Thinking about moving over to soil from hydro

Hey there everyone! I'm not really a posting type of person more of a lurker but I have found myself at a crossroads and would like some advice from the more experienced on the subject. So at the moment I do a perpetual harvest or Sea of Green (SOG)if you will, running 6 gutters broken up into groups of 2, making three groups, that harvest a group every 3 weeks and I run on 9wk schedule's if that makes any sense. But anyway's each gutter is 5' long and holds 6 plants, so 12 plants a group that harvest every 3wk's. I have a 1000k HPS that is on a light mover that travels 2 or 3 feet across the longer area of my room giving an even array of light to all my plants. I run a fully monitored and controlled room with Co2 and all the proper ventilation, heating and cooling. I originally started growing in soil some 14-15 years ago and didn't mind it but felt that hydro would just be cleaner and more controlled with a lot less bug issues, due to inexperience at the time bugs were my demise. I typically cut clones at about 9" long and root in an aeroponic cloner and once roots appear break apart a 1.5" rockwool cube and put the clone in that and then into a 4x4x2 rockwool block that goes into a small flood and drain table that vegetates the clones to an average of about 14"-18" in height. From there the clones will progress into the bloom room that is a controlled environment, plants are placed in gutters and set a sail for the next 9wk's. I have come to an average of about 140-170 grams per 12 plant harvest which runs to about 3/8-1/2oz a plant give or take depending on strain.

I hope that's enough detail for you guy's. Now everything runs like clockwork and really is on auto pilot and what I'm looking for at the moment is a way out of my problem. My problem is that my entire grow is in a shed that is about 12'x7'x7' and this is cut into 34'x7'x7' sections (Veg, Bloom, Work rm.), which are more of a rectangular shaped rm's hence the light mover that is needed. So I'm growing in pretty tight quarters, but this isn't my first BBQ and hydro SOG works best in the tight situations due to being able to grow my many small plants in this small area to get a descent yield. I've always chosen the hydro way over the soil way mainly due to less bug issues but my experience is definitely not what it was 14-15 years ago by any means and its rare that any bugs come in the garden, prevention is key. But the older I get the harder it's getting to move the 40 needed gallons of water in and out of this shed and since growing in a three cycle 9wk grow cycle I have to run three separate reservoirs that all have to be watered differently since at different stages and all my 9 mothers are DWC that require water and flood and drain for veg...more water....and water for the aeropoinic cloner....MORE WATER!!! If you haven't seen the pattern by now my problem is there's just to much water involved. And to top it off I work my ass off in my garden and grow some excellent grade smoke but it always seems like my good friend that grows always pulls off danker looking, tasting, and smelling nugs which always gets to me...lol

So here's why I have posted...

With all of the information that I have provided is there someone that is experienced in running a SOG with soil that can enlighten me with some soil knowledge? I know bugs are no prob. and that nutes are on lock, but where I go grey is if I'm getting 6-7 ounces every 3wk's how can I achieve this in the parameter's of my space in soil. I need to keep the production because I grow for 3 and we consume this in the three wk's. I am looking to keep to my 3wk harvest schedule but also thought a QP every other wk on 4 two week cycles could work too. So in what I know of hydro vs soil is that my hydro will get heavier buds on a shorter plant...so should I veg my soil plants a little longer like 3-4wk's and flower at 24"? Or is this achievable at the same height and the hydro pulls more weight theory is a fluke? I was thinking of trying a possible 16 plants in groups of 4 pulling an ounce a plant (putting plant into flower at 24" high), can this be done at that height or should they be bigger (I know that it's really strain dependent but in a general rule of thumb is it achievable)? I was aiming for 1, 1.5 or 2 gallon pots...suggestions? And in your professional opinions from the people that have grown in hydro avidly and in soil what do you think, does soil really pull a better taste and smell? Do I need to have slightly bigger plants to achieve my goals and is it doable? Comment's, questions and advice is much appreciated! THX!

