The Yorkshireman
Well-Known Member
That's blasphemes coming from a Scotsman!
The UK Growers Thread!
- Thread starter lozac123
- Start date
The Yorkshireman
Well-Known Member
3 times what mate?
Closetgardner
Well-Known Member
Deejay!! What are you doing in here ya Fucking yank??? Lol
dura72
Well-Known Member
The concept oflegitimacy is a rather and vague and nebulous one, unlike legality itis not written in constitutions or other legal tomes, neither is itas easily measured as popularity or as obvious as power, using pollsor viewing government actions. Rather it is a widely held consensusby those who are governed that the government has the right, andtherefore privileges of rule, to continue to govern. This governingwill usually exist within a legal framework but not always. PeterCalvert ,(2002:5) Comparative Politics, says on the subject'Legitimacy means that a government is generally recognized to havethe right to do what it does. It depends, therefore, not on what thegovernment claims, but on whether that claim is recognized. The factthat a government is recognized as legitimate, whether by its owncitizens or by its peer states, gives it authority, which is theassurance that its commands will be obeyed.”.
In this essay I willshow various types of legitimacy and explain the differences betweenthe types, I will also show the problems that government can facewith regards to losing legitimacy and describe various reasons forthis happening.
It is generallyrecognized , based on Max Webers writings, that there are 3 forms oflegitimacy; traditional whereby a government or ruler has inheritedpowers such as the first off-spring of a monarch becoming king orqueen, charismatic or affectual where a government has taken power,often violently, and is accepted by the people as right andacceptable such as Napoleon or Hitler and lastly the legal rationalapproach whereby a government has gained and holds power throughmethods such as popular votes.
The first form Iwill approach is that of traditional legitimacy. The conceptencompasses royal succession as its most common although as timepasses all continuous forms of government can be seen as havinggained a tradition. It is referred to as being 'conferred by history,habit and custom' Government and Politics in Britain (John Kingdom,2[SUP]nd[/SUP] Edition: 4) and at its core needs the passage of timeto create it. Weber describes it 'the authority of the eternalyesterday' and is the 'mores sanctified through the unimaginablyancient recognition and habitual orientation to conform' PoliticalLegitimacy and the State (Barker, 1990:4
.
Traditional rulersfrequently have no need for legal justification or as their authorityor power rests on historical president and in many cases is wrappedup in religion; the ancient divine right of kings, it is an off shootof the patriarchal belief that natural order is absolute and correct.This style of government can be seen in many societies for examplemiddle eastern states.
Crises can occurwithin the traditional sphere when new political ideas such ascommunism are introduced or when a different religious view may bemay be coming to a society. It may also be a result of mismanagementon the part of the ruler arousing the anger and revolt of the ruledwhether partly so in the case of the Magna Carta of 1215 devolvingsome power to the nobility or in full revolution such as theCommunists in Russia.
Webers 2[SUP]nd[/SUP]form of legitimacy is that of the charismatic or affectual. This ideais based on the view that a ruler is whole-heartedly desired by thepopulous and has their support to rule. Historical examples would beNapoleon and Jesus with more modern example being leaders such asHitler or Ghandi. This form is centrally based on the perceivedpersonality of the leader and their virtues : ' inspirational,heroic and unique' Comparative Government and Politics (Hague andHarrop, 8[SUP]th[/SUP] edtn:12). With this form the leader is thetotem of the people and is followed almost without question throughsheer force of personality. In this the leader is seen as forwardthinking and rejecting of historical president, although in somecases such as Hitler a belief that a previously existing state,whether in actuality having existed or not, will be regained and thepeople will achieve their rightful place. Either way the people aredriven and led at the same time. In many cases the reality of thepersonality of the person who leads is not especially charismatic buttheir rhetoric or public and contrived behaviour is the true drivingforce (Oakes, 1997). A spin doctor is used in modern politics oftento attempt to confer charisma to a politician; kissing babies ordressing in military uniform are common practices.
