Thought crimes?

Dr Kynes

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
I'm not sure you are in the right context here. You assume that a civilian living in their home is "in the way" . That's interesting. Just because something happens on a frequent basis, wars and killing of innocents , it doesn't mean it is justified does it? Your reference to Somali pirates...hmm...how is that relevant to a discussion of whether it is just to kill innocent people?
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when you live within the city walls of Samarkand and the Mongols start catapaulting stones over the merlons, they didnt actually TARGET your house, your house and it's occupants were in the way. is this sufficiently clear?

the sniped pirates were not tried in a court of law, and in fact those of their comrades who were tried, were acquitted of all but the least serious offenses, thus they must by definition have been innocent of the crime of piracy, and as theft does not hold a death sentence in the US surely you must see the relevance.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Dr Kynes said:
when you live within the city walls of Samarkand and the Mongols start catapaulting stones over the merlons, they didnt actually TARGET your house, your house and it's occupants were in the way. is this sufficiently clear?

the sniped pirates were not tried in a court of law, and in fact those of their comrades who were tried, were acquitted of all but the least serious offenses, thus they must by definition have been innocent of the crime of piracy, and as theft does not hold a death sentence in the US surely you must see the relevance.
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Okay... so again because something happens doesn't give justification that it SHOULD happen. Got it... Mongols catapulted swaddled babies into my house. If I never harmed any of the mongols was their behavior justified ? How ?
 
Samwell Seed Well

Samwell Seed Well

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
Ahh...you're "on to me" darn and I thought I was stealthily covering my tracks.

I think the idea of whether or not you choose to be a person that initiates aggresion or not is pretty simple. You either believe it is acceptable to be the one to initiate aggression or you don't.

I assume your dead friends will not be attesting to anything, but hey what do I know?
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your a piece of shit, go on keep making light of the people who have died in these wars

you respect the soilder not judge them for the choices you would or wouldn't have made

thats your narcissism talking

man some people are so disrespectful, you have no idea how the world works
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Samwell Seed Well said:
your a piece of shit, go on keep making light of the people who have died in these wars

you respect the soilder not judge them for the choices you would or wouldn't have made

thats your narcissism talking

man some people are so disrespectful, you have no idea how the world works
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I respect people that don't steal, that don't aggress against others and that can get their point across without resorting to insults.

Respect can't be demanded or it ceases to be respect, it then becomes submission. Blindly following orders is no justification or blanket coverage for acts of aggression. Surely you are aware of the Nuremberg trials?

So I'm disrespectful? Hmm, I believe you have been the one name calling and such. If the world "works" by accepting ideas that killing people is a matter of "just doing your job" I'd like to change that.
 
C

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
Okay, I see the mental midget wrestler has tagged out and brought in his champion. This should be interesting.
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nah I went and got some cartomizers for my e cig
I'm back
but me and the wife are going to watch some blu ray movies

basically you suck at debating
And Kyne is tearing your ass up
 
Samwell Seed Well

Samwell Seed Well

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
I respect people that don't steal, that don't aggress against others and that can get their point across without resorting to insults.

Respect can't be demanded or it ceases to be respect, it then becomes submission. Blindly following orders is no justification or blanket coverage for acts of aggression. Surely you are aware of the Nuremberg trials?

So I'm disrespectful? Hmm, I believe you have been the one name calling and such. If the world "works" by accepting ideas that killing people is a matter of "just doing your job" I'd like to change that.
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if you think the words i use to describe your understanding of the subject at hand, war and children casualties, like obtuse and ignorant and a statement where i say stfu,

are equal to disrespecting the life of dead solders then ya ill stand by my claim your a piece of shit

and ya when i said you cant comprehend anything unless is spoken monosyllabic enough for you , i referring to your inability to understand something you disagree with, funny thing i dont agree with war either doesn't mean i pretend to not understand how it works, your a child keep trying to spin attention from your own ignorance
 
C

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
desert dude said:
Depends on how you define it. I think DOD/CIA are targeting enemies but they also know there will be collateral damage in the form of innocents killed, some of those innocents will be children. Somebody in the Obama administration has made a calculation that the collateral damage is acceptable. I am convinced that if there was a way to avoid any collateral damage (short of just giving up) then that method would be used.

