The "I don't starve my plants before harvest" thread

[Harrekin]

Wait a second, I'm not saying anyone is wrong, I'm just asking why the lack of "chemical" taste? It could (and will be) smoother and taste stronger with a cure...but it's better than street weed smell/taste wise.

Im just asking why mine never tastes of "chemicals" cos I never flush.

 

[bigv1976]

Wait a second, I'm not saying anyone is wrong, I'm just asking why the lack of "chemical" taste? It could (and will be) smoother and taste stronger with a cure...but it's better than street weed smell/taste wise.

Im just asking why mine never tastes of "chemicals" cos I never flush.

If you never flush how would you know the difference? If you are raised from a baby eating cat shit then eventually you will like cat shit for supper. That doesnt make cat shit a delicacy.

 

[SirLancelot]

you know I had my buddy come over last night who knows more of this area than myself. He graduated with some sort of biology degree (not botony but he still has an understanding) anyways we discussed this thouroughly. ANd he didn't know FOR SURE either way and I explained all of the points from both sides. He agreed it's a good argument and it could go either way, but he sees my main point which is the concept of starving my plants before harvest. No alot argue it's not starving it's using up excess in the leaves, ok thats your view, this is mine. well through the discussion we realized something that no one is really taken into effect... The difference's in palets per person. Him and I could smoke the same bowl of nug but we both experience a different taste. Each Human has his/her own set of taste buds that are specialized for that person. some being more sensitive to tastes than other.Each marijuana plant has it's own genes and is gonna differ from the next (in general) thus causing bud plants to differ from one another throughout the grow and the taste of the final product. So we concluded that it may be possible chemicals are in the buds but doubt it just because of how the nutrients are broken down in the soil and how it's uptaken by the plant. NOt to mention how does a plant know to wash all of the nutrients out of the bud from when it gets a flush? all your doing is washing nutrients out of soil not plant. Anyways after this long discussion I still can't say for sure one is better than the other. The only thing I can say for sure is what I have personally experienced with my grows. BUt as I've stated before regardless if you pre-harvest flush or not if you grew your plants right and cured them right your gonna have bomb nug regardless that NO ONE will turn down if they find out it's not flushed. which is just assinin to say, like anyone can really tell a fucking difference from a well grown cured bud. But i guess everyone tastes different and some claim they can taste chemicals yet how come they don't taste chemicals in all the food they eat? and only the MJ they smoke?

another theory I believe, We all get too stoned and think we taste, see, smell things that aren't actually there. Were micromanaging a weed but these debates are neccessary as they are the stepping stones to a better understanding of how our plants grow.

Peace and Love brothers

 

[Harrekin]

If you never flush how would you know the difference? If you are raised from a baby eating cat shit then eventually you will like cat shit for supper. That doesnt make cat shit a delicacy.

Oh I have done before, I found it to be a waste of perfectly good water.

 

[KushDog]

Oh I have done before, I found it to be a waste of perfectly good water.

I water till the end, no sense depriving them of water

 

[Izoc666]

well peepz i dont know if this is relevant, from my exprience, i got good killer bud chronic from my friend, unflush if you puff once and you will cough real violent but got you stoned immediately ! and high can go on for like 3 or 4 hours and starting worn out later on....and i got kush from the meds who flushed, i puffed several times, yummy, not cough much, got nice high but it will go away in only 2 hours later after i smoked...so the term of high, potency, i rather go for more strong potency and high long hours of ease my pains etc....thats most matter to me...thats how i started to grow my own meds...tried flush and unflush both way...i found it s really easy for me to not overnutes and still retain the potency not as like meds sell nowsdays....IMHO its all about the practice grow, not do with flush anything.

666

 

[k0ijn]

I water till the end, no sense depriving them of water

....
Nobody deprives their plants of _water_, not even flushers..
Do you even know what flushing is?

Your posts are so ridiculous.

