The Never Ending Abuse of Phosphorous (Bloom foods) to Enhance Flowering

D

~Dankster~420

Well-Known Member
Good points. What I have found that works 4 me is right around the time I take my babies from veg to flower I will water with plain H2o + flora plus then ph'd for a few days, then I start back with my flowering nutrients at a lower ppm reading, then (depending on how each strain reacts) I start increasing the ppm readings to what I try to reach at what weeks of cycle the plants are in. Different cycles require being dosed with less/more of the NPK imo. Towards the end of flowering (last 3 to 5 day period) I finish up with my nutes and switch over to plain water + flora nectar for taste + molasses, although I usually use molasses throughout the entire growing cycle. But 4 real, good info. Makes since to add in a little more (N) just to keep um nice and green, and not run into a (N) and or any other issues during flowering, which as im sure we all know will mess with the entire outcome of the said plant/plants/
Uncle Ben said:
It's not only OK, it's what you should be doing to support green healthy leaves. If you search out my posts you'll see references to me using a slow release 18-4-9 until harvest and a reference to Homebrewers recent test using 6 clones testing a low P food, Foliage Pro 9-3-6 against DG's Grow food. The yield of the high N food was 10% higher than the high P food. It's at another forum with a short version here. Here are a few pix which I C/P - https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/267989-uncle-bens-gardening-tweeks-pointers-76.html

Curious, why do you guys put so much faith in markets who sell you what they think you want to hear and buy and not science? It's not bloom foods that produce, it's foliage. See my first post.

Cannabis is nothing more than a tropical foliage plant that blooms, which all foliage plants do.

UB
Click to expand...
 
D

~Dankster~420

Well-Known Member
Hey.. I have been reading a few of your posts & find your information to be very informative. Thanks 4 your work as a fellow grower. :mrgreen: I have now ventured into another little side hobby myself. SHROOMS. Have you, or do you know any information on growing them :??: Although I have had some really cool guy helping me on y thread, I find some information to be mixed, and or confusing at times. Such as my medium to use in my fruiting chamber. Some say perlite, some say don't f'n use it. lol So im lost on that part. It was 1 week today I inoculated them. I have started to see growth in jar#1 &#1 of the GT. BUT. Growth in the jar#1 has a small patch of "light green" stuff going on. Can't seem to get confirmation as to if its contaminated :??: Would you mind taking a look please .. Thanks bud. https://www.rollitup.org/hallucinatory-substances/800333-dark-side-moon-17.html#post10275675
Uncle Ben said:
I wrote this years ago and thought I'd share it here.

The never ending abuse of Phosphorous to enhance flowering

A common mistake for growers when they reach the flowering stage is to start hitting the plants with a high P fert like a 10-50-10, continuing to use this blend exclusively, and when their plants start experiencing a deficit of N, Ca, Mg or micros as reflected by the dropping of lower leaves and chlorosis, they wonder why. Plants flower as a response to long nights, not because of fert blends high in P. A ratio of 10-60-10 is WAY too high in P. The plant will only take what it needs and compete for other elements that may be more important at the time.

You may have heard that too much N can inhibit flowering. No question about it, exclusive use of a plant food that is rich in N such as blood meal, a 5-1-1 blend, or ammonium nitrate/sulfate may inhibit flowering especially if the phosphorous level is low, but most balanced blends have sufficient amount of P to do the job. The question is - "how much P is enough to support a good flowering response and still retain my leaves?"

Manufacturers/horticulturists will give you element analysis and what effect the elements have on plant growth, but remember this does not necessarily mean you will get better yields. Using a high P fert exclusively during flowering can actually work against you due to impending leaf drop. It's an abundant amount of healthy leaves going into 12/12 and maintaining their health that produces a lot of bud, not high P ferts.

