The 25sft rule of Prop 19 - How Much Can I Really Grow?

tc1 said:

The whole "tobacco companies have bought land in Cali for growing pot" is a myth and they've even come out publicly and said this

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Philip Morris bought a whole lot of land in trinity county to grow if it becomes legal. Not a myth it is fact

beardo said:

Philip Morris bought a whole lot of land in trinity county to grow if it becomes legal. Not a myth it is fact

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[Citation needed]

I keep hearing this rumor but no one has any facts. Also, while Norcal is great for some strains, there are many more that would be better grown as far south as you can get(equitorial sativas - even socal isn't south enough for some). The future of commercial, large-scale growing, if there is one, is in large greenhouses. If you do that and control lighting, temps, CO2 and bugs, you can grow anywhere. You can also get near-indoor quality with economies of scale.

It'll boil down to what consumers want. Weed isn't just tobacco - everyone on here should know that. Individual strains could almost be considered different drugs. Are there different tobacco cigs out there that alternately make you sleepy or make you jumpy? No. MJ is more complicated. Also, how will consumers prefer to use MJ? Smoking? Edibles? Patches? Tinctures? Gum? If most people don't want to smoke the weed, you could grow it outdoors in the central valley where it would be the cheapest and post-process large quantities down to extracts. You're no longer as concerned with quality if you go that route.

I think a lot of stoners keep spreading the same rumors without really thinking it through.

stonedmetalhead1 said:

This bill is bullshit. No one is against legalization here they are against this particular bill. There are other bills that have been written they just aren't being voted on yet. For all of the people saying 25 sq. ft. is enough room for personal consumption who are you to say what one person can consume? As for the vertical grow solution, this can be done but it really only works with hydro. People who want this bill passed are selfish and only think about themselves. Whatever suits you, right? It's good enough for you why should you care if it doesn't benefit others? For the claims of the OP you're retarded: if you thing you can fit 26 mature plants in 5 gallon buckets in a 5x5 area, then you obviously don't have much experience. Your mathematics are flawed and you don't take all of the variables into consideration. That being said I bet this bill gets passed simply because the uneducated simple minded out number the educated thoughtful people in this country. While I'm all for democracy the majority will never be right simply because the majority of people are not educated and informed enough to make a responsible decision for every matter.

Why are all you people for this bill when their are better bill's already being considered? Why would you vote yes on this bill simply because it's the first one? I understand legalization is what we all want but this bill doesn't provide that. Why can't you make an informed decision and wait for a better bill to vote yes?

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Well right now you can grow 0 sq ft, so 25 is an improvement. Unless you're medical, but nothing changes for you anyway.

It's absolutely FALSE.

Tobacco companies are regulated by the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.
Marijuana will still be illegal federally even if Prop 19 passes. (For now)

Tobacco companies would be DONE if they even thought about getting into a business that is still federally illegal. They don't want that kinda heat .... they have enough as is.

Do people who grow weed in cali...do it without medical??? I can't imagine that...

And as for the 25...again I want to and I am sure many recreational users would want to do the same...GROW OUTDOORS!!!! You can grow tomatoes and other crap indoors and hydro...and some do...but most people grow their tomatoes outside in the glorious sun as indoors is impractical.

This lousy prop purposefully makes a 40 acre parcel with a few families living communally, only be able to grow a 25sqft patch...WHY IS THAT???? It is not hard to figure out...the writer of the prop is a large marijuana grower who wants to grow even more and reap the profits (not personal consumption!!!)...this is why the space is limited and the permit process is guaranteed to be too costly for most and disallowed by most communities.

I understand why Dick would do this (guaranteed less competition)...but I can't for the life of me understand creating a new felony for consuming cannabis in your home without hiding from minors like your smoking meth in the bathroom????

Oh and I just figured it out...yes some do grow in Cali without shelling out the ~$12 bucks a month to cover your ass...but they are either the 18 year old kids who wanna try to grow some pot in the closet of the new apartment...stuff always happens here (rats, thieves, early harvest etc) but also larger criminal types that are slinging like it's cool...and these dudes are stealing their electricity...cuz allowing me to hide in a tent with HID so I can grow year round is freaking cost prohibitive!!! I know I have been doing it for 2 years and do not sell...it is expensive to run even a 400, fans and A/C especially!!! Also that does NOT! mean legalization...it makes it so the majority will be forced to buy Dicks buds rather than just those who do not have the patience and choose to buy weed.