 

[SirLancelot]

I enjoy his insightful posts. lol

 

[abrownmn]

I'm pretty sure you are one of the only pro-flush people who don't believe that flushing can get mass out of the plant.
If you go and look in the many threads there have been about this subject, you will see what kind of stuff people believe.

No that is not what they're saying, it's what you're saying.
Most flushers say it improves taste, odour, look etc.
What you're saying is that you don't need to "waste" nutrients because the plant already has a surplus built up.

How does hash smoke 'cleaner' than bud?
I live in Denmark, where almost all of the smokers smoke hash, a very tiny number smoke homegrown or bud.
Almost everyone I've given bud to have complained of a rougher smoke than what they're used to.
They say it's harder to smoke and it's a lot tougher on the throat on the other hand they say they get more high from the bud, and in a much nicer way.

This is not because I don't flush or my weed isn't properly dried & cured, it's because of the difference between smoking hashish and bud.
My bud is dried for 6-7 days and cured for months on end, dedicated bud smokers tell me it's some of the best they have ever smoked, not just because it's so soft on the throat but also because of the taste and odour.

My underlying point here is that since the plant will move the chemicals up to the drain "sites" because it's not receiving any more nutrients from the roots, how is it in any way different than having the continual surplus in the leaves and harvesting the buds.
What you're saying is that because you flush, the plant doesn't absorb excess nutrients, therefore all nutrients (from the leaves) and used, and therefore you get a cleaner smoke.
How does that in any way make sense, when the only difference in unflushed bud is that there is a surplus of nutrients stored in the leaves (which are not smoked anyway)?
And you still need to get the chlorophyll out of the bud, so you still need to properly dry & cure your weed, even if flushed.
By doing that you get the exact same result with unflushed bud, since the chlorophyll is broken down and dissipates.


My final point:

How is it better, the inactive material you speak off in unflushed buds are stored in the leaves, therefore this material does not affect taste, high, smoke, odour etc.
Yes I agree, hash can be more potent if not cut with anything, but hash does not 'smoke cleaner' than bud.
I've smoked hashish for 10 years, I've only smoked bud for 3-4 years.

I partially agree...to an extent. But are you honestly saying that nutrients are ONLY stored and transferred in the leaves of the plant? Also, I use every leaf of every plant for baking etc etc..so are you saying if I don't want to eat a bunch of chemicals etc.. that I Should flush? Also, It sent me right to this post above so this is ALL that I read so I could be totally wrong, but I am just interested. And in this post you don't point out the Negative effects of flushing ( like I said you might have stated it earlier ) What are they? What is your argument against flushing? Why is it BAD? These are the questions I ask just based off this post. Thanks

 

[abrownmn]

well peepz i dont know if this is relevant, from my exprience, i got good killer bud chronic from my friend, unflush if you puff once and you will cough real violent but got you stoned immediately ! and high can go on for like 3 or 4 hours and starting worn out later on....and i got kush from the meds who flushed, i puffed several times, yummy, not cough much, got nice high but it will go away in only 2 hours later after i smoked...so the term of high, potency, i rather go for more strong potency and high long hours of ease my pains etc....thats most matter to me...thats how i started to grow my own meds...tried flush and unflush both way...i found it s really easy for me to not overnutes and still retain the potency not as like meds sell nowsdays....IMHO its all about the practice grow, not do with flush anything.



666

You really think not flushing retains potency? I do not agree. I doubt it has any relevance to potency at all in fact.

 

[abrownmn]

Yea as the name implies this thread is about bud that isn't starved before it's harvested a.k.a "flushed" Yes there has been many many arguments about flushing vs not flushing. and yet Everyone who is for flushing does it because someone they know, or someone who is their customer/client does it or asks for it. The people who belief that marijuana is like every other living fucking plant and doesn't need flush have all done expirements and have found out for themselves.

