The feasibility of "No Till" for indoor growing?

Jack Harer

Jack Harer

Well-Known Member
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]OnceI had embarked on the journey into organi[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]cs, [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Itook the bit between the teeth and charged full ahead. I embracedevery "sustainable" practice that made sense to me (Andthere were a whole lot of them).[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]I'vebeen thinking a lot here lately just how much of my efforts arereally needed in my grow environment. I grow in 2 gal bags on a floodtable, not a large indoor raised bed. While I DO recycle my soil, andwill continue to do so, I really see no way to achieve the "NoTill" ideal using my grow methodology. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Notill preserves the soil structure and the micro colony, no doubt about it, and if done properly will become self-sustaining (adding biochar/terra preta).This takes several crop cycles(or years) to even start to become self sustaining. I guess what I'm wondering is if my recycled soil will become self-sustaining, even tho I am wreaking havoc on the micro colony at harvest time. I put all my used soil in a lg container, shake out the rootballs (which get composted along with everything else) I re-amend the soil before use, and it still seems to have a good micro-colony already established. So just how much of my efforts are for naught in my organic endeavor?
If I were growing out doors, then all of the no till mindset would be totally applicable and we wouldn't be in this conversation. I know that many of y'all out there ARE doing "no till" indoors, and I'd like your feedback. Here lately since my surgery, I have been feeling that I'm chasing ghosts. I have no problem with the extra effort involved, "IF" there is a real payoff involved, and not just a perceived one.[/FONT]
 
It works better in larger pots. 7 gal minimum. That's what I use. Everyone else is using 10, 15, 20, 45 gal pots. Mixing up your used soil. As long as you add compost and worm castings and water it down with a tea it should be fine. If you plan on staying with small pots that's way would be better. Its hard not to disturb the soil in a 2 gal when transplanting into it.

the no till method does get better each batch. I'm on round 5 now with 7 gals. I would like to move up to 10 gals. I think that would take up too much room for what I'm doing.
 
I'm glad you were first to chime in there Hyroot. I respect a whole lot of what you say (OK, everything gets respect, I agree with MOST of what ya say!! LOL!) Ya really think that no till makes a diff, even in pots as small as 7 gal? No possible way for me to do those sized pots. Or indoor raised beds either.
 
Check out the ROLS thread or the Mi med ROLS threads. Tons of helpful pointers on no-till indoor. I achieved some of my highest yields ever using 30 gal rubbermaid totes. Almost 8oz off one but avg closer to 3.

If you don't reamend properly your yields will go down over time, though. At least that is what happened to me.
 
Thanx Fattie, yeah, I've read (and contributed to) the ROLS thread. GREAT information in there. I have (and read) Teeming with Microbes, and MANY other references, I follow Elaine Ingham like a stalker!! I've about optimized my yields per sq/ft by lolli-popping, hence my questioning the feasibility of no till in my methodology.
 
I'm right there with ya Jack. I'm using 5 gallon pots and have been told that is the very minimum size that can be used for no-till. I am going to try out a no-till on a couple buckets and will let you know how it turns out. For the time being I'm doing exactly what you do. Dump the soil out on to a tarp, re-amend it, wet it down, dump it in to a rubbermaid container and let it sit for 5-6 weeks, then use it again.
 
I do the dump/reamend/remix(roots and all)/moisten routine with 7-10 gal pots (10-gal exclusively from here on). I may try a no-til next round using this round's 10-gal's, but I can't decide...

I can't/won't go any bigger than 10-gal due to limited space and a desire to save my back. If I had a convenient way to run 20+ gallon pots, I would do no-til without giving it a second thought.
 
I used to dump, remove roots, and re amend. I'd spend 3 hours probably doing that with 8 -10 7gals. Plus the time of filling up and transplanting into pots. Now I spend 30 min digging holes big enough to transplant and then transplant into pots. It's much less work. I would use far less castings and compost topdressing rather than mixing into soil. 1 bag of each mixing into 56 gals of soil. With topdressing it would be about 1/3 a bag of each. I make own vermicompost and it takes along time to make. Using less is easier so I don't have to buy any. Homemade vc is far better than store bought
 
When you don't break the soil down and just do what hyroot does, you would be amazed at the little ecosystem that is your bucket. I had some ladybugs and centipedes that would appear and take care of pests. I know I have seen others post about praying mantises(sic?)and predator wasps. Pretty cool..if you don't mind bugs.
 
