Supplementing HPS with UVB LEDs

The addition of UVb diodes as an enhancement is obviously not economically viable at today's price points. But beyond price I also would be concerned as to how these diodes would be used in an indoor garden whereby the gardener might look into the diode and do permanent damage to their vision. Especially if these diodes emit in the low UVb regions. Seems like an area where product liability lawsuits could potentially loom large.

A good HPS lamp should come in @ 1.8 uMol/watt, not counting depreciation, but how much of that is emitted in usable plant absorption spectra when it's red weighted is the subject of endless debate. I see the plant results from broad spectrum inda-gro lamps coming in at 1.5 uMole/watt and in some cases these lamps have been running for over two years producing consistent results. IMO the future advances in indoor garden lighting will be in the development of technologies and controls that bring the strengths, of what today we might consider to be competing technologies, together to benefit the end user.

good thread

nabux said:

Though we're wandering even farther off topic I just got to ask.. Any opinion on these new Philips CDM-TMW bulbs? I'm seriously considering trying one out though they seem to need their own specific ballast and use a different socket. To me the spectre looks brilliant, and its efficient at 1,9µmol/W but would like opinions from the more experienced.

https://www.all4plants.com/light-electricity/greenhouse-lighting/bulbs/philips-mastercolour-agro-315w/930/

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Best Bulb on the market by it's specs alone........Just the ballast is close to four hundred dollars, without the cords and reflector/ It's a very expensive startup

I know of only two people using it currently Whazzup and Tenthirty both are testing it and won't say much.....

If you can afford it and can find the parts... buy it and journal it here so I can watch..........good luck

CDM isn't this a ceramic metal halide? They rate this lamp @ 85% of initial PPF @ 20,000 hours which is great but if it's a halide I wonder how stable the halides are as they age? This goes back to crop repeatability...

well Chaz, if you believe Philips(it is a CMH) and ceramatek(ballast)numbers its a killer combo. Still a less than three percent lumen depreciation at ten thousand hours IS hard to imagine from a Halide. Stability will always be an issue, that's why it has a double sleeve and open fixture rating......almost 2ppf per watt is insane.

Philips says the UVb to be quite high on this bulb, But kite says he measured minuscule amounts off the retrowhite version ....interesting

http://www.cycloptics.com/sites/default/files/Utah State Elite Agro 315W Spectral Characterization Study.pdf they also concluded insignificant uvb on their test gear????the cool white T5 bulb put out more uvb---wow

nabux said:

Though we're wandering even farther off topic I just got to ask.. Any opinion on these new Philips CDM-TMW bulbs? I'm seriously considering trying one out though they seem to need their own specific ballast and use a different socket. To me the spectre looks brilliant, and its efficient at 1,9µmol/W but would like opinions from the more experienced.

https://www.all4plants.com/light-electricity/greenhouse-lighting/bulbs/philips-mastercolour-agro-315w/930/

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No personal experience with them but it appears they kick butt....here is someone who is utilizing it as well as a plethora of CMH USE info...I tell you these retro white perform gloriously and the color shift ov very minimal..absolutely love what they produce for me...higher quality with no yield losses...I do like the 1 hps - 2 cmh for flower as well

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=72215&page=303

These are purportedly kicking ass and taking names as well


http://www.gavita-holland.com/index.php/products/gavita-power-line-high-performance-lighting/category/north-america-4.html

In action
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/389301-1800-watts-sealed-co2-enriched-32.html

PSUAGRO. said:

well Chaz, if you believe Philips(it is a CMH) and ceramatek(ballast)numbers its a killer combo. Still a less than three percent lumen depreciation at ten thousand hours IS hard to imagine from a Halide. Stability will always be an issue, that's why it has a double sleeve and open fixture rating......almost 2ppf per watt is insane.