Ok so I don't flush my bud, and my nugs don't burn harsh nor do they get "black or sparky" for all of you that don't know, this is do to a shitty cure not because nutrients magically moved through the roots up the plant stock (if you have troubles believing this just look up how PLANTS take up nutrients, yes MJ is a plant like any other) and decided to just make a home in your buds. If you understood how plants work or had common sense you'd realize that starving something when it's in it's most crucial stages is iresponsible as a grower. Furthermore no one in the history of agriculture flushes their product, the tobacco industry doesn't flush. Why is marijuana so magically different? It's not, so quit trying to make it something more than it is.

Out of 3 blind taste tests NO ONE has ever been able to tell a difference in flushed and unflushed (with a proper cure). If you want to argue that you can taste a difference please explain how you came up with these results as I am always trying to figure out where this theory has actual facts too it. I am always open to intellectual positive conversation. Of course the majority of people who flush don't have intellectual answers to why they flush, they just do. STOP micromanaging a weed. If you grew the plant correctly to begin with your gonna have bomb as nug regardless. If you cure your bud properly you won't have the harsh smoke that is blamed on non-flushed weed. Like I've said I've done this expirement 3 times because someone has somewhat of a point so I test it out again thinking I missed something yet there never is anything different. Also something to remember a Plant is like Us (humans) we all differ from one another in some way. I just recently harvested two plants of the same strain that both tasted completely different after cure. So I can see how easily people can mispercieve their judgments on taste but You have to understand that nothing in this world benifits from starving and eating off of itself the last few weeks of it's life.

Please fire back with arguments Im open to hear legit answers.

I also figured this would be a good place to show off our "unflushed" babies and how horrible they look/taste since we didn't starve them. Guess you wouldn't smoke this huh?

I see everyone jumping on your bandwagon, but I really don't see why.. you also provide nearly NO evidence that 1. Says not flushing is more beneficial or 2. Flushing is harmful...You give 1 example based upon your own ethos..not very credible IMHO. Yeah, your buds look great and I'm sure they taste great too. Either way you've given ONE uncredible example and the rest is just bashing people who DO flush because, apparently they have no sense or fact at all. When in reality, you look foolish because your doing the exact same thing. Your plants don't get black and crackly? Great. Neither does any bud i've ever smoked, flushed or not. SO, what are you really saying? Or are you just against the "unethical" treatment of plants lol...

 

[SirLancelot]

I never claimed to be a scientist.
I never claimed to be an expert.
I never claimed to have any credible facts to my theorys
I have done lots of studying and if you took the time to read the thread you would see a shit ton of those facts that you want.
I did this merly to get a rise out of people and to share my opinion with others who believe the same as I. If you want scientific facts you've come to the wrong place this is a forum, try a .gov site or some other offical one.

lol yes that basically is it I don't like the idea of starving my plant the last weeks of her life my opinion through my experience. but if you want answers to my stance then read i don't want to re type.

I also intended this thread to be informational so if you have any information from doing an expirement yourself I would love to hear about it.
if you want to attack me personaly you can send me an email or start a new thread, thanks.

 

[k0ijn]

I partially agree...to an extent. But are you honestly saying that nutrients are ONLY stored and transferred in the leaves of the plant? Also, I use every leaf of every plant for baking etc etc..so are you saying if I don't want to eat a bunch of chemicals etc.. that I Should flush? Also, It sent me right to this post above so this is ALL that I read so I could be totally wrong, but I am just interested. And in this post you don't point out the Negative effects of flushing ( like I said you might have stated it earlier ) What are they? What is your argument against flushing? Why is it BAD? These are the questions I ask just based off this post. Thanks

You need to read all my posts in the discussion I had with Gastanker, in this thread, to understand the crux of my point(s).
I'm not saying that only leaves store nutrients, roots & stem(s) are full of minerals as well.
According to the chart I linked, the leaves and stem(s) is where the majority of minerals are stored.
I agree that all bodies of the plant contains nutrients and store nutrients to some degree.
With the leaves and stem being the by far majority "shareholders".