Yep. For the most part, ANYTHING homemade is better. I started to set up a worm bed, but sat and thought about where I was go with this, and where I was gonna draw the line. I already had a bio-char oven, composting, and a cement mixer for making soils. Did I also want a large rabbit hutch, a worm bed, find an inhabited bat cave? Along with a good sized "no till" veggie and pepper garden? Truck in Kelp whenever I go to Charleston? This was (and still is) becoming exceedingly labor intensive. Not necessarily a BAD thing per se, but I find myself doing less and less of the things I really liked doing and spending more and more time in a "garden state". I could just be evolving......
 
^^^^^^^^^^^ Once it gets going.It's less work. everything is self sustaining to a point. Starting a worm bin. You only feed them a few times through the first month. Then once or twice a week after that. It only takes a few min to feed the worms. Thats worth saving $30-$40 a bag of castings and $10-$20 a bag of compost. making your own is far better quality..
 
Jack Harer said:
Yep. For the most part, ANYTHING homemade is better. I started to set up a worm bed, but sat and thought about where I was go with this, and where I was gonna draw the line. I already had a bio-char oven, composting, and a cement mixer for making soils. Did I also want a large rabbit hutch, a worm bed, find an inhabited bat cave? Along with a good sized "no till" veggie and pepper garden? Truck in Kelp whenever I go to Charleston? This was (and still is) becoming exceedingly labor intensive. Not necessarily a BAD thing per se, but I find myself doing less and less of the things I really liked doing and spending more and more time in a "garden state". I could just be evolving......
Click to expand...

I'm feeling ya again Jack (I hope that doesn't sound bad)! Mixing soils, sourcing amendments, compost piles, etc. Very labor intensive! I will tell you this, though .... the easiest part, and most beneficial part (for my garden anyway) has been the worm bin. I *might* mess with that once every other week. And even then it's only for a few minutes. I like being able to toss table scraps in there, or even the spent material from an alfalfa/kelp tea. The worms go to town on that stuff. It's super-duper easy to maintain once you have it set up and the worms have settled in, with the bonus of creating the best input on earth for your soil free of charge! Highly recommended! The not-till thingy would make this a lot less work too. I really like the idea of not having to mess with all of that soil every few weeks. My saving grace is that I really do enjoy all of this organic stuff. I find it kind of therapeutic in a way that I never found before with all of the bottles. I hope that continues...
 
Jack HArer, lol I see now. I just now found out that the real Jack Herer died in 2010 and for a solid week I've been thinkin that you were really him lmao. when I saw your avatar I was like holy shit, the legend himself is in the ROLS thread! Its all good though you seem like a cool knowledgable/experienced guy. Lol I even sent you a post complimenting you on Jack's strain. Lol I guess I got starstruck or something haha. anyway back to reality, I guess I need to open up some more books lol. I am glad to see you doing well after your latest surgery though. Best of wishes on your speedy recovery!
 
SeniorFrostyKush said:
Jack HArer, lol I see now. I just now found out that the real Jack Herer died in 2010 and for a solid week I've been thinkin that you were really him lmao. when I saw your avatar I was like holy shit, the legend himself is in the ROLS thread! Its all good though you seem like a cool knowledgable/experienced guy. Lol I even sent you a post complimenting you on Jack's strain. Lol I guess I got starstruck or something haha. anyway back to reality, I guess I need to open up some more books lol. I am glad to see you doing well after your latest surgery though. Best of wishes on your speedy recovery!
Click to expand...

Thanx bro. This was the 2nd carotid clean out. I had the right side done last year. It was all that clean livin'!! For the most part I grew an original JH, and some other genetics I came up with myself from the beans I gathered travelling in the Caribbean & SA. But I LOVED that JH. Since the shitheads got my genetics a few years ago, I'm looking at Sannies Jack to replace it.
When I came up with the idea of the avatar, (It WAS Budz Bunny) I figured that everyone would get the HARE reference. I've been called some less than savory names over it! I figured it would somehow pay tribute to a great man. Some get it, some don't. You did! WAY too many people claim to admire the guy but can't even spell his name. Go figger! I think I'm staying with Jack Harer, I don't want problems with Disney!! At least Jacks wife Jeanniehasn't threatened to sue!!

st0wandgrow said:
I'm feeling ya again Jack (I hope that doesn't sound bad)! Mixing soils, sourcing amendments, compost piles, etc. Very labor intensive! I will tell you this, though .... the easiest part, and most beneficial part (for my garden anyway) has been the worm bin. I *might* mess with that once every other week. And even then it's only for a few minutes. I like being able to toss table scraps in there, or even the spent material from an alfalfa/kelp tea. The worms go to town on that stuff. It's super-duper easy to maintain once you have it set up and the worms have settled in, with the bonus of creating the best input on earth for your soil free of charge! Highly recommended! The not-till thingy would make this a lot less work too. I really like the idea of not having to mess with all of that soil every few weeks. My saving grace is that I really do enjoy all of this organic stuff. I find it kind of therapeutic in a way that I never found before with all of the bottles. I hope that continues...
Click to expand...

