The Matrix - humans as batteries?

guy incognito · Jul 29, 2011

Luger187 said:
i think what guy incognito is saying is that the sun gives energy to plants through photosynthesis, and also it heats up the earth. in turn, those plants get eaten and it goes down the food chain. eventually some of it will get into humans when we eat. then its converted to energy/heat for us to use. without the sun, this whole process stops. so where are humans getting their energy from? without the sun, there are no plants. without plants, there arent many animals. so what did the humans eat?

i dont remember the matrix much. but you should watch the sequels incognito. from what i remember they were cool

edit: maybe we found a way to live off the creatures in the bottom of the ocean. they live off thermal vents, so no photosynthesis is required. idk why they dont just get the energy from the thermal vents though lol

Yes. All energy on earth came from the sun (or previous suns). So what is the source to power this matrix? Humans are not a source, they are simply an engine that converts one form to another. I don't see how that solves any energy problems.

Grumpy' · Jul 29, 2011

The machines take genetics to reproduce more and more humans (batteries), which are then fed with dead batteries. All forms of energy are then recovered (from heat energy to the energy created by the process of thought, hence the reason for the matrix program itself). It is a movie after all, and the concepts are that machines have a greater knowledge than their creators. Just the fact that even todays computers can calculate hundreds of thousands of bytes of information in the smallest fraction of time as compared to the human mind, would put AI, that has been around for hundreds of years (as explained in the sequels) so far ahead of anything we could actually put into use today. The sustainable source is the same as the power source. its like a closed loop of energy. The energy put in, in less than the output due to the fact that the human battery lasts for years. Its what they did when they "took over" the planet, and has worked for them for years. Could they have fusion reactors instead? Sure, but that wouldnt make for a good story now would it. lol

guy incognito · Jul 29, 2011

Grumpy' said:
The machines take genetics to reproduce more and more humans (batteries), which are then fed with dead batteries. All forms of energy are then recovered (from heat energy to the energy created by the process of thought, hence the reason for the matrix program itself). It is a movie after all, and the concepts are that machines have a greater knowledge than their creators. Just the fact that even todays computers can calculate hundreds of thousands of bytes of information in the smallest fraction of time as compared to the human mind, would put AI, that has been around for hundreds of years (as explained in the sequels) so far ahead of anything we could actually put into use today. The sustainable source is the same as the power source. its like a closed loop of energy. The energy put in, in less than the output due to the fact that the human battery lasts for years. Its what they did when they "took over" the planet, and has worked for them for years. Could they have fusion reactors instead? Sure, but that wouldnt make for a good story now would it. lol

Essentially what you are saying is they grind up an old "battery" (which contains a finite amount of energy) and feed it to another "battery". This new battery then somehow takes that energy and generates more than the input. This is a clear violation of the laws of thermodynamics and is exactly the problem I have with the explanation. If you want to just create energy you might just as well explain it as magic and not try to base it in reality.

medicalmaryjane · Jul 29, 2011

i was watching last night too lol. how do they power their ship?

i like the movie and idon't think about the hows really, i just take it as fantasy as redivider said

Luger187 · Jul 29, 2011

guy incognito said:
Essentially what you are saying is they grind up an old "battery" (which contains a finite amount of energy) and feed it to another "battery". This new battery then somehow takes that energy and generates more than the input. This is a clear violation of the laws of thermodynamics and is exactly the problem I have with the explanation. If you want to just create energy you might just as well explain it as magic and not try to base it in reality.

maybe it is magic that we havent yet discovered :-P

olylifter420 · Jul 29, 2011

i dont think it would be suns, cause if they would have died, our planet would not exist... the source to power the matrix in the movie is coming from computer programs in it and of course the old dude' that is the ruler of the matrix

guy incognito said:
Yes. All energy on earth came from the sun (or previous suns). So what is the source to power this matrix? Humans are not a source, they are simply an engine that converts one form to another. I don't see how that solves any energy problems.

Grumpy' · Jul 29, 2011

I think you should just take it for what it is, a fictional movie made for entertainment. I am now removing the hook from my mouth.

olylifter420 · Jul 29, 2011

too much thinking if you ask me...

also, what i want to know is how were they able to move so fast?

was it cause of the old batteries they ate?

what about the smiths' agents? where did they get their batteries from?

Grumpy' said:
I think you should just take it for what it is, a fictional movie made for entertainment. I am now removing the hook from my mouth.

olylifter420 · Jul 29, 2011

alchemy was discovered hundreds of years ago!

Luger187 said:
maybe it is magic that we havent yet discovered

olylifter420 · Jul 29, 2011

i wasnt talking about thermodynamics, the higher power was discovered in the second or third movie and if i recall correctly, you said you havnt seen em.

guy incognito said:
What does atheism have to do with anything? I don't think god is mentioned anywhere in the laws of thermodynamics.

Justin00 · Jul 29, 2011

i agree with you totally that a human battery is a terrible idea and very ineffective but i was simply defending the fact that it is essentially feasible and makes a weird movie plot.

you ask how it would work and i gave you an explanation of how it could be managed and the principles on which it would be based.

and i want to state this as a fact in full view away from the rest of the post:

ALL ENERGY ON EARTH DOES NOT COME FROM THE SUN, THE SUN DOES SEND ENERGY TO EARTH BUT EVERY SINGLE THING ON EARTH HAS ENERGY IN IT THAT WAS NOT PUT THERE BY THE SUN AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SUN. IF YOU BLOCK OUT THE SUN THE SUN WILL STILL BE SHINING ON THE OTHER SIDE OF WHAT EVER YOU BLOCK IT OUT WITH. IF YOU BLOCK OUT THE SUN ALL THE ENERGY THE SUN HAS SENT TO EARTH IN THE PAST DOES NOT SIMPLY DISAPPEAR.

guy incognito · Jul 29, 2011

olylifter420 said:
i dont think it would be suns, cause if they would have died, our planet would not exist... the source to power the matrix in the movie is coming from computer programs in it and of course the old dude' that is the ruler of the matrix

Many suns died before our current sun. That is where all the heavy elements come from - supernova explosions.