12x7 with one thousand watt? thats your problem, not your grow. your grow looks great. stay hydro or go soil. honestly, done right, hydro gets bigger buds. soil will get you best quality IMO if you can grow with it properly. i use a soilless medium. (sunshine mix#4). that light mover is cool, but mostly bullshit. i use 4 thousand watts under a 12x10 canopy. more light will get you more potent, more dense nugs.

if you do decide to go soil, i would definitely switch up your perpetual to two instead of 4 cycles. that way you dont have to mix 4 different batches of water, that would cause me to get lazy and lack on other parts of my grow.

good luck hope this helps

Hey thanks patrick, the 1000 watt light is in the flower rm that is 4'x7'x7' and that is why I use the light mover due to the flower rm being rectangle. I was running 2 1000w lights but its just to much $$ right now and really want to do 2 600w lights but the 1000w is what I got to work with at the moment. I have no problems mixing 3 different batches or 4 of different nutes I really am looking if you guys think 4 plants flowered at 2' could produce a qp? It sounds fine and doable to me but thats hydro....what about soil? is a 2' tall plant to small to do this? Thx

i flower at 2 feet and average about 4 ounces per plant with soilless medium. are you bringing in fresh air? or doing co2?

A little of both, I run Co2 and bring in fresh air when the temp get to hot. What kind of soilless medium are you using?

BrownGuy420 said:

A little of both, I run Co2 and bring in fresh air when the temp get to hot. What kind of soilless medium are you using?

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i use sunshine mix4. ive heard bad things about mixing fresh air and co2, may have something to do with your yield but im not sure. how many plants did you say total you are going with all 4 cycles?

A buddy of mine raves about sunshine mix4 he wont use anything else. That's a pretty good idea, I think I just might go with that. I am on the fence still with 3 or 4 cycles but I want to pretty much do about 3 to 4 plants a cycle. I figure veg to 24" and lollipop the lower 1/3 to 1/2. What exactly is the sunshine mix made of? Also do you feel that your buds taste and smell the same as soil does? My ultimate goal is to achieve that do to that is what I am lacking in the hydro game. I love hydro but at this point in time I am really pursuing those great tastes and smells, I know a lot has to do with stain dependency but my buddy grows all my left over clones and they always have a better taste and smell and I'm starting to think soil is the key like a lot of people say, my buds smell great and taste great but side by side I am starting to think that soil might take hydro on the taste and smell categories. Just a connoisseur looking to produce the best quality smoke I can.

i wouldnt veg any larger than 24 inches, sounds like it would get real crowded with 16 of them. you should be getting around 2 ounces a piece pretty easy with that much veg. the mix 4 is just a peatmoss/perlite mix with a little dolomite lime or whatever thats called. look and smell are about the same, but taste is probably still a little better in soil. for me the yield makes up a huge difference with the mix4 though, i prefer to know whats in my mix and control it rather than have some time release.

what nutes are you using?

Well for flower I use Pureblend pro bloom that is organically based, roots excelerator, bio root, mykos mychorize (every other week), Dark energy, hygrozyme, cal mag, dyna silica, liquid carboload, clearex, aquashield, primordial solutions sea green and at various stages big bud, crystal burst, nirvana and overdrive. I think that I might give the sunshine mix a try, unless someone out there has a rebuttle about it....what are you using patrick?

I think your light is your main issue. At 170g with 1,000w hps, you're pulling like 0.17 grams per watt. 0.5 - 1.0 grams per watt seems to be the average around here. If you need 50w per ft[SUP]2[/SUP] then you're shy of that by about 400 watts in 4'x7' grow area. Being a long rectangle probably complicates that a little. I don't do soil, but everything I've heard about soil is that it's more work. You will probably get slightly smaller yields as well, and take slightly longer to grow.

im using advanced. your nutes seem fine. seems as if your over feeding, or there is an issue with the fresh air and co2 being mixed. .5gpw is pretty standard for a mediocre grower and you said you have done this awhile. best advise i can give is master what you know before you go changing it up for something else. if you keep making drastic changes and you dont see it in your yield then your not going to be able to narrow down the issue.

