wyteberrywidow
Global
That's not a baseball nug
TGA Strains Stable?
- Thread starter Trulife69
- Start date
Jogro
Well-Known Member
Yes, assuming inbred parents, F2s will show maximal variation.
To answer your question, "real" breeders won't release F2 hybrids, for precisely this reason.
I've had mostly good results with TGA. My Querkle did throw a few nanners and I found some of those tiny premature seeds, which are a lot more annoying than fully developed ones. That was mostly due to errors I made. Other than that JTR and Querkle were great. Running Vortex now. It seems to be very sensitive to nutes and hard to clone. We'll see how she goes.
Jogro
Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by Jogro
If the TGA parent plants were inbred lines ("true breeding"/"homozygotes"), then the F1 offspring would all be uniform, or nearly so, and there would be no issues with phenotype variation.
I posted earlier that in some cases heterozygosity is necessary to achieve certain phenotypes. So I agree with the first part. Absolutely, it can be the case where phenotype AB is drastically different than either AA or BB, and as you say, this phenomenon can complicate selection. As I mentioned earlier, some traits aren't controlled via single allelles, either, so you may not see 25-50-25% or 75-25% "Mendel's peas" ratios in the offspring either.
If either parent (let alone both) isn't really "true breeding" (eg its a hybrid) then you can expect all sorts of genetic variation in the F1 offspring. In reality, some of the so-called "true breeding" lines aren't really, and they'll throw off some phenotypic variation, which can be amplified in crossing.
But I still don't see how its possible to get significant phenotypic variation in an F1 cross from authentic true breeding parents.
The term "true breeding" implies that every phenotypically relevant gene locus in the strain is homozygous. In other words, by definition each "true breeding" parent should contain two IDENTICAL copies of every relevant gene.
If you cross two such lines, every offspring will necessarily inherit one identical copy of every gene from each parent and will be genetically uniform (or again, nearly so). Hence the term "TRUE BREEDING".
In other words, if for example you were to cross AABBCCDD x aabbccdd (two true breeding lines), all the offspring will be genotypically AaBbCcDd.
Now, because Aa might not look phenotypically like AA or aa (etc), these AaBbCcDd F1 plants may express a bunch of traits that aren't seen in either parent. Out of nowhere you have "new" traits not seen in either plant, and this is part of the so-called "hybrid vigor."
But because these F1 plants should all be genetically identical (or nearly so) each plant from this generation should be nearly the same as every other from the same generation. IE, there should be minimal phenotypic variation.
If you were to then cross two of these F1 AaBbCcDd plants into an F2, all bets would be off. You would potentially end up with literally 81 distinct genotypes in various ratios (every possible subset variation of AA, Aa, aa, BB, Bb, bb, etc), and each genotype could, in theory, have its own distinct phenotype.
In reality, since strains are defined by dozens of relevant allelles, not just four like my deliberately abbreviated example above, F2s produced this way can literally have THOUSANDS of different genotypes.
In practice, many of these different genotypes probably won't result in different phenotypes (eg if D is dominant over d, an AABbCcDD plant and a AABbCCDd plant may be phenotypically identical). But the genetic variation you can't see in "hidden" heterozygotes may come out to bite you later if you try to use these hybridized plants as a basis for further breeding.
raiderman
Well-Known Member
outlaw genetics F2s are the most awsome plants yule see on this side of eternity.2 phenos.that i dont under stand .
doc111
Well-Known Member
Most of Joey Weed's gear is F2's and it's outstanding IMO!!!!!
Clankie
Well-Known Member
I would really like someone to prove me wrong, but I am pretty sure you can't get his gear anywhere anymore.
15yearsofbreeding
Actually 15 years of Age
still no sub? i guess he's too busy moving his 5x5 grow and BREEDING ROOMS. we still here no delets? cant believe this. he's one to hide the truth ABOUT HIS UNSTABLE COMPANY and not one deleted post.
wyteberrywidow
Global
He can't delete this as he only can do that in his section.
raiderman
Well-Known Member
but i will say that wat i did get was uniform and beautiful as described..its jus that i got a bad pac once.have considered a time or 2 to give it another try...but if a persons gro room isnt timed in no tellin wat yule get.ppl think i came to smash tga was wrong.i love his qurkle and got 6 girls once.but thatwas a few yrs ago,i dont know at wat his gears like now.
raiderman
Well-Known Member
doesnt sound good.
raiderman
Well-Known Member
only Pot Roast can delete threads and i dont see it coming.
wyteberrywidow
Global
Me either as we are not doijg anything wrong and mods are in this thread so anything the doesn't seem fit will get edited,deleted whatever needs to be done.
I know this thread got out of hand a little bit but those people have since calmed down
I know this thread got out of hand a little bit but those people have since calmed down
Jogro
Well-Known Member
Its my understanding that "Joey Weed" is defunct.
If you're crossing polyhybrid F1s, you're going to get a gazillion phenotypes in the F2.
But if you're crossing two plants from the same inbred line then the F1s, F2s, F3s, etc, should all be substantially similar to each other.
So if you made your F2 by starting with someone else's stabilized or mostly stable line, then crossing two plants to make seeds, you may see very little phenotype variety in the F2.
Also, if your F2 is a backcross of an F1 and a parent, or another cross between plants that already have highly similar genetics, then you may also see a relatively limited number of phenotypes.
Again, to be clear here, how stable F2 plants are depends entirely on the genetics of the parent strains.
If you're crossing polyhybrid F1s, you're going to get a gazillion phenotypes in the F2.
But if you're crossing two plants from the same inbred line then the F1s, F2s, F3s, etc, should all be substantially similar to each other.
So if you made your F2 by starting with someone else's stabilized or mostly stable line, then crossing two plants to make seeds, you may see very little phenotype variety in the F2.
Also, if your F2 is a backcross of an F1 and a parent, or another cross between plants that already have highly similar genetics, then you may also see a relatively limited number of phenotypes.