I did not watch the entire movie, but my understanding of it was this:

Man creates machine, machine becomes too intelligent/powerful and tries to take over.
Man blocks out sun because machines use solar power (so does all of civilization and life as we know it, so this doesn't make any sense).
Machines take over humans and use them as an energy source while simulating reality inside the "matrix"
Everyone life is simulated inside this matrix, while your real physical body exists in the gel.

Computer programs don't generate energy. They necessarily use energy to decrease entropy.

olylifter420 · Jul 29, 2011

supernova explosions are big enough to destroy our entire solar system, so i dont think we could have had multiple suns...

you do have it right, although i think you are just thinking way too much about it...

guy incognito said:
Many suns died before our current sun. That is where all the heavy elements come from - supernova explosions.

I did not watch the entire movie, but my understanding of it was this:

Man creates machine, machine becomes too intelligent/powerful and tries to take over.
Man blocks out sun because machines use solar power (so does all of civilization and life as we know it, so this doesn't make any sense).
Machines take over humans and use them as an energy source while simulating reality inside the "matrix"
Everyone life is simulated inside this matrix, while your real physical body exists in the gel.

Computer programs don't generate energy. They necessarily use energy to decrease entropy.

medicalmaryjane · Jul 29, 2011

we couldnt survive without the sun, it would be freezing cold.

guy incognito · Jul 29, 2011

Justin00 said:
i agree with you totally that a human battery is a terrible idea and very ineffective but i was simply defending the fact that it is essentially feasible and makes a weird movie plot.

you ask how it would work and i gave you an explanation of how it could be managed and the principles on which it would be based.

and i want to state this as a fact in full view away from the rest of the post:

ALL ENERGY ON EARTH DOES NOT COME FROM THE SUN, THE SUN DOES SEND ENERGY TO EARTH BUT EVERY SINGLE THING ON EARTH HAS ENERGY IN IT THAT WAS NOT PUT THERE BY THE SUN AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SUN. IF YOU BLOCK OUT THE SUN THE SUN WILL STILL BE SHINING ON THE OTHER SIDE OF WHAT EVER YOU BLOCK IT OUT WITH. IF YOU BLOCK OUT THE SUN ALL THE ENERGY THE SUN HAS SENT TO EARTH IN THE PAST DOES NOT SIMPLY DISAPPEAR.

But it's not feasible. The premise is flawed.

No one claimed blocking out the sun stops it from creating energy, it just stops it from reaching earth where it can be harnessed. No one claimed all the energy that has already been sent to earth disappears either. But if you have energy, originating from the sun and transfered to earth in some form able to be consumed by humans, then what do you need the humans for? We already have the technology to break down chemical bonds into usable energy without the need of a human body, so how could a movie set in the future also not have the capability?

It just doesn't add up.

guy incognito · Jul 29, 2011

olylifter420 said:
supernova explosions are big enough to destroy our entire solar system, so i dont think we could have had multiple suns...

you do have it right, although i think you are just thinking way too much about it...

The supernova that created the elements in our solar system happened before our solar system was formed. It's what was used to create our solar system.

olylifter420 · Jul 29, 2011

our sun is way older then our planet and solar system.

guy incognito said:
The supernova that created the elements in our solar system happened before our solar system was formed. It's what was used to create our solar system.

olylifter420 · Jul 29, 2011

i would think that would be impossible cause if remember, the sun is as old as the universe i think, so any supernova explosion close to anything here would of destroyed our sun as well

guy incognito said:
The supernova that created the elements in our solar system happened before our solar system was formed. It's what was used to create our solar system.

Urca · Jul 29, 2011

olylifter420 said:
i would think that would be impossible cause if remember, the sun is as old as the universe i think, so any supernova explosion close to anything here would of destroyed our sun as well

Now since you throw a tiff when I cant be civil, I will be nice.

Our sun is new compared to the rest of the universe, as is our solar system. Our solar system is a speck in the huge galaxy we live in, which is older than our solar system, but then again, fairly new to the universe.

Supernova's are everywhere in the universe, billions and trillions of lightyears away, and there are even some in this galaxy. They all die, as our sun will die one day, because they can no longer carry out chemical reactions. They explode, which releases lots of elements into outer space... the remenants of these stars become the basis for new planets, compressed together by gravity.

That is how our solar system was formed, through supernova death.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/05/070508-supernova.html
btw, we have other super nova's in this galaxy. closest one in 7,400 light years away.
If it explodes, it wont take us out with it

Luger187 · Jul 29, 2011

olylifter420 said:
our sun is way older then our planet and solar system.

olylifter420 said:
i would think that would be impossible cause if remember, the sun is as old as the universe i think, so any supernova explosion close to anything here would of destroyed our sun as well

the sun is not as old as the universe. i think its about the same age as the solar system though. they estimate it at 4.6 billion years old, and the universe is 13.7 billion i believe.
stars are balls of gas that eventually get big enough to create massive pressure due to gravity. once this force reaches a certain point, fusion starts and u have a star. our sun now is in a stage of balance, between the inward force of gravity, and the outward push of fusion. eventually the balance gets thrown off due to lack of fuel, and a supernova (eventually) happens. all of the elements inside that star explode out into the universe. eventually this stuff mixes with other stuff, clumps together, and forms solar systems. our solar system is made from the remains of a previous supernova

The Matrix - humans as batteries?

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