Just because talented growers with expensive equipment and bros buying affordable buds off them to cover the power, can with high yielding strains produce plenty of personal stash does not equal legalization but decriminalization. Anyone who does not have the patience to wait for a prop that not only actually legalizes pot but releases potheads from jail...remember cops are pussies and know that real drug users carry guns and some even know how to use them...picking on potheads make them feel good. Does not have the patience to grow anyway



Edit:

hayduke, you're a sweetheart and i love you to pieces, but seriously; you're holding out for something that will "set the captives free?" never (and i mean never) gonna happen for a variety of reasons: not the least of which is that the non-stoners who we are counting on to pass this thing will never vote to set criminals free (unfortunately every single one of the people behind bars for the crime of posession, transport, cultivation or whatever currently are in fact criminals, and you can't get the necessary traction from the overwhelming majority of the populace who view us as such... what this prop *will do* is show the country that it is sustainable, that the planes will not start immediately crashing into buildings, that potheads aren't gonna be running wild (or much more wild than we already are), and that it's not that big a deal... if this prop fails, it will be seen as a referendum on the whole decrim/legalization movement and it will take much longer for us to gain mainstream approval for our chosen form of self expression, medication, meditation, relaxation (whatever you do it for)... so vote your conscience and allow the rest of us to have a viewpoint as well... sincerely, with respect.

When Murderers and rapist are paroled because of overcrowding and it cost more than twice what I make a year to house a convict...I believe people will support letting pot heads out of mandatory minimums to make room for the John Gardener's (kidnapped raped and murdered 2 local girls after being paroled for a violent rape of a 16 year old) of the World...but maybe not.

The State was court ordered to reduce the prison population and The Governator had a chance to do this...but chose to release those convicted for property crimes...burglars, robbers, and theives...job security for the gangs in Khaki and blue.

This prop is poorly written which will leave it tied up in court...sending a message to the rest of the country all right...that not even Cali could make this work...And I personally do not believe that this has anything to do with legalization and everything to do with Dick Lee becoming more than just a resemblance of Bill Gates but filthy fooking rich. And I personally can not vote for a bill that makes what I do on a daily basis and have for years...a freaking felony.

I totally respect the notion that we should each vote our conscience...but mine also compels me encourage others to think about the real ramifications of passage rather than just the pipe dream novelty and to think critically about the motives of those behind the language and the amount of money spent to get this on the ballot...Is Richard Lee doing this because he is an altruistic pot philanthropist??? I think not.

The only people I know that are for this in California are kids and the one cop I am acquainted with through dog sport.

Think about it this way...If serious smokers could grow all they wanted...because it is legal...and the smoke on friday night to be cool crowd buys their little bags from the quikee mart every couple of weeks...would there be any need for Warehouse size commercial gardens? Nope. and Dick has quite a bit of competition in the medical arena...some of which he may have even trained at his silly school.

I apologize for my passionate opinion and certainly do not mean to offend anyone..just please vote know

Small point of contention... if the incident you're talking about is the same I'm thinking about, I'm pretty sure it was the county courts and municipal law enforcement agencies that screwed up, not Schwarzenegger. The intent of the court order was intended to release non-violent offenders in state facilities. Unfortunately, what happened is that the county and local cities instead let out a shedload of THEIR prison populations. Most of which were, of course, in jail at the time for violent offenses of various sorts. That's one example of why I also do not trust the wording of Prop. 19. Local municipalities have shown no qualms about interpreting both ambiguous and some fairly direct laws as they see fit. Trusting that they will regulate cannabis in a fair and equitable manner is folly.

TokinPodPilot said:

Small point of contention... if the incident you're talking about is the same I'm thinking about, I'm pretty sure it was the county courts and municipal law enforcement agencies that screwed up, not Schwarzenegger. The intent of the court order was intended to release non-violent offenders in state facilities. Unfortunately, what happened is that the county and local cities instead let out a shedload of THEIR prison populations. Most of which were, of course, in jail at the time for violent offenses of various sorts. That's one example of why I also do not trust the wording of Prop. 19. Local municipalities have shown no qualms about interpreting both ambiguous and some fairly direct laws as they see fit. Trusting that they will regulate cannabis in a fair and equitable manner is folly.

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Well said. There's a lot of stupid in local government.

