Supplementing HPS with UVB LEDs

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nabux

Member
Hi all

I'm a lazy poster but have lurked for some time. Most questions have already been asked so never needed to ask anything myself!

I've been reading about UV light, and have set my mind on trying out supplementing my HPS with UVB.

It seems that 300nm LEDs would be the most practical solution for me, since I don't really want anything else. Maybe some other specific wavelengths my HPS is low on, like 440nm.

Reptile lamps seem to give very little UVB and a lot of ineffectual wavelenghts.

Mercury vapor lamps run too hot, and also give a lot of unusable light. I've got enough heat as it is.

The biggest question is how much UVB would be optimal, wouldn't want to overdo it. My space is 1m*1m which is ~11 square feet with 2x400W HPS / Sunmaster dual-spec bulbs. The panel I'm eyeing right now has 25*3W LEDs with 50W actual draw. If it's all UVB can that be too much? Probably still way less UVB than sunlight? I don't know the operating efficiency of the LEDs in question but the output can't be much more than 5-7W, right?

I'm ordering a custom panel and will get to choose the exact wavelengths.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

If I get this done I might find the courage to post some pics.
 
S

SnotBoogie

Well-Known Member
Id imagine you'd want it very nicely spread out for that kinda setup - which might mean DIYing your own panel. I have not heard of the panel youre mentioning.

I've seen people using floro/t5 style UVB bulbs, I think theyre meant for aquariums maybe, same problem as your reptile lamps?
 
Scotch089

Scotch089

Well-Known Member
The tech just isn't there for UVB LEDs yet, not the same affect you're gonna get with T5 or T8's... The affect we're all looking for ;)

Goes for IR light too
 
stardustsailor

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
Ok .....

Does any of you guys , happen to know the prices of uvb leds ?
I'll give you a hint ....

Today's prices per unit ..

uvb leds.jpguvb leds 2.jpg...


So .....
 
N

nabux

Member
O M F G !

Price tends to be the last thing I consider when I really want something, I thought I could stand the damage even if it's a month's pay.

Terribly wrong. Turns out it would require a second mortgage.

Also the guy who promised to make me one lost his cred as he clearly didn't know what he was talking about. On the other hand, we did not discuss the price yet. But now I really doubt 3W UVB leds even exist.

Maybe the prices will come down to an acceptable level in 30-40 years so I can DIY it if I'm alive then.

I'm going for T5.

Thank you for the input, you've been most helpful!
 
R

RainerRocks

Active Member
Either he was trying to pull the wool over your eyes or
he confused Violet UV with UVB.

Call him out on it and let us know his explanation.



nabux said:
O M F G !

Price tends to be the last thing I consider when I really want something, I thought I could stand the damage even if it's a month's pay.

Terribly wrong. Turns out it would require a second mortgage.

Also the guy who promised to make me one lost his cred as he clearly didn't know what he was talking about. On the other hand, we did not discuss the price yet. But now I really doubt 3W UVB leds even exist.

Maybe the prices will come down to an acceptable level in 30-40 years so I can DIY it if I'm alive then.

I'm going for T5.

Thank you for the input, you've been most helpful!
Click to expand...
 
PSUAGRO.

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
stardustsailor said:
Ok .....

Does any of you guys , happen to know the prices of uvb leds ?
I'll give you a hint ....

Today's prices per unit ..

View attachment 2505906View attachment 2505904...


So .....
Click to expand...
Lol I know .........I always find it funny when led panel manufacturers say uv-b/a or ir leds are being used in their panels==waste of space/watts----The one's that do work cost as much as the Harley -Davidson motorcycles you love SDS.
 
stardustsailor

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
PSUAGRO. said:
Lol I know .........I always find it funny when led panel manufacturers say uv-b/a or ir leds are being used in their panels==waste of space/watts----The one's that do work cost as much as the Harley -Davidson motorcycles you love SDS.
Click to expand...
Yup ...
Anyway ..
UVb light is really a way complex matter by it's own ...

Well there are some UVA (365 nm ) worth testing ..
Still being expensive ...
uva.jpg
 
N

nabux

Member
RainerRocks said:
Either he was trying to pull the wool over your eyes or
he confused Violet UV with UVB.

Call him out on it and let us know his explanation.
Click to expand...
When I made the inquiry I asked for 300nm UVB specifically. The answer I got was something like "No problem, we can arrange any wavelength you want". The seller probably didn't have a clue what I was talking about and could not be bothered to find out. Funny how no one here had any problems understanding what I meant..

I'll keep an eye on this as the technology advances. It's just that the market for these is probably quite small which will keep the prices high longer.

Also it seems I need to start thinking about UVA too. Those prices, while still too high, look much better! Maybe in a few years?

Solarium fluorescents were one possibility, but they didn't seem sexy enough for the price.

For now, I went for the dirt cheap option as I couldn't get what I really wanted: 2x30W fluorescents. They're T8 reptile tubes actually, but the spectre looks ok with a wide peak in the UV extending well into UVB and a sharp one at around 435nm:
 

Attachments

hotrodharley

hotrodharley

Well-Known Member
10.0 UVB spiral CFL reptile bulbs have useful light up to 20" away. They work. They cost less than $20 apiece and a cheap bowl reflector handles them. It simply requires a few of them for a large number of plants due to the short distance it is useful in.
 