I rotate fert blends as the plant *requires* them, not because it is "the thing to do." For example, when your plants are going thru the stretch phase during early flowering, they may need more N, especially if you're getting some yellowing in the lower leaves. Give up the cannabis paradigms and give them what they need. Go back to mild high P fert when the stretch ends, maintaining the foliage in a healthy state of growth until harvest for maximum yields. A 1-3-2 blend such as Peter's Pro Blossom Booster, 10-30-20, is one of the best flowering blends on the market because of several factors - it is higher in nitrate N and Mg. It is sold under the Jack's Classic label. An added benefit of Peters blends is their use of high quality, very pure salts that will eliminate root burn if used judiciously.

Uncle Ben
Click to expand...
 
G

Green Munchie

New Member
Hi Uncle Ben

Im growing some indoor and currently using bio bloom and fish emulsion in coco peat.can i continue with these through the flowering phase?
 
Greensea

Greensea

Well-Known Member
I wish i have seen this post before i ruined like u described at start with too soon switching to flowering nutes... :/
Im in 4th week flowering of my 1st attemp on cloning... I have 14 clones 6 of them vegged 3 weeks 8 vegged only 1 week...
I experimented a bit on them like LST, supercroping and just free grow....
All plants which I left free growth, are super healthy, the Lst plants are doing fine...

The problem emerged in those which I have done supercroping,I think this is because they need more time to steching ...
im wrong?

Ok i got a BIGG lesson i think... :D And all my previous problems originate from that issue... To much and to soon P...
I can not wait to use these ticks on the next grow!!!

Here is my current "problem" if u wanna follow and help how to recover those 3 afflicted plants:

https://www.rollitup.org/t/day-30-flowering-some-plants-yellowing.830830/
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
UB is SOOO Correct about this problem.....I have gotten tired of answering the ever present question of, "My leaves are turning yellow, what do I do/What is my problem?") The sad part is that 98% of the following answers are "low N/add more N".....

The use of high P bloom feeds is promoted by nutrient makers with no shame! They only want your money by making wild claims!

Avoid the yellow out. Do not do ANY increase in P till at the very least week 4 of bloom and then only a VERY minor bump will work in your favor. I might spike it ONCE, at 6 weeks in certain strains and almost NEVER in any Sativa.....Try it and see for yourself.

Go UB!
 
greasemonkeymann

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
Uncle Ben said:
It's the blind leading the blind, folks pushing rocket fuel names rather than sound plant culture. FWIW, I use the term "forum paradigms" quite frequently in cannabis forums. :D

Rational thought will set you free,
UB
Click to expand...
can't believe i'm the frst person to like this particular post. Absolute GOLDEN wisdom.
 
Sativied

Sativied

Well-Known Member
---------------------
"The production of cannabinoids (THC, CBN, CBD, etc.) is greatly influenced by nutrients. As soil N increases relative to Mg, CBD increases relative to CBN. Increasing
the ratio of N to Cu increases the level of CBD. Increasing amounts of P convert CBN to THC. Low to medium levels of P produces a high level of CBD, but CBD decreases with high levels of P. Low levels (levels less than 40 ppm) of Mg produce more CBD than do high levels of Mg. As levels of Mg increase relative to Ca, the concentration of THC decreases. The concentration of Mg and Fe in leaves is positively correlated to THC levels. Potassium increases the concentration of CBN by effecting the dehydrogenation of THC. An excess of K in the 3rd month will inhibit resin production. Excess Ca will inhibit resin production, and it increases the production of CBD in the resin is produced. Either an excess or deficiency of Mg produces more CBD. 5 ppm Fe gives highest yields of THC."

"Cannabis is nitrophilic, but if the plant is grown for its resin, the supply [of N] should be kept under 400 ppm, and it must be reduced to about 100 ppm during flowering. The application of N should be reduced 20% in very hot weather."

"Cannabis uses 250% more phosphorus at flowering than during the vegetative phase."