Philips says the UVb to be quite high on this bulb, But kite says he measured minuscule amounts off the retrowhite version ....interesting

http://www.cycloptics.com/sites/default/files/Utah%20State%20Elite%20Agro%20315W%20Spectral%20Characterization%20Study.pdf they also concluded insignificant uvb on their test gear????the cool white T5 bulb put out more uvb---wow

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While I am sure it produces tons of uvb Philips will have to change glass formulation to achieve emission which is a great deal more cost wise as it needs to include quartz so the need and demand will have to offset the increase in production costs before they would employ it

chazbolin said:

The addition of UVb diodes as an enhancement is obviously not economically viable at today's price points. But beyond price I also would be concerned as to how these diodes would be used in an indoor garden whereby the gardener might look into the diode and do permanent damage to their vision. Especially if these diodes emit in the low UVb regions. Seems like an area where product liability lawsuits could potentially loom large.

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True, it would be very daring to sell anyone a ready made product. If using UVB LEDs will be possible at some point its probably DIY only stuff. It's actually quite sad that people can't be held responsible anymore for their own actions. We are not children and can play with potentially harmful toys quite safely.
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About the CDM, I think I'll go for it later in the spring as I couldn't put it to use easily before then. I found an all-in-one type fixture I can source locally for around 500€. It's not cheap but if you compare prices with induction, plasma or even good LEDs it doesn't look that bad anymore. I thought maybe use it alone for veg and add 400W HPS for flowering. It would be nice to experiment with CDM only but that would require two of them. If it turns out to be as good as it looks I might get another one later.

if you can get the power of 1w-3w uvb leds for your plants, that would be insane, it would be supplemental lighting for flowering to actually produce resin
the first led company to sell these first is going to make a killing

Djengo said:

if you can get the power of 1w-3w uvb leds for your plants, that would be insane, it would be supplemental lighting for flowering to actually produce resin
the first led company to sell these first is going to make a killing

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Doesn't look like they'll be reality in a long time due to insane prices. As chazbolin pointed out, any company selling an UVB panel to the public would probably get killed in court bacause sooner or later someone would ruin their eyes with them. One problem with pure UVB is that it's easy to forget it's on as you couldn't see its light. Not good when people tend their plants baked. Good quality sunglasses would have to be worn at all times. Cab growers could use a door switch to turn the LEDs off when the door is opened but those can fail. They would have to be used responsibly. Too bad that can't be asked from consumers.

The CDM seems to have it all, spectre AND power. Only thing it's missing is the UVB... That's where the T5 HO tubes come in. Eye protection seems to be a good idea with those too!

nabux said:

Doesn't look like they'll be reality in a long time due to insane prices. As chazbolin pointed out, any company selling an UVB panel to the public would probably get killed in court bacause sooner or later someone would ruin their eyes with them. One problem with pure UVB is that it's easy to forget it's on as you couldn't see its light. Not good when people tend their plants baked. Good quality sunglasses would have to be worn at all times. Cab growers could use a door switch to turn the LEDs off when the door is opened but those can fail. They would have to be used responsibly. Too bad that can't be asked from consumers.

The CDM seems to have it all, spectre AND power. Only thing it's missing is the UVB... That's where the T5 HO tubes come in. Eye protection seems to be a good idea with those too!

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Chinese will...they dont give a fuck about court nor your eyes...

Kite High said:

Chinese will...they dont give a fuck about court nor your eyes...

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Good point. They don't seem to give fuck about anything. One of the reasons I try not to buy anything Chinese. Sometimes its unavoidable though when a lot of western companies make all their stuff there. When people buy cheap chinese copies they are shooting themselves in the leg IMO. When someone comes up with new tech its often only months before the copycats get their stuff out, not years like it was before. It's easy to sell cheap produts when you don't have to do any R/D or give a fuck about the environment and manpower is cheap.

All of this is slowly changing though. China is taking the lead in advancing the technology too and worker's salaries are going up, they aren't just copying anymore. Still, human rights mean a lot to me, as they probably do to everyone on this board as our rights are often violated. I'm not a big fan of any government but China is one of the worst. They're well on their way to major ecological crisis now and economical crisis will follow soon after.

Sorry for the rant, the state of our common world just sickens me.

Our government is at least as bad or worse..we have more people in cages than ANY other country as well as by far the most in cages for cannabis...that's just evil