• Here is a link to the full explanation: https://rollitup.org/t/welcome-back-did-you-try-turning-it-off-and-on-again.1104810/

Thoughts on my veg tea and Roots Organic nutrients?

R

Red Tail

New Member
Just got my card recently and picked up a few babies and started brewing some tea. They are in 1 gal pots of premixed OG soil from a grow store. Transplanted about a week ago and they've been looking pretty hungry. I fed them this tea recipe yesterday (minus the Foundation) and they didn't burn. I started another batch today and going to get Foundation to add in because it supposedly prevents calcium and magnesium deficiencies. They're about a foot tall or a little smaller, under a 600w mh. I used to buy ingredients separate for my garden, but was talked into buying Roots Organic nutes this time to make it easier. Any intelligent insight and advice would be appreciated. Here's what I got... 1gal of well water, 1TBL Roots Organic Uprising Grow, 1TBL Roots Organic Foundation, 1TBL Oregonism XL, 1TBL Ancient Amber, 1/4cup worm castings, 1TBL hi brix molasses from earth juice.. Brewing in a bucket for 24 hours with an air stone at about 75 degrees..... Let me know what you think. Anyone use Roots OG nutrients? If so, what are your thoughts? More or less of anything? Any additional ingredients? Should I feed this amount with every watering? Every other? Thanks and Bless, ;)
 
SpicySativa

SpicySativa

Well-Known Member
Welcome. It sounds like you are on the right track, but I have a couple pointers. I'm going to be brief here, because I swear I have typed these same responses at least 30 times on this forum alone.

- Don't waste your Oregonism XL by "brewing" it. It will not grow in your "brew"; instead, it will likely just get consumed by the bacteria and fungi which DO grow during the brew. The only effective use for the Oregonism XL (or any other mycorrhizal fungi product) is to apply it DIRECTLY to the roots in powder form when you transplant.

- With each "brew", you need to decide whether the goal is to supply microbial life or supply nutrition for the microbial life if your soil. The best approach is not to simply add a little of everything you've got to a bucket and bubble it for 24 hours. Are you making an actively aerated compost tea (AACT) to inoculate your soil with a diverse mix office ones? If so, DO IT RIGHT (in other words leave out everything you listed other than worm castings and molasses). Are you looking to feed the microbial life already present in your soil, and, in doing so, feed your plant? THAT is when you break out the various Roots products (if bottled nutrients are your weapon of choice).

Thats all I've got for now. Good luck!
 
R

Red Tail

New Member
Hey Spicy, Thanks a ton for the insight. I was wondering if adding the XL to the tea was pointless, but I did add it to the roots when transplanting also so that's a plus. I guess my thought of brewing all of the ingredients together with the tea was to supply the plants with a quick dose of nutrients rather than applying to the top of the soil (I didn't amend any of these ingredients into my soil mix because i've never used this soil before and didn't want to risk any burning). So to answer your question, yes im trying to feed the microbial life in the soil, but also adding a quick dose of liquid nutrients to the soil as well because the soil seems to be lacking a bit. Would you recommend just adding the dry ingredients to the top of the soil instead? If so, why would this work better than mixing them with the tea? I've mixed guanos, kelp and other dry ingredients to my teas before with wonderful results.
 
st0wandgrow

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
Red Tail said:
Hey Spicy, Thanks a ton for the insight. I was wondering if adding the XL to the tea was pointless, but I did add it to the roots when transplanting also so that's a plus. I guess my thought of brewing all of the ingredients together with the tea was to supply the plants with a quick dose of nutrients rather than applying to the top of the soil (I didn't amend any of these ingredients into my soil mix because i've never used this soil before and didn't want to risk any burning). So to answer your question, yes im trying to feed the microbial life in the soil, but also adding a quick dose of liquid nutrients to the soil as well because the soil seems to be lacking a bit. Would you recommend just adding the dry ingredients to the top of the soil instead? If so, why would this work better than mixing them with the tea? I've mixed guanos, kelp and other dry ingredients to my teas before with wonderful results.
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Simply put: some of the ingredients you add can hinder the microbial multiplication of an ACT. An ACT will multiply the microbes present in your compost up to 10,000x. When you apply the ACT to your soil, the microbes will get to work breaking down the dry amendments that you added directly to the soil making them available to the plant to uptake.
 
SpicySativa

SpicySativa

Well-Known Member
I didn't mean to imply that you shouldn't brew teas from things like guano, kelp, alfalfa, etc (or Roots liquids, if that is your choice). Guano teas, kelp teas, and alfalfa teas are all great tools. What I meant is that you should try to separate out the two; compost teas versus nutrient teas. A compost tea brew will result in the highest diversity and overall quality if you don't add additional nutrients (i.e. Roots grow formula). A nutrient tea of course has nutrients, but will not be very effective at growing diverse microbiology in the brewer. Adding some worm castings or molasses may help, but a nutrient tea is not an ideal environment for growing a diverse array of soil microbiology. I'm not saying that tea you listed wouldn't provide nutrients to the plant, just that it could be EVEN more effective if it were split into two teas given during two successive waterings.

For example... First brew and apply a nutrient tea with your Roots nutrients (or other more "raw" ingredients like kelp, guano or alfalfa). Then when the plants are just about thirsty again, brew and apply an AACT with just worm castings and molasses. This will introduce a bunch of new life to your soil, and effectively deliver those Roots nutrients to your plants. This two-step approach will be more effective than the pile-it-all-in-a-bucket approach. You could get in a routine of water only, nutrient tea, AACT, repeat. Or something of that sort.

Make sense?
 
R

Red Tail

New Member
cool, thanks for the input. I'll let you know how it goes. And what about adding humic acid into the tea? Should I keep that with nutrient waterings or does it benefit the compost tea?
 
st0wandgrow

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
SpicySativa said:
I didn't mean to imply that you shouldn't brew teas from things like guano, kelp, alfalfa, etc (or Roots liquids, if that is your choice). Guano teas, kelp teas, and alfalfa teas are all great tools. What I meant is that you should try to separate out the two; compost teas versus nutrient teas. A compost tea brew will result in the highest diversity and overall quality if you don't add additional nutrients (i.e. Roots grow formula). A nutrient tea of course has nutrients, but will not be very effective at growing diverse microbiology in the brewer. Adding some worm castings or molasses may help, but a nutrient tea is not an ideal environment for growing a diverse array of soil microbiology. I'm not saying that tea you listed wouldn't provide nutrients to the plant, just that it could be EVEN more effective if it were split into two teas given during two successive waterings.

For example... First brew and apply a nutrient tea with your Roots nutrients (or other more "raw" ingredients like kelp, guano or alfalfa). Then when the plants are just about thirsty again, brew and apply an AACT with just worm castings and molasses. This will introduce a bunch of new life to your soil, and effectively deliver those Roots nutrients to your plants. This two-step approach will be more effective than the pile-it-all-in-a-bucket approach. You could get in a routine of water only, nutrient tea, AACT, repeat. Or something of that sort.

Make sense?
Click to expand...
^that^

i wouldn't bother with the humic acid in your tea. Per a very respected persons (Tim Wilson) research it's something that will actually