Kite High

Kite High

Well-Known Member
hotrodharley said:
10.0 UVB spiral CFL reptile bulbs have useful light up to 20" away. They work. They cost less than $20 apiece and a cheap bowl reflector handles them. It simply requires a few of them for a large number of plants due to the short distance it is useful in.
Click to expand...
in testing with a uvb meter they do NOT emit enough at 2 inches away and alot of the cfl reptile lamps also emit ucv which we do not want at all
 
N

nabux

Member
hotrodharley said:
10.0 UVB spiral CFL reptile bulbs have useful light up to 20" away. They work. They cost less than $20 apiece and a cheap bowl reflector handles them. It simply requires a few of them for a large number of plants due to the short distance it is useful in.
Click to expand...
There are also huge differences between different brands. Just because something is labeled as 10.0 doesn't mean it's any good. It's just the proportion of UVB of the total radiant flux. "Useful light up to 20" away" is taken straight from tube seller's marketing and is irrelevant. Only thing that matters here is emitted UVB radiation measured as µW or µW/cm2.

Most of the actual measurements I found are badly outdated, as is this one, but it serves well to prove a point as here a 5.0 tube clearly outperforms a 8.0 tube. Both are from well-known manufacturers.
www.testudo.cc

These are manufacturer's own claims but still very impressive:
http://www.arcadia-reptile.com/fluorescent-lamps/t5-d3plus-desert/
This is the tube rec'd by Kite High. Most manufacturers don't even tell us the actual UVB outputs, most likely because they can't touch this one.

A CFL is inferior to an electronically ballasted straight tube by principle. Worse coefficient and bigger losses in reflection. Even Arcadia doesn't advertise µW/cm2 values of their CFLs. They only seem to be useful when you cannot fit enough T5s in your space.

The T5 HOs are not exactly expensive either.

I don't mean to sound like mister know-it-all all of a sudden but I've been doing a lot of homework and this is what I found. The facts are there for anyone to verify.
 
Kite High

Kite High

Well-Known Member
nabux said:
There are also huge differences between different brands. Just because something is labeled as 10.0 doesn't mean it's any good. It's just the proportion of UVB of the total radiant flux. "Useful light up to 20" away" is taken straight from tube seller's marketing and is irrelevant. Only thing that matters here is emitted UVB radiation measured as µW or µW/cm2.

Most of the actual measurements I found are badly outdated, as is this one, but it serves well to prove a point as here a 5.0 tube clearly outperforms a 8.0 tube. Both are from well-known manufacturers.
www.testudo.cc

These are manufacturer's own claims but still very impressive:
http://www.arcadia-reptile.com/fluorescent-lamps/t5-d3plus-desert/
This is the tube rec'd by Kite High. Most manufacturers don't even tell us the actual UVB outputs, most likely because they can't touch this one.

A CFL is inferior to an electronically ballasted straight tube by principle. Worse coefficient and bigger losses in reflection. Even Arcadia doesn't advertise µW/cm2 values of their CFLs. They only seem to be useful when you cannot fit enough T5s in your space.

The T5 HOs are not exactly expensive either.

I don't mean to sound like mister know-it-all all of a sudden but I've been doing a lot of homework and this is what I found. The facts are there for anyone to verify.
Click to expand...
I can attest to the power of the arcadia t5 ho 12% of reading s of 450 uw/cm2 at 12 inches...the mh I posted delivers that level at 31 inches
 
Kite High

Kite High

Well-Known Member
PSUAGRO. said:
hey kite......have you tested your CMH bulbs? results?
Click to expand...
yes and nope not enough to matter....20 uw/cm2 at 12 inches when new and depletes rapidly to 7/8 ....which is what hps reads...mh is even worse believe it or not at 5 at 12 inches on a 6 month old bulb...also interesting is that the side lighting of uvb produces more profound effects than overhead

I am really addicted to the lighting side of this hobby as IMO we need or want to achieve sunlight indoors ...so many different sources blending into each from their design specification we can achieve it
 
PSUAGRO.

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
are those side lighting UVb results from personal experience or a study? interesting indeed........well if sulfur plasma delivers what it's promising, could get your wish Kite...
 
Kite High

Kite High

Well-Known Member
PSUAGRO. said:
are those side lighting UVb results from personal experience or a study? interesting indeed........well if sulfur plasma delivers what it's promising, could get your wish Kite...
Click to expand...
personal experience...yes it looks good but actually mh plasma is better...reliability and efficiency needs more work though but it is coming in that field I am sure....leds IMO are just beginning to show promise but wow pricing needs to mellow...I got a ton of $$$ in this already lol...I do not see Induction as going much further as in all fluorescent technologies...but I really already do have it between the cmh/T5/mh uvb and hps...what I meant by the mixing of sources and their overlapping spectrums...where one is weak the other is strong and the mix become pretty even...hell cmh is really similar to sunlight in its own merit
 
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