These mothers went from perfect green to sick and need help

Hello,

I'm on a mission to help a friend with his grow issue

Some stats:
- Goal: mother plants for cloning
- Lifetime plants 4 months as of now
- Medium: Coco
- nutrition: Cocos A B, root and growth stimulator
- PH: between 5.5 - 6.5 (depending on plant status)
- EC: started 0.9 for young vegetative state and was build up to 1.2 during the first two months
- Watering method: from above with a telescopic spray lance
- Watering: every three days, each watering of pots with a 20% runoff. Due to practical limitation runoff was left alone to be absorbed back by the plants.

I was called by a friend in need of help. He invited me to take a look at his sick plants to get some advise. Exactly 4 weeks ago starting 1 september he was unable to care for the plants for two weeks due to private problems . The plants were left alone for two weeks during which nothing was done. No single intervention or watering. They were dry, yellow.

When he came back to the plants (which is two weeks ago starting 15 september) he started his intervention. He continued watering using the regular (above mentioned) regimen, but added a microelement booster used to detoxify plants and combat microelement deficiencies. Watering method was the same, but plants take longer to absorbe all the water (4 days in between). Every watering the root stimulator and micro elementsbooster are added.

In the good times before 1 september the regimen for the mother was good, plants looked lively back then with huge green leaves. Now it seems a nutrient lockout and salt build-up causes the yellowing and a sickness. I see no extreme issues in temperature or humidity, but could be better overall. Maybe a little lack in maintaining the right humidity. His grow room temp (not controlled, only activated during sleeptime when lamps are off) and humidity (semi-controlled meaning he fills the tank manually) are maintained manually. The stems are purple for sure indicating stress due to low temperature from a previous mistake (under better control now).

To give him straight forward advise I suggested I ask some expert with a few photo's at hand.
Really this guy deserves some good luck. in life. He had a rough phew years and as a friend I want him to finally succeed in cloning.
If needed I can answer further questions y'all might have to narrow down the issue. Please don't be afraid of using jargon on me. What is your advise, what to do with the plants and what steps to take. Please expert advise only which means determine cause, sickness and if possible steps to improve (if that possibility is still there given the status of the plants).

Sir Cannabis said:

The plants were left alone for two weeks during which nothing was done. No single intervention or watering. They were dry, yellow.

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The best nutrition is the footstep of the grower. That was missing.

Sir Cannabis said:

he started his intervention. He continued watering using the regular (above mentioned) regimen, but added a microelement booster used to detoxify plants and combat microelement deficiencies. Watering method was the same, but plants take longer to absorbe all the water (4 days in between).

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Detox what? lack of water and dead roots? Why not again:

Sir Cannabis said:

root (...)stimulator

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Because the damage you see above is only the tip of the iceberg.... the roots died, thats why thy drink to less and thats why leaves die.... without the roots, she cant access the water for the leaves.

Sir Cannabis said:

Now it seems a nutrient lockout and salt build-up causes the yellowing and a sickness.

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Why you think this now???? The cause clearly was:

two weeks during which nothing was done. No single intervention or watering. They were dry, yellow.

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Dont shoot farer now on this or that....they simply need to recover the root zone, until enough rootsgrowwn, the leaves continue to die and the growth going to be inhibited. Once the roots are grown enough, it starts growing faster again, growing green leaves.

Sir Cannabis said:

To give him straight forward advise

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Care your plants... never ignore them two weeks, it doesnt grow on its own in pots.... indoor is not nature, you are god, if god is missing to control, gods life dies. You be glad it's not completely dead.... this mother high likely no more produces best cuttings, they might run hermaphrodite, early or late floreing, mutations, slow propagation, or maybe only lower THC, theres a risk.... if you ask me: Time to start a new one and dont forget it next time.

A good mother that had no problems before is the optimum start for a good grow from cuttings.... any stress like forgot the lights on 1 day or anything else stressing like 2 weeks not watering, is not good for the quality of your grow. It suffers. You can safe her, but should you continue with her... your decision.... may keep herefirst for him to learn to take care of one, like if its a pet.... imagine you forgatyour dog next room 2 weeks....plant is a living beeing too.... this is the first lessen. Growth doesn't happen by random, putting a seed in and wait monthes and bang there is the ganja... lol... its a lot every day, or at least every some day a week, work!

You cant say... this week, i m lazy.... within the flowering you cant say that a day... when it's dry and needs x-liters a day... you must give.... its not just making pause... that kills it Having water is not an OPTION...... it's the most crucial ingredient for the hole process to function at all. Water...

If not watering is ok... you would see plants on mars lol... but there non!

You cant function a day in the desert and the sun burning down without water, too. You die, from dehydration! This happend to the plant here! Its pretty much done, but not yet completely... it CAN recover, sure. Its weed, not an orchid.... But what you want with it now? Houseplant.... ? She nearly died, fought for survival.... not the best for your cuttings because she is weakend and all kinds of survival-programms have been activated through that stress.