If you leach (flush) your plants you by definition also cause nutrient deficiency, which can set in within days or weeks depending on your plants, usually days. If we assume that by leaching we mean replacing the nutrient solution with RO water or tap water, not just a lower solute ratio.
Therefore moveable minerals are moved from the leaves, and it will lower the amount "nutrients" in the leaves.
But you would end up with leaves not worth using in cooking (I assume you want 'fresh' green leaves).

I have stated the negative effects of flushing before.

Positive:
Leaching (flushing) can be used to correct errors in the grow medium.
It can also be used to clear a salt buildup.
Other claims like: improved bud; taste, odour, harshness (less) etc. are not scientifically proven in my honest opinion.

Negative:
You cause a nutrient deficiency for your plants (if we assume that by leaching we mean replacing the nutrient solution with RO water or tap water, not just a lower solute ratio).
Because of this (if you look at the char I posted) productivity is lowered. If we assume most experienced growers are at around 85-100% productivity levels (how well the nutrient solution ratio fits the plants need), this means (if we take the char I posted) that you can in theory lose up to 90% of the plants productivity levels.
This can significantly lower final weight and in theory; taste, odour, THC levels and everything else which is affected by how well the plant grows and produces substances (from mineral breakdown procedures to trichome productivity).

I want to specify that I am talking about pre-harvest leaching (flushing).
I believe that leaching can be beneficial if you have grow medium problems and / or salt buildup etc. (in soil & hydro).

 

[wbd]

Lots of theory in this thread, so far the majority consensus appears to be NO DIFFERENCE between flushed and unflushed. Of course individual from both camps claim otherwise...

I doubt science will never "prove" (or disprove) subjective quality factors because they are simply a matter of taste, not to mention natural variance in plants plus all of the other things that affect the final product.

26 pages on how to use a hygrometer whilst curing would be sooo much more useful, but I guess we just love beating a dead horse round here.

 

[Harrekin]

Lots of theory in this thread, so far the majority consensus appears to be NO DIFFERENCE between flushed and unflushed. Of course individual from both camps claim otherwise...

I doubt science will never "prove" (or disprove) subjective quality factors because they are simply a matter of taste, not to mention natural variance in plants plus all of the other things that affect the final product.

26 pages on how to use a hygrometer whilst curing would be sooo much more useful, but I guess we just love beating a dead horse round here.

So again, you can't prove your point so it's "a matter of taste". Online forums, the place unproven myth and legend becomes reality!

 

[CEEJR]

Today I'm am going to run Florakleen for "1 or 2 days" as per the instruction and will post my opinion as I have never flushed but was always a dirt farmer and I'm just finishing up my first hydro attempt. As usual I will be looking for White ash after burn down.

 

[wbd]

So again, you can't prove your point so it's "a matter of taste". Online forums, the place unproven myth and legend becomes reality!

Great post. Not.

First, I don't flush, so you're missing my point entirely because it absolutely wasn't to advocate flushing.

Second, TASTE will always be a matter of TASTE. You're seriously going to dispute that?

Third, you want to talk proof? No matter how much botany you want to spew into this particular topic there is essentially zero proof of any of that either in terms of final product. Where are the studies that prove that yield and potency are affected by flushing? Where is any proof at all that plants are starved to the point of affecting final product as you insist? You have theories, that's all you have.

Do you really think you're winning this debate?

I guess you are so frustrated that you'll say anything, argue with anybody at this point? Maybe you should just let it go...

 

[SirLancelot]

Today I'm am going to run Florakleen for "1 or 2 days" as per the instruction and will post my opinion as I have never flushed but was always a dirt farmer and I'm just finishing up my first hydro attempt. As usual I will be looking for White ash after burn down.

make sure you cure properly.

idk it doesn't really make sense to dump chemicals into the medium to clear out chemicals... kinda counterproductive isn't it?

 

[WillyBagseed]

Flushing does little to nothing, drying, cure, storage and time are the factors that most determine taste and smell.

 

[rocknratm]

fuuuuuck.
never ending ect ect