Would you be on here defending Bush the way you are defending Obama? Romney?
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Yes in the case of Afghanistan I would and did
Bush forgot about Afghanistan though for some reason
 
Dr Kynes

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
Okay... so again because something happens doesn't give justification that it SHOULD happen. Got it... Mongols catapulted swaddled babies into my house. If I never harmed any of the mongols was their behavior justified ? How ?
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the mongols wer nomadic raiders, their Anarcho-Stab-You-In-The-Neckism culture justified their raiding as a part of the beautiful and diverse tapestry of their ancient and storied culture. you obviously fail to grasp the significance of the reference, so i shall enlighten you.

in 1366 the city of Samarkand which had surrendered to ghengis khan some 175 years earlier without a fight and as a result had nearly all of it's wealth stolen, and nearly half the population carted away as slaves went into rebellion. they suffered under the "benevolent rule" of the mongols ever since their gret grandfather's surrender and finally decided they had enough of the mongol empire. they refused to pay the demanded tribute then sealed up their gates.

the Khan at the time Tammerlane, decided to make an example of the city. he captured several hundred of the city's rural folk, and used their living bodies to form his breastwork and siege fortifications. the samarkandians did not fire upon the captives. Tamerlane then began bombarding the city and it's walls with stones of all sizes, and the living bodies of his captives from the surrounding area. the city still did not return fire. eventually the city submitted peacefully without ever even fighting back for fear of harming their innocent fellow citizens.

after their second go-round of nonviolent resistance to the khans, the entire population estimated at 700,000 by historical accounts was put to the sword, from old gaffers to infants, man woman child, every singe one of them. just for fun, the mighty and benevolent khan had a pyramid constructed by the few remaining survivors to honor his triumph. the pyramid was reported to stand 15 cubits high, and it was comprised entirely of piled up heads. the laborers who constructed the monument were rewarded for their peaceful acquiescence by having their heads tossed at the foot of the monument they have erected before the great and benevolent khan rode away.

does non-violence still sound like a good solution to violence from a foreign power striking at our civilian population? i find the idea of non-violence repellant.
 
C

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
Hey who was the Middle ages general who stabbed out a eye of 1000 prisoners?

he only stabbed out one eye so they could see well enough to march back home the 14000 prisoners who he had both eyes poked out of

ETA

basil

The prisonersSkylitzes records that Basil completely routed the Bulgarian army and, according to John Skylitzes's account of the battle, took 15,000 prisoners (14,000 according to Kekaumenos). Modern historians however, such as Vasil Zlatarski, claim that these numbers are exaggerated. The 14th century Bulgarian translation of the Manasses Chronicle numbers the prisoners at 8,000. Basil divided the prisoners into groups of 100 men, blinded 99 men in each group and left one man in each with one eye so that he could lead the others home;[SUP][37][/SUP] this was done in retaliation for the death of Botaneiates, who was Basil's favourite general and advisor, and also to crush the Bulgarian morale.[SUP][38][/SUP] Another possible reason was that, in Byzantine eyes, the Bulgarians were rebels against their authority, and blinding was the usual punishment meted out to rebels.[SUP][39][/SUP] For this action, Basil gained the nickname Boulgaroktonos (Greek: Βουλγαροκτόνος), "the Bulgar-slayer". Samuel died of a heart attack on October 6, 1014, reportedly due to seeing his soldiers blinded.[SUP][40][/SUP]
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Samwell Seed Well said:
if you think the words i use to describe your understanding of the subject at hand, war and children casualties, like obtuse and ignorant and a statement where i say stfu,

are equal to disrespecting the life of dead solders then ya ill stand by my claim your a piece of shit
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I disrespect the mechanisms that allow there to BE dead soldiers and "collateral damage" babies. I think you are missing the point, but since you have appointed me a piece of shit, I'll just sit here and draw flies.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Dr Kynes said:
the mongols wer nomadic raiders, their Anarcho-Stab-You-In-The-Neckism culture justified their raiding as a part of the beautiful and diverse tapestry of their ancient and storied culture. you obviously fail to grasp the significance of the reference, so i shall enlighten you.

in 1366 the city of Samarkand which had surrendered to ghengis khan some 175 years earlier without a fight and as a result had nearly all of it's wealth stolen, and nearly half the population carted away as slaves went into rebellion. they suffered under the "benevolent rule" of the mongols ever since their gret grandfather's surrender and finally decided they had enough of the mongol empire. they refused to pay the demanded tribute then sealed up their gates.

the Khan at the time Tammerlane, decided to make an example of the city. he captured several hundred of the city's rural folk, and used their living bodies to form his breastwork and siege fortifications. the samarkandians did not fire upon the captives. Tamerlane then began bombarding the city and it's walls with stones of all sizes, and the living bodies of his captives from the surrounding area. the city still did not return fire. eventually the city submitted peacefully without ever even fighting back for fear of harming their innocent fellow citizens.

after their second go-round of nonviolent resistance to the khans, the entire population estimated at 700,000 by historical accounts was put to the sword, from old gaffers to infants, man woman child, every singe one of them. just for fun, the mighty and benevolent khan had a pyramid constructed by the few remaining survivors to honor his triumph. the pyramid was reported to stand 15 cubits high, and it was comprised entirely of piled up heads. the laborers who constructed the monument were rewarded for their peaceful acquiescence by having their heads tossed at the foot of the monument they have erected before the great and benevolent khan rode away.

does non-violence still sound like a good solution to violence from a foreign power striking at our civilian population? i find the idea of non-violence repellant.
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Nice story. When did I ever say I didn't believe in self defense?
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
ChesusRice said:
Hey who was the Middle ages general who stabbed out a eye of 1000 prisoners?