Remember the pregnant mothers in the netherlands after 2ww that faced great hunger.... this crisis situation genetically passed on to the kids.... they were weak with the imune system, slow growing etc. they we're too in survival mode and this never changed for their hole life. It's epigenetic process. I say, this is no more perfect for cuttings...sadly

Find out why he not cared.... make him to want to care for to care
Learning responsibility is the first deciple! YOu dont decide WHEN you must act... the plants decide that... and you better act, for success and dont be lazy any point.... It cant wait.
Make him imagine it's a living pet... and that it in fact is the same way of beeing made from DNA, just having different body, than a dog or a cat, it's just another form, but it's life... its not just a green surface doing something yielding for you, or serves as a beautiful decoration.... you must first show responsibility and respect for the living beeing it is!
It is not simple... it is complex beeing, despite it looking so simple structed, just green, simple leaves, its physiology is very complex, you cant change that. Still scientist find out new mind boggling stuff about plants! They never stop teaching US the lessons!

It is dependant on the grower.
It relies for it's life on the grower.

Fruits can't just be picked, it's a long road...... this is something the simple consument who just thinks it fall from the heaven for some prayers not doing anything, is not valuing, consuments ssee only the value of the material costs, not the attention, time and work you put into not seeing all the things that could go wrong from mother to curing... it' just power, water, soil and nutrients right, easy right, thats what consuments think, that what grower-beginners think..... but the growers skill is still more important than anything for itself alone. It takes a lot of time and a lot of things to keep an eye on, knowledge, experience and patience.... you cant kill it 4 weeks to early because you want something to smoke... so you need also DECIPLE yourself... control you freaking addiction! It's a thing... i knew a guy, i tried everthing to help him... but he killed the plants twice week 5 to smoke it... i gave up with him! Hes a junky, not a grower! I smoke a lot... but im in control of what I do, when i got used up mine... still I dont buy crap or kill the plants to early, getting crazy without dope.... then I smoke nothing, no problem... just as long as I have, I see no reason why not to... because I like it and decided for it!

Nobody said it ever will get easier.

Some look out for completely automated boxes and not want to learn or do anything.... those can never succeed! First problem, anything dies and they calling the manufacturer beeing mad at him, because it not worked outta the box and they have no clue whatsoever... No wonder.

You cant cheat growing weed
We have a speaking: Ohne Fleiß: kein Preis..... what means literally "without diligency: no reward"

Can’t let coco dry out like that. Likely an insane amount of dried up salts in the root zone from drying up and being allowed to reabsorb the runoff. Make a weak mix and flush the shit out of it and deal with the runoff. When the ec of the runoff is close to what you are feeding stop. Clean up that plant of dead leaves and let her spring back to life.

As coco dries out, the EC rises-this is fine with small plants being fed low EC nutrients, but once the root ball fills out a container fully, you need to keep it moist at all times to maintain both the EC and PH. I would be feeding those plants twice per day to 20% runoff. It will take a long time for them to get back in shape but it's possible. You could also just start with a new set of clones and treat them right from day 1.

Sir Cannabis said:

Hello,

I'm on a mission to help a friend with his grow issue

Some stats:
- Goal: mother plants for cloning
- Lifetime plants 4 months as of now
- Medium: Coco
- nutrition: Cocos A B, root and growth stimulator
- PH: between 5.5 - 6.5 (depending on plant status)
- EC: started 0.9 for young vegetative state and was build up to 1.2 during the first two months
- Watering method: from above with a telescopic spray lance
- Watering: every three days, each watering of pots with a 20% runoff. Due to practical limitation runoff was left alone to be absorbed back by the plants.

I was called by a friend in need of help. He invited me to take a look at his sick plants to get some advise. Exactly 4 weeks ago starting 1 september he was unable to care for the plants for two weeks due to private problems . The plants were left alone for two weeks during which nothing was done. No single intervention or watering. They were dry, yellow.

When he came back to the plants (which is two weeks ago starting 15 september) he started his intervention. He continued watering using the regular (above mentioned) regimen, but added a microelement booster used to detoxify plants and combat microelement deficiencies. Watering method was the same, but plants take longer to absorbe all the water (4 days in between). Every watering the root stimulator and micro elementsbooster are added.

In the good times before 1 september the regimen for the mother was good, plants looked lively back then with huge green leaves. Now it seems a nutrient lockout and salt build-up causes the yellowing and a sickness. I see no extreme issues in temperature or humidity, but could be better overall. Maybe a little lack in maintaining the right humidity. His grow room temp (not controlled, only activated during sleeptime when lamps are off) and humidity (semi-controlled meaning he fills the tank manually) are maintained manually. The stems are purple for sure indicating stress due to low temperature from a previous mistake (under better control now).