Malevolence said:

I think your light is your main issue. At 170g with 1,000w hps, you're pulling like 0.17 grams per watt. 0.5 - 1.0 grams per watt seems to be the average around here. If you need 50w per ft[SUP]2[/SUP] then you're shy of that by about 400 watts in 4'x7' grow area. Being a long rectangle probably complicates that a little. I don't do soil, but everything I've heard about soil is that it's more work. You will probably get slightly smaller yields as well, and take slightly longer to grow.

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Ya a little below the radar on the gram per watt comparison but I've never really hit the 1 gram per watt more or less in the .5 area give or take. This is why I'm looking to go with a soilless medium. As Patrick had suggested I think I'm going to go with the sunshine mix #4 or pretty much make my own. Been doin a lot of research and sunshine peat moss is $13 for 4cu ft and 2cu ct of perlite is about $15 and then I can mix a little dolomite lime in there and I'll end up with more product for less than the cost of the sunshine mix and then I can choose how much air consistency the mix has. When it comes to growth times I have never really seen the hydro finish up any quicker but maybe by a few days and thats about it. I do think that growing in soil will affect the size of my yield but that is why I am thinking of using the soilless mixture because it is still hydroponic but in a way that more soil style. Still not sure on what to ph it all to, what I've read is about 6.0 plus the dolomite lime will help as a buffer. Do you think that a soil sytle soilless medium is going to yeild less than if I keep doing my NFT gutter system? I also was reading about mixing coco in with the #4 mix with good results, anyone tried this? good?bad? Thanks

patrickkawi37 said:

im using advanced. your nutes seem fine. seems as if your over feeding, or there is an issue with the fresh air and co2 being mixed. .5gpw is pretty standard for a mediocre grower and you said you have done this awhile. best advise i can give is master what you know before you go changing it up for something else. if you keep making drastic changes and you dont see it in your yield then your not going to be able to narrow down the issue.

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Ya I used to run DWC buckets and pretty much mastered that and at the time was running 2k watts and my average was 1 gram per watt and was growing in 12'x12' rooms that had everything spot on and at that time running Technaflora products....Ahhhh the good ol' day!....then I got a divorce, she got the house and my wonderful adventure was over. Since then I have moved to a different state to where I can be legal but now have had to sacrifice my career to do it tho (long story) and am only making only about a 1/4 of what I used to and back in school to learn a new career so living in a small studio house and growing in the shed. I moved to a completly different kind of climate and have had to in the 4 years of living here which the first 2 years I didn't grow cause I couldn't afford it I have been battling this new climate and have had to go from growing big DWC plants to little plants...not really my thing and since I started these gutters (3months ago) I've been progressively getting better and better with it. But in the close quarters that I'm in it's really the whole water issue of moving all these gallons of water around and the constant filling and cleaning of reservoirs that's killing me. I work 2 jobs at the moment and studying for a networking degree so time is precious and I don't want all my free time taken up changing out all my reservoirs (3 5gal res, 1 10gal res, 9 3gal res's).
It just seems to me a lot easier to go in and water my plants every other day by hand probably and get away with only needing a few gallons at a time and a whole lot less time to do all this. Of course when I finish my degree and buy a house again It's right back to the DWC system that I know but for now I need less time in the garden and a way to use less water during each watering.

i think mix4 might not be the way to go for you if your not trying to spend alot of time in the garden. my buddies laugh at how much work i have to do for 4 lights, but it pays off when i get enough meds. i have to water everyday in a soilless mix, every other day in the beginning of flower. if you went straight soil they usually only drink every 3 days or so.

patrickkawi37 said:

i think mix4 might not be the way to go for you if your not trying to spend alot of time in the garden. my buddies laugh at how much work i have to do for 4 lights, but it pays off when i get enough meds. i have to water everyday in a soilless mix, every other day in the beginning of flower. if you went straight soil they usually only drink every 3 days or so.

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Thx patrick I really appreciate your understanding and help with what it is Im looking to acomplish here, your the only one the seems to be giving me advice on 2 websites and not trying to analyze what I'm not doing in my system. And from what I'm understanding from you is that your growing in straight #4 mix....right?...I like the idea and am thinking of either going straight #4 mix or mixing FF OceanForest into it at a 2/1 ratio, what's your thoughts on that? Only thing I can see it that the soil part could inhibit me from some of my yield? or would there be to much peat moss to knotice a difference? I really don't mind watering by hand everyday just as long as I can do it by hand, I can water 12 plants a lot easier that the 36 I am running at the moment in flower. Is there anything you don't like about the mix? Thx mayn your really helping me out here, traditional hydro is all I know and making a big switch like this is a hard thing to do without proper knowledge! +1rep

I am doing my first grow is soil instead of hydro, cant tell you how much eaiser it is, my god.