he only stabbed out one eye so they could see well enough to march back home the 14000 prisoners who he had both eyes poked out of

ETA

basil

The prisonersSkylitzes records that Basil completely routed the Bulgarian army and, according to John Skylitzes's account of the battle, took 15,000 prisoners (14,000 according to Kekaumenos). Modern historians however, such as Vasil Zlatarski, claim that these numbers are exaggerated. The 14th century Bulgarian translation of the Manasses Chronicle numbers the prisoners at 8,000. Basil divided the prisoners into groups of 100 men, blinded 99 men in each group and left one man in each with one eye so that he could lead the others home;[SUP][37][/SUP] this was done in retaliation for the death of Botaneiates, who was Basil's favourite general and advisor, and also to crush the Bulgarian morale.[SUP][38][/SUP] Another possible reason was that, in Byzantine eyes, the Bulgarians were rebels against their authority, and blinding was the usual punishment meted out to rebels.[SUP][39][/SUP] For this action, Basil gained the nickname Boulgaroktonos (Greek: Βουλγαροκτόνος), "the Bulgar-slayer". Samuel died of a heart attack on October 6, 1014, reportedly due to seeing his soldiers blinded.[SUP][40][/SUP]
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General Obama ? No wait that was babies that were dumb enough to be in the wrong place. Hey...wait a minute...I thought you got out the airpump and were going to blow up the inflatable wife for a night of fun? You finish THAT quick! Damn son...foreplay.
 
Samwell Seed Well

Samwell Seed Well

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
I disrespect the mechanisms that allow there to BE dead soldiers and "collateral damage" babies. I think you are missing the point, but since you have appointed me a piece of shit, I'll just sit here and draw flies.
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your bleeding heart serves no purpose other than to put borders between you and others so you can feel good about yourself . . .. . . narcissist


why dont you stop paying for internet, gas, and send all the money you saved not buying things you dont need to Africa where the starving children are from those commercials. why dont you sell all your possessions and stop buying corporate items as the capital your possessions gets funded into all sorts of non ethical and moral situations

blow hard like you piss me off, you can talk about being fair and equal but in the end you cant even do what you preach, and have zero understanding of how life works that is give and take, sucks its like that but it is reality, ignoring this fact only makes you well out of touch


what efforts or sacrifices have you made in life, to prove your point, my friends had to die, and kids innocent kids had to die so you can have a point . . .fucking BS
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Samwell Seed Well said:
your bleeding heart serves no purpose other than to put borders between you and others so you can feel good about yourself . . .. . . narcissist


why dont you stop paying for internet, gas, and send all the money you saved not buying things you dont need to africa where the starving children are from those commercials. why dont you sell all your possessions and stop buying corporate items as the capital your possessions gets funded into all sorts of non ethical and moral situations

blow hards like you piss me off, you can talk about being fair and equal but in the end you cant even do what you preach
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I don't watch tv anymore, so I'll take your word for it about the commercials. I usually just sit around drawing flies and admire my stench.

I'm gonna have to bow out now, but I wish you the best and hope you get laid someday real soon. Peace.
 
Samwell Seed Well

Samwell Seed Well

Well-Known Member
you gave up TV good job . . .. . .what are you 12

how is that a sacrifice . . TV is fucking horrible

and you do know that most of Africa is Malnourished and without clean drinking water right, you dont need to watch TV to know this dip shit
 
Dr Kynes

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
Nice story. When did I ever say I didn't believe in self defense?
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you lament that nation states even exist due to their insistence on engaging in war, and their "aggression" which you clearly do not know the meaning of.

the mongol empire only existed due to the chinese inability to defend the middle kingdom by arms. they bribed the khans, and the khans went looking for others to raid.

upon their inital encounters with the mongols and the other tribal steppe peoples from far of asia majoris, rome instituted the same policy that they used against raiding gauls germanics and scandinavians.

if at any time they attack a roman colony, roman citizen, or roman asset, rome will rally several legions, pay some scythian horsemen as mercenaries and march off to burn your village to the ground.

unfortunately the plan that worked so well against european raiders with towns and villages was ineffective against nomadic bands. rome spent 100 years chasing these assholes around the desert with very little success.

had rome been able to pin them down and deliver the punishment that rome was rightly famous for, the mongols would have decided to leave europa the fuck alone. it is a sad fact of history that rome failed to hold it's borders against the mongols, and the constant mobilization weakened the legions, depleted the coffers, and led to the incursion by the vandals and the visigoths, then eventually the mongol hordes themselves. thus creating the dark ages.

the failure to aggressively prosecute punitive war against barbarians in defense of civilization results in the collapse of civilization. this same course of action resulted in the fall of the middle kingdom in china, but they did not fall to the mongols, they kept the mongols out with the wall of a thousand li, but sadly, the xiongnu barbarians were inside the walls already, on the korean peninsula. thus china too had it's dark age.
 
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