To give him straight forward advise I suggested I ask some expert with a few photo's at hand.
Really this guy deserves some good luck. in life. He had a rough phew years and as a friend I want him to finally succeed in cloning.
If needed I can answer further questions y'all might have to narrow down the issue. Please don't be afraid of using jargon on me. What is your advise, what to do with the plants and what steps to take. Please expert advise only which means determine cause, sickness and if possible steps to improve (if that possibility is still there given the status of the plants).

Click to expand...

Yes, everyone saying roots died from lack of water is correct. If your soil/medium goes all the way dry once for even a moment, all the capillary root hairs that handle all of the interactions between the plant and the soil/medium will be gone, and it takes about two weeks for them to come back. Now if while your being attentive, before you miss watering times, you use a silicon root/plant protection product like Dyna Grow's Pro-Tekt...it will at least give you a small window of dryness, or heat without [much] consequence...but nothing will give you 2 weeks that I'm aware of

@CheGueVapo : I enjoyed reading your rant. Just know to me you are stating the obvious. The grower had as I mentioned personal problems so no lack of will. Just so you know before the incident the mother were vibrant (in colour) with rapid growth and huge leaves. I second your observation that leaves will continue to die and growth is inhibited until roots recover. I just need the correct steps, which I will personally apply, to speed up the process. CheGueVapo, you could be helpful to answer what you would do in this situation if you chose to recover instead of start anew. I look forward to your reply again. Thanks for the effort it took to respond (like a responsible parent would).

@Dape Green: I made the point to him to start anew like CheGueVapo suggested, but he has his reasons to recover the plants. The salt build-up indeed worries me plenty to start with. I have no practical method to deal with the runoff to prevent reabsorption in this particular grow environment. Besides your advise to flush the salts away until ec is close to feeding (light)mix or cleaning leaves out (which are the basic steps which I second) would you have other advise to speed up the recovery? Any nutrition or additives besides microelements for example?

@Rurumo: I also enjoyed reading your response. It was concrete and to the point. Obviously I have already advised him similar to your tips to perform some form of hyperirrigation. How long is a long time to recover, past 4 weeks? Would you agree with CheGueVapo to start anew and his precautions of hermaphrodite, mutations, slow propagation etc? If you decided to recover instead of start anew what would you change (for example to the mix to speed up the recovery)?

@CalculatedEvils: Dude besides your cool rebellious names you encourage me to study more on the workings of the vascular system and the capillary root hairs more in depth. Obviously, root hairs absorb nutrients in direct contact. I will take your silicon advise to improve cell wall and nutrient uptake.

Sir Cannabis said:

@CheGueVapo : I enjoyed reading your rant. Just know to me you are stating the obvious. The grower had as I mentioned personal problems so no lack of will. Just so you know before the incident the mother were vibrant (in colour) with rapid growth and huge leaves. I second your observation that leaves will continue to die and growth is inhibited until roots recover. I just need the correct steps, which I will personally apply, to speed up the process. CheGueVapo, you could be helpful to answer what you would do in this situation if you chose to recover instead of start anew. I look forward to your reply again. Thanks for the effort it took to respond (like a responsible parent would).

@Dape Green: I made the point to him to start anew like CheGueVapo suggested, but he has his reasons to recover the plants. The salt build-up indeed worries me plenty to start with. I have no practical method to deal with the runoff to prevent reabsorption in this particular grow environment. Besides your advise to flush the salts away until ec is close to feeding (light)mix or cleaning leaves out (which are the basic steps which I second) would you have other advise to speed up the recovery? Any nutrition or additives besides microelements for example?

@Rurumo: I also enjoyed reading your response. It was concrete and to the point. Obviously I have already advised him similar to your tips to perform some form of hyperirrigation. How long is a long time to recover, past 4 weeks? Would you agree with CheGueVapo to start anew and his precautions of hermaphrodite, mutations, slow propagation etc? If you decided to recover instead of start anew what would you change (for example to the mix to speed up the recovery)?

@CalculatedEvils: Dude besides your cool rebellious names you encourage me to study more on the workings of the vascular system and the capillary root hairs more in depth. Obviously, root hairs absorb nutrients in direct contact. I will take your silicon advise to improve cell wall and nutrient uptake.

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You have to deal with that runoff or be able to dial in your feedings perfectly which I don’t think you will achieve at this experience level. If you can’t get rid of excess salt your are bound for failure, and this is only veg, the easy part. Put it in trays, use a shopvac? Consider organic line like Gaia green? Not sure how much run off if any is needed with that approach??. I use canna coco line and water to run off by the end of the daily feeding schedule. I’d be sure to have a good serving of kelp extract and B1 to help my plants recover from this stress.

@Dape Green : The growroom has no space left for trays, but I think he has a shopvac he could use to pump out the entire floor after watering, if the vaccuum sound is tolerable. Not really discrete it is and I'll make sure to take a look at Gaia green, Kelp and B1 or similar products he could use.