TokinPodPilot said:

Small point of contention... if the incident you're talking about is the same I'm thinking about, I'm pretty sure it was the county courts and municipal law enforcement agencies that screwed up, not Schwarzenegger. The intent of the court order was intended to release non-violent offenders in state facilities. Unfortunately, what happened is that the county and local cities instead let out a shedload of THEIR prison populations. Most of which were, of course, in jail at the time for violent offenses of various sorts. That's one example of why I also do not trust the wording of Prop. 19. Local municipalities have shown no qualms about interpreting both ambiguous and some fairly direct laws as they see fit. Trusting that they will regulate cannabis in a fair and equitable manner is folly.

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This is true...but it was the trickle down from the courts ordering the Governor to reduce State prison populations. Arney decided who would be released from prison.

But yeah...it will be the same for prop 19. In non-pot friendly counties like where I live, it will be tied up in courts for a long time...but check it out...It will not be opposed by Alameda County (and others of course) or the city of Oakland...and guess what...Dick gets to start his mega garden and be able to handle gradual expansion to the southern and eastern counties in good time.

Watch for this Dick to be franchising turn-key commercial grow operations...

Dick won't live long enough to go anywhere.

This law will make deadly enemies of those this law hurts.

veggiegardener said:

Dick won't live long enough to go anywhere.

This law will make deadly enemies of those this law hurts.

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I have wondered the same...Oakland is no joke.

mrFancyPlants said:

Well right now you can grow 0 sq ft, so 25 is an improvement. Unless you're medical, but nothing changes for you anyway.

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Their are other bill in the works that allow you more rights. Prop 19 is just the first bill up for vote and is written by people who want to control the market. Keep being a tool and go ahead and vote your rights away, I don't care.

stonedmetalhead1 said:

Their are other bill in the works that allow you more rights. Prop 19 is just the first bill up for vote and is written by people who want to control the market. Keep being a tool and go ahead and vote your rights away, I don't care.

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Prop 19 is the first legalization bill to hit the ballot in 30+ years ....

It's not that easy.

exactly...this will kill the good one if it passes...

We need to get it right the first time...or pay the price. 215's language was clear, and it took a long time before safe access outside the Bay area. It really has not been that safe until the last year with the Supreme Court Decision against SB420. Voting for unreasonable restrictions (outdoor is for those who want to grow it...indoors is for those that want to hide it) and new felony crimes is unconscionable.

Have fun waiting another 30 years ....

tc1 said:

Have fun waiting another 30 years ....

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There are already other bills written and going through the process. Prop 19 will give all the power to a select few and allow them to control the market.

It's not going to be 30 years, keep trying to scare people into voting yes on this shitty bill. People hear legalize, proceed to giz in their pants, and don't read between the lines to see who this really benefits.

stonedmetalhead1 said:

This bill is bullshit. No one is against legalization here they are against this particular bill. There are other bills that have been written they just aren't being voted on yet. For all of the people saying 25 sq. ft. is enough room for personal consumption who are you to say what one person can consume? As for the vertical grow solution, this can be done but it really only works with hydro. People who want this bill passed are selfish and only think about themselves. Whatever suits you, right? It's good enough for you why should you care if it doesn't benefit others? For the claims of the OP you're retarded: if you thing you can fit 26 mature plants in 5 gallon buckets in a 5x5 area, then you obviously don't have much experience. Your mathematics are flawed and you don't take all of the variables into consideration. That being said I bet this bill gets passed simply because the uneducated simple minded out number the educated thoughtful people in this country. While I'm all for democracy the majority will never be right simply because the majority of people are not educated and informed enough to make a responsible decision for every matter.

Why are all you people for this bill when their are better bill's already being considered? Why would you vote yes on this bill simply because it's the first one? I understand legalization is what we all want but this bill doesn't provide that. Why can't you make an informed decision and wait for a better bill to vote yes?

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Thank you!

"God is great, man is not;
Man made whiskey, God made pot!"

Love it!

stonedmetalhead1 said:

There are already other bills written and going through the process. Prop 19 will give all the power to a select few and allow them to control the market.

It's not going to be 30 years, keep trying to scare people into voting yes on this shitty bill. People hear legalize, proceed to giz in their pants, and don't read between the lines to see who this really benefits.

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There's been HUNDREDS of bills written that have never hit the ballot. Prop 19 gives power to local cities, and ONLY in regard to commercial sales.

Prohibition swings back and forth ... you have to know when to strike. Waiting another 2 years to pass legislation might be too little too late. The climate is right at present ... will it be in 2 years? Who knows. But I can tell you this, A bill like the Jack Herer bill has ZERO shot of passing. And even if it did, 90% of anti-prop 19'ers would STILL vote no.

This isn't about "wording" .... it's about money and "keeping mine". You know ... the status quo.