The main problemfaced by charismatic leadership is that it deteriorates on the deathof the leader although attempts may made to appoint a successor suchas in the case of North Korea that appears to be trying to create apatriarchal/traditional legitimacy. This approach in many casesfails.
A further reason forthe failure of this form can also be attributed to the 'routinizationof charisma'. In this concept the ' individual authority of aninspirational leader is transferred to a permanent office orinstitution' Comparative Government and Politics (Hague andHarrop,8[SUP]th[/SUP] edtn: 13). Again the success of this endevourvaries. If it succeeds then the following government will usuallyfall into the traditional or legal-rational spheres.
The legal-rationalform is that style of government most usually seen within westernliberal democracies and has at its core legality and regulations.This form is based on pre-existing offices similar to traditional butexisting within a framework of law whereby the ruler or government isalso subject to the rules; unlike traditional or charismatic rulewhere the rulers are the 'law' and can change without need forrecourse to a parliament for example. Legal-rational legitimacy canexist within the other two areas but below and conferred by theleadership. It is the legal and binding right to exercise power aswritten down in statutes, if applied to a nations rule it is a 'statebased in law' Comparative Government and Politics (Hague andHarrop,8[SUP]th[/SUP] edtn, 13).
The legal-rationalform is becoming more predominant in modern politics with manyliberal democracy leaders realising that there electorates arehappier when their nation-state is dealing with otherliberal-democracies and many would prefer other countries to conform;the embracing of democracy would seem to be the preferred style ofgovernment.
Although this formis heavily dependant on legality it is not the only definingcharacteristic. Some nations although operating totally legally havenot been granted legitimacy or it has been removed at some point.This can happen if a government begins using policies that creatediscord to the point where the majority have lost faith in their'right to rule', it can manifest its-self in many ways from streetprotest and petitions to out-right civil war and serious civildisobedience. Governments have historically tried many ways to regainlegitimacy from aquiescence to brutal suppression although in thelatter it tends to inflame the populous and is usually frowned uponby other liberal-democracies although the former may be interpretedas weakness and be also be counter productive.
The crisis inherentin this 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] form are when the governed begin to reject thepolicies of the governing and confidence can be eroded to the pointwhere the rule is rejected, ignored or overthrown. In a westernliberal-democracy this can result in a vote of no-confidence in agovernment and can trigger early elections.
Webers 3 classicalviews are the most commonly used measurement of legitimacy althoughhe himself also suggested a 4[SUP]th[/SUP] category that of the'authority of the substantive policies or values'. In this it is thelegitimacy granted to a set of values or beliefs that are normativelyagreed to be correct or right by the majority. It is not the grantingof power to an individual or government but a belief that certainmodes of behaviour are correct and therefore do not require a legalfoundation as there correctness is obvious, its roots may be in atraditional belief or accepted morality. 'When people believe thatthe regime they support, their regime, is building communism, orfighting it, or preserving the national way of life, or achieving anIslamic state' Political Legitimacy and the State (Barker, 1990: 49).This legitimacy is not conferred directly to the state but instead 'by whatever body has the command of the legitimizing values'. Thepossible crises for this form is more likely to less obvious or ascataclysmic as it would require the removal of deeply held beliefsand values and this is usually conducted at a slow and gradual pace.
In conclusionlegitimacy is not legality although the two do go hand in hand and inthe normal course of events most legal governments will attempt tolegitimize their rule using various means that garners the support ofthe majority governed. Legitimation is the agreement that those whorule have the right to do so and their policies will be followed andobeyed. 'In any event, public opinion, not a law court, is the arenain which the battle for legitimacy' Comparative Government and theState (Hague and Harrop, 8[SUP]th[/SUP] edtn; 14).
In this essay I willshow various types of legitimacy and explain the differences betweenthe types, I will also show the problems that government can facewith regards to losing legitimacy and describe various reasons forthis happening.
It is generallyrecognized , based on Max Webers writings, that there are 3 forms oflegitimacy; traditional whereby a government or ruler has inheritedpowers such as the first off-spring of a monarch becoming king orqueen, charismatic or affectual where a government has taken power,often violently, and is accepted by the people as right andacceptable such as Napoleon or Hitler and lastly the legal rationalapproach whereby a government has gained and holds power throughmethods such as popular votes.