With that said I am in flower now and all is well, I went with Happy Frog Soil and I have no complaints at all.

no worries bro, i know how it is to be looking for answers and having trouble findind help. i have a buddy that used to cut half and half happy frog with mix4 and he said it worked real well for him. i have not personally done this so i dont want to say "ya great idea". i usually run straight mix4, this batch i had a little problem with fungus gnats so i been added a layer of about 10 percent perlite to the top of the buckets. kinda a pain in the ass cause i cant look at the top of the dirt to see how dry they are, but they seem to like it so i think i will add 10% or so to each bag next time. i been looking into mixing coco and mix4, this will probably be my next step, but i want to be full hydro in about 3 years, a little bit at a time lol. so when saying your going to do 12 plants instead of 36 are you going to be vegging a little longer or topping them? what strains did you say you were running? sorry if i already asked im stoned ha.

patrickkawi37 said:

no worries bro, i know how it is to be looking for answers and having trouble findind help. i have a buddy that used to cut half and half happy frog with mix4 and he said it worked real well for him. i have not personally done this so i dont want to say "ya great idea". i usually run straight mix4, this batch i had a little problem with fungus gnats so i been added a layer of about 10 percent perlite to the top of the buckets. kinda a pain in the ass cause i cant look at the top of the dirt to see how dry they are, but they seem to like it so i think i will add 10% or so to each bag next time. i been looking into mixing coco and mix4, this will probably be my next step, but i want to be full hydro in about 3 years, a little bit at a time lol. so when saying your going to do 12 plants instead of 36 are you going to be vegging a little longer or topping them? what strains did you say you were running? sorry if i already asked im stoned ha.

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Ya I was looking into doing the cut with coco too, was reading a thread on it and guy was having great results. Running full hydro is a lot of fun and I'll be back there again but until I'm done with my degree I gotta slow it up with the garden so for the next year or so its as close as I can get...soilless! Ya I decided to go with 4 cycles doing 3 plants a run and 4 if I can get enough room. So 4 different stages so I can harvest my 3-4 plants every 2wk's give or take. I will veg my plants to 2' - 2 1/2' and then put into flower. I am hooked of perpetual grows, its nice so that you can always have something nice and fresh so puff on. I will be making my first #4 grow with sour diesel which is one of my favorite strains and I have the best knowledge on, but then on to my other mothers of blueberry, jack herrer, bubblegum, godbud, blue magoo, uk cheese, bubba kush, lemon kush, pineapple trainwreck and soon to pop from seed my white widows!

BrownGuy420 said:

Ya I was looking into doing the cut with coco too, was reading a thread on it and guy was having great results. Running full hydro is a lot of fun and I'll be back there again but until I'm done with my degree I gotta slow it up with the garden so for the next year or so its as close as I can get...soilless! Ya I decided to go with 4 cycles doing 3 plants a run and 4 if I can get enough room. So 4 different stages so I can harvest my 3-4 plants every 2wk's give or take. I will veg my plants to 2' - 2 1/2' and then put into flower. I am hooked of perpetual grows, its nice so that you can always have something nice and fresh so puff on. I will be making my first #4 grow with sour diesel which is one of my favorite strains and I have the best knowledge on, but then on to my other mothers of blueberry, jack herrer, bubblegum, godbud, blue magoo, uk cheese, bubba kush, lemon kush, pineapple trainwreck and soon to pop from seed my white widows!

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sounds awesome dude, im hooked on growing that bubblegum! i look forward to see how its going in a few weeks! check out my thread as well

What do you think of the bubblegum? it's about 2wks out from harvest and is looking DANK! It's covered in crystals and is smelling just like bubblegum. Just dont look like a heavy producer compared to the other strains I'm runnin