Dude, on top of all I had going on, I drive 125mi to a friend who has a worm farm. I get his private stock for $12/40lb bag. I also have 4 rabbit breeders within a hundred mi radius where I collect bunny poo, 2 grocery stores where I get outdated veggies, 2 waffle houses that save me coffee grounds and egg shells. My buddies dad started the worm farm in the 60's from a popular science ad that said raising worms for bait was big business. They quickly found out where the REAL money was.
 
Jack Harer said:
Thanx bro. This was the 2nd carotid clean out. I had the right side done last year. It was all that clean livin'!! For the most part I grew an original JH, and some other genetics I came up with myself from the beans I gathered travelling in the Caribbean & SA. But I LOVED that JH. Since the shitheads got my genetics a few years ago, I'm looking at Sannies Jack to replace it.
When I came up with the idea of the avatar, (It WAS Budz Bunny) I figured that everyone would get the HARE reference. I've been called some less than savory names over it! I figured it would somehow pay tribute to a great man. Some get it, some don't. You did! WAY too many people claim to admire the guy but can't even spell his name. Go figger! I think I'm staying with Jack Harer, I don't want problems with Disney!! At least Jacks wife Jeanniehasn't threatened to sue!!



Dude, on top of all I had going on, I drive 125mi to a friend who has a worm farm. I get his private stock for $12/40lb bag. I also have 4 rabbit breeders within a hundred mi radius where I collect bunny poo, 2 grocery stores where I get outdated veggies, 2 waffle houses that save me coffee grounds and egg shells. My buddies dad started the worm farm in the 60's from a popular science ad that said raising worms for bait was big business. They quickly found out where the REAL money was.
Click to expand...

Damn! I thought I did a lot of driving!

$12 for a 40lb bag of good castings is one hell of a deal
 
Yeah, he's a hell of a friend too.
I'm really afraid to break it down and find out just how much I actually have invested in a grow. It's gonna be way cheaper than say AN or GH nutes, but still when you factor in gas & my time.....hell, my Bass costs me right at $100 a pound!!
 
Hi Jack, I thank you for helping me in the past and perhaps partially because of you I am where I am at now. (my nickname used to be Endur0xX)

My grow is getting cheaper and cheaper.... What I have been experimenting with lately is to re-use my soil in an almost ROLS fashion. Not sure that it would work for your 2 gals container but i am in 7. I used to grow in SS but lately i have been re-using and what I do at harvest is I chop the plant close to the top of the soil, I flip the container upside down, remove most of the root ball (I grow small plants in 7gals so not much root balls) Put some fresh SS or Compost (experimenting with both right now) at the bottom and put the soil back in the container without disturbing it.

Then with a trowel I remove the bulk of the root ball with the stalk and it creates a hole big enough for my transplant. I hope my explanation is clear enough but yeah it`s not too much work and it seems to work well... sometimes ill remove the bulk of the root ball, put the soil back in, transplant and top dress... so that the new food is on top vs the bottom... again i am experimenting with that.

food for thoughts anyway... rabbit poo is on the list for me, I found some off of craigslist but the person never replied.
 
Hey EndurOxX, Yeah I remember you from before my first surgery! Glad to see you're still around. Your explanation was clear. Sounds like you've come a ways!!
 
Have you considered adding multiple plants (identical clones) in 1 large container? I think that would suit your needs as far as lolli popping and maintaining the rols (no till) method?You could have multiple square or rectangular containers to keep things symmetrical.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

D
Indoor living soil/no till grow recs?
Replies
2
Views
934
mandocat
M
Blue brother
BEGINNERS GROW GUIDE
Replies
2
Views
949
Blue brother
Blue brother
PNW 38
Journal of a small indoor organic grow
Replies
2
Views
578
PNW 38
PNW 38
H
My first grow! Bag seeds - Chronic Mint Tart
Replies
5
Views
1K
DMChiz
DMChiz
Geekloveart
50 gallon garden bed organic indoor grow
Replies
7
Views
994
wakenbake91
wakenbake91
Back
Top