Src: rexresearch - in the context of comparing to growing hemp for fiber.Don't know how reliable, interesting claims though.
--------------------

Besides a difference between strains and phenos, I noticed it differs a lot per grow medium. N leaches more easily from soil than P, requiring the grower to add more N. In recirculating hydroponics, you don't need as much N as it quickly leads to 'too much'. When I use the same nutrient solution from my recirculating setup for my cocos or hempy plants, I need to increase the ppm and in particular N ('grow nutes' or A component of AB nutes) to keep them green. It's not about the ratio you put in your water or soil but the ratio of the nutrients that are actually available. In soil there's a lot of variation, even within a single pot.

Some day I'll get a hanna photometer, till then I will just let the plants tell me what they want. Which so far is "decrease the N a little" during flowering" (a subtle yet huge different from increasing P and/or K).

Completely agree with the thread title though. I like to refer to PK13/14 as Plant Killer 13/14.
 
Growerguy420

Growerguy420

Active Member
Uncle Ben has it correct, you must maintain healthy leaves to flower so why all these canna specific nutrients have little to no nitrogen makes no sense. UB I have been following you for about 7 years now on various threads and I must say that you have always had it correct. Here's the proof. $9.99 for a tub of nutes. Well done unc.

image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg

And flushing is for toilets
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Nice job! I admire a grower who can and will keep plants' leaves healthy and green until the end.

Happy you listened...... ;)
 
Last edited:
Growerguy420

Growerguy420

Active Member
Uncle Ben said:
Nice job! I admire a grower who can and will keep plants' leaves healthy and green until the end.

Happy you listened...... ;)
Click to expand...
Thanks UB. It really is one of the easiest plants to grow and it's amazing how overly complicated some people make growing it (it's also quite amusing to read all the hilarious things people do and believe on these sites, some of which just go completely against the grain of general botany common sense and yet all these people seem to think this plant is different than any other plant). if you ever make it to my neck of the woods I owe you a couple of cold ones for your wisdom and saving me hundreds of dollars in canna specific BS that don't work. I'm still using just my second tub of citrus feed after all these years, $9.99 1.5 lb tub goes a heck of a long way! To bad jacks isn't a sponsor here or they might put everyone else out of business if their secret got out...
 
Growerguy420

Growerguy420

Active Member
Uncle Ben said:
Words of wisdom.

I'll take you up on the cold one!

Just pulled the trigger on this. When you consider it's almost as cheap as a 1.5 lb. tub after shipping costs and all, it's a steal at $2.12/lb ! About the same profile as the citrus feed except lower in P. Should be perfect for cannabis.

http://www.amazon.com/77770-Petunia-Magnesium-Fertilizer-25-Pound/dp/B002HJGULU/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1414075749&sr=8-2&keywords=Jr Peters Petunia Feed
Click to expand...
You got a deal there my friend, While I surely would love to try that, I think 25 lbs would last me multiple lifetimes! Maybe fill a small tub perhaps an old citrus tub and send me a sample since you now have 25lbs Lol. I'm sure it will just further prove how little P you need to grow this stuff.
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Growerguy420 said:
You got a deal there my friend, While I surely would love to try that, I think 25 lbs would last me multiple lifetimes! Maybe fill a small tub perhaps an old citrus tub and send me a sample since you now have 25lbs Lol. I'm sure it will just further prove how little P you need to grow this stuff.
Click to expand...
I hope to spit the bag with a friend or two.

I have posted photos of 7' tall O. Haze that was grown with Polyon 18-4-9 with micros from start to finish. 12 month slow release. Scratch some into the surface, water and forget it. I use this Polyon on everything around the farm.

Harrell's18-4-9.jpg
 
Growerguy420

Growerguy420

Active Member
Uncle Ben said:
I hope to spit the bag with a friend or two.

I have posted photos of 7' tall O. Haze that was grown with Polyon 18-4-9 with micros from start to finish. 12 month slow release. Scratch some into the surface, water and forget it. I use this Polyon on everything around the farm.

View attachment 3279258
Click to expand...
Thats a smart idea. For now I will stick with the citrus as it has yet to let me down and maybe when I see your results it will entice to go for the 25lb bag
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top