The first form Iwill approach is that of traditional legitimacy. The conceptencompasses royal succession as its most common although as timepasses all continuous forms of government can be seen as havinggained a tradition. It is referred to as being 'conferred by history,habit and custom' Government and Politics in Britain (John Kingdom,2[SUP]nd[/SUP] Edition: 4) and at its core needs the passage of timeto create it. Weber describes it 'the authority of the eternalyesterday' and is the 'mores sanctified through the unimaginablyancient recognition and habitual orientation to conform' PoliticalLegitimacy and the State (Barker, 1990:4
. Traditional rulersfrequently have no need for legal justification or as their authorityor power rests on historical president and in many cases is wrappedup in religion; the ancient divine right of kings, it is an off shootof the patriarchal belief that natural order is absolute and correct.This style of government can be seen in many societies for examplemiddle eastern states.
Crises can occurwithin the traditional sphere when new political ideas such ascommunism are introduced or when a different religious view may bemay be coming to a society. It may also be a result of mismanagementon the part of the ruler arousing the anger and revolt of the ruledwhether partly so in the case of the Magna Carta of 1215 devolvingsome power to the nobility or in full revolution such as theCommunists in Russia.
Webers 2[SUP]nd[/SUP]form of legitimacy is that of the charismatic or affectual. This ideais based on the view that a ruler is whole-heartedly desired by thepopulous and has their support to rule. Historical examples would beNapoleon and Jesus with more modern example being leaders such asHitler or Ghandi. This form is centrally based on the perceivedpersonality of the leader and their virtues : ' inspirational,heroic and unique' Comparative Government and Politics (Hague andHarrop, 8[SUP]th[/SUP] edtn:12). With this form the leader is thetotem of the people and is followed almost without question throughsheer force of personality. In this the leader is seen as forwardthinking and rejecting of historical president, although in somecases such as Hitler a belief that a previously existing state,whether in actuality having existed or not, will be regained and thepeople will achieve their rightful place. Either way the people aredriven and led at the same time. In many cases the reality of thepersonality of the person who leads is not especially charismatic buttheir rhetoric or public and contrived behaviour is the true drivingforce (Oakes, 1997). A spin doctor is used in modern politics oftento attempt to confer charisma to a politician; kissing babies ordressing in military uniform are common practices.
The main problemfaced by charismatic leadership is that it deteriorates on the deathof the leader although attempts may made to appoint a successor suchas in the case of North Korea that appears to be trying to create apatriarchal/traditional legitimacy. This approach in many casesfails.
A further reason forthe failure of this form can also be attributed to the 'routinizationof charisma'. In this concept the ' individual authority of aninspirational leader is transferred to a permanent office orinstitution' Comparative Government and Politics (Hague andHarrop,8[SUP]th[/SUP] edtn: 13). Again the success of this endevourvaries. If it succeeds then the following government will usuallyfall into the traditional or legal-rational spheres.
The legal-rationalform is that style of government most usually seen within westernliberal democracies and has at its core legality and regulations.This form is based on pre-existing offices similar to traditional butexisting within a framework of law whereby the ruler or government isalso subject to the rules; unlike traditional or charismatic rulewhere the rulers are the 'law' and can change without need forrecourse to a parliament for example. Legal-rational legitimacy canexist within the other two areas but below and conferred by theleadership. It is the legal and binding right to exercise power aswritten down in statutes, if applied to a nations rule it is a 'statebased in law' Comparative Government and Politics (Hague andHarrop,8[SUP]th[/SUP] edtn, 13).
The legal-rationalform is becoming more predominant in modern politics with manyliberal democracy leaders realising that there electorates arehappier when their nation-state is dealing with otherliberal-democracies and many would prefer other countries to conform;the embracing of democracy would seem to be the preferred style ofgovernment.
