made at least a little sense to me. I will admit that I don't have an extensive knowledge or much of any education in the fields of engineering, electronics, or chemistry. It was my understanding that C02 is a tunable extraction method, and that is one of the reasons one might choose C02 over something like ethanol. It was my further understanding that terpenes can be selectively removed without removing cannabiniods, or waxes and lipids. I've spoken with a company that does just that during decarboxilation prior to a C02 SCFE extraction. They do so to avoid degradation of the terpenes during the supercritical extraction. I was also of the understanding that "subcritical" C02 extraction (which is what I referred to, you only mentioned super critical extraction) was different than SCFE. The difference being that liquid C02 isn't as strong of a solvent as supercritical C02, and therefore unable to pull out waxes, lipids, chlorophyll, etc. It was my understanding that commercial companies did SCFE extractions to have extraction times more inline with the amount of time that ethanol extractions took. Doing so creates the need for further remediation of the extract called "winterization". I've never found anything stating that "winterization" was needed for subcritical extractions. I have seen videos showing the difference between the extract of subcritical and supercritical C02 extractions. The subcritical extract was a thick oil that was somewhat transparent, whilst the supercritical extract was a more waxy substance that had an opaque yellow appearance.

 

[vapeitgud]

Sorry but that makes no sense. Waxes, terpenes and cannabinoids have similiar polarity
If you extract one you extract the others. The beauty of scfe is that you extract everything, selectivly precipitate your desired compounds (and can reintroduce it to the solid in the case of decaf coffee).
That requires a system that allows precise control over process parameters *and* a developed protocoll to know what parameters (at which timepoint) give the desired result. To optimize that you need access to analytical equipment to verify results.

sure you can rig something up, diy a control system, pick up a used GC and start developing. But by the time you have a better product than a solventless extract a year has passed.

(all this implies you know engineering, electronics and chemistry)

To touch upon the statement you made about not being able to extract terpenes, cannabiniods, and waxes separately. In fadedawgs article he mentions the option of doing an extraction at 850 psi(in the subcritical range) to extract only the terpenes, and then doing a second higher psi extraction for the cannabiniods. Are you saying this is incorrect?

 

[vapeitgud]

I mean to be frank you're not making sense as some of your statements contradict reality. There are actual people extracting terpenes independently of cannabiniods and waxes, and people extracting terpenes and cannabinoids separately from waxes.

 

[ShowMeDaBudz]

Ive sampled some CO2 oil vape carts and i wont go back to distillates when the pricing is close enough. I can also get grams of CO2 oil and i think the flavor is better than hydrocarbon extraction.

One of these days i would like a "table top" CO2 but not at 4-5grand i dont.

 

[vapeitgud]

Ive sampled some CO2 oil vape carts and i wont go back to distillates when the pricing is close enough. I can also get grams of CO2 oil and i think the flavor is better than hydrocarbon extraction.

One of these days i would like a "table top" CO2 but not at 4-5grand i dont.

I've never actually tried a C02 distillate. But I do share your sentiment it is an incredibly clean extract.

 

[ShowMeDaBudz]

I've never actually tried a C02 distillate. But I do share your sentiment it is an incredibly clean extract.

Ive tried several. Gold Rush Extracts sells the carts and syringes of CO2 oil. I can get the gram syringe for as low as $30 locally and .5gram carts for around $25. Their Mo Kush and Wedding Cake were by far the best tasting concentrate i ever had.

 

[vapeitgud]

Ive tried several. Gold Rush Extracts sells the carts and syringes of CO2 oil. I can get the gram syringe for as low as $30 locally and .5gram carts for around $25. Their Mo Kush and Wedding Cake were by far the best tasting concentrate i ever had.

Yea one of the reasons C02 might be more desirable as an extraction method is because it preserves the terpenes better. However supercritical extraction can still cause some degradation to terpenes. I've read that the process for getting live resin through C02 is too freeze dry the flower, and then do a subcritical C02 extraction.

 

[curious2garden]

Ok now we are just arguing about posting. Let's stop because I don't want to lock this thread. Simply take what you need and leave the rest. Thanks guys

 

[ShowMeDaBudz]

Funds permitting i would love to try a "consumer type table top" model but $4000+ is tuff to swallow.

 

[vapeitgud]

Funds permitting i would love to try a "consumer type table top" model but $4000+ is tuff to swallow.

Yea especially cause those systems don't include the 20lb C02 tanks needed for it which run around 150-200 each.

 

[vapeitgud]

We used SCUBA tanks. Their operating pressure is 3000 to 3500 psi.

Are these scuba tanks the same as standard aluminum CO2 tanks the pressure rating seems to be the same. I can only find carbon fiber scuba tanks that are rated to 4500psi, and aluminum tank that are treated for 3000psi.

I've decided to swap the 45g CO2 cartridge for a 316 stainless steel spool rated for pressures up to 6000psi. I was lucky to find a good deal on two small spools from best value vacs.

I plan on using a pipe band heater to heat the CO2 supply tank, while I don't plan on doing supercritical CO2 extractions I may want to experiment with them. You mentioned that the pressure rating would be 3x the pressures I plan on working with. So the 3000psi CO2 tank would be rather limiting to work with. Any advice on whether or not the carbon fiber tanks would be better for this application?