Although this formis heavily dependant on legality it is not the only definingcharacteristic. Some nations although operating totally legally havenot been granted legitimacy or it has been removed at some point.This can happen if a government begins using policies that creatediscord to the point where the majority have lost faith in their'right to rule', it can manifest its-self in many ways from streetprotest and petitions to out-right civil war and serious civildisobedience. Governments have historically tried many ways to regainlegitimacy from aquiescence to brutal suppression although in thelatter it tends to inflame the populous and is usually frowned uponby other liberal-democracies although the former may be interpretedas weakness and be also be counter productive.
The crisis inherentin this 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] form are when the governed begin to reject thepolicies of the governing and confidence can be eroded to the pointwhere the rule is rejected, ignored or overthrown. In a westernliberal-democracy this can result in a vote of no-confidence in agovernment and can trigger early elections.
Webers 3 classicalviews are the most commonly used measurement of legitimacy althoughhe himself also suggested a 4[SUP]th[/SUP] category that of the'authority of the substantive policies or values'. In this it is thelegitimacy granted to a set of values or beliefs that are normativelyagreed to be correct or right by the majority. It is not the grantingof power to an individual or government but a belief that certainmodes of behaviour are correct and therefore do not require a legalfoundation as there correctness is obvious, its roots may be in atraditional belief or accepted morality. 'When people believe thatthe regime they support, their regime, is building communism, orfighting it, or preserving the national way of life, or achieving anIslamic state' Political Legitimacy and the State (Barker, 1990: 49).This legitimacy is not conferred directly to the state but instead 'by whatever body has the command of the legitimizing values'. Thepossible crises for this form is more likely to less obvious or ascataclysmic as it would require the removal of deeply held beliefsand values and this is usually conducted at a slow and gradual pace.
In conclusionlegitimacy is not legality although the two do go hand in hand and inthe normal course of events most legal governments will attempt tolegitimize their rule using various means that garners the support ofthe majority governed. Legitimation is the agreement that those whorule have the right to do so and their policies will be followed andobeyed. 'In any event, public opinion, not a law court, is the arenain which the battle for legitimacy' Comparative Government and theState (Hague and Harrop, 8[SUP]th[/SUP] edtn; 14).
deejay123
Well-Known Member
Yo man! Got mad love for the UK! Hahaha
Closetgardner
Well-Known Member
Well ok, I'll let you off!! Lol
deejay123
Well-Known Member
Flushing 3 times in coco will be enough of a flush
Closetgardner
Well-Known Member
Flushing 3 times in coco should do u fine mate
deejay123
Well-Known Member
Thanks man, cant contain the fucking excitement! Three more flushes!!!
Closetgardner
Well-Known Member
Have you noticed any difference in your girls since the last update? Are you going to flush over the space of a week?
deejay123
Well-Known Member
I have bro! They seem to be packing a bit more weight on over the past week since the last pic i showed you. Its the start of the 8th wk on weds so i'll send you a few more pics if ya want pal? Hairs are receeding a lot more now, gonna start the flush from tomorrow and they seem to like a watering every 3 days. There in 11L square pots and there averaging 2.5 L every watering!
madpotthead89
Member
anybody willing to give some advice for me. its my first time growing ?
Closetgardner
Well-Known Member
Cool mate, Yh send the pics on weds then pal. Wouldn't mind a nosey b4 the flush starts. You've done yourself proud fir your first time mate.
Closetgardner
Well-Known Member
Yh mate spot on! It'll help speed up the drying a bit letting them dry out.And yes bro, flushing all next week then gonna leave them for 3 days after last flush so they dry out a bit and leave them in darkness for 48 hrs
Closetgardner
Well-Known Member
What you needing help with man?
deejay123
Well-Known Member
Thanks pal! Im actually looking forward to seeing how much il get per lady. Well by wednesday they will be already on flush period. Starting it tomorrow. Most trichs are cloudy now so im sure il be good to go from tomorrow?
Closetgardner
Well-Known Member
Yh tmoro will be sound mate. Just keep your eye on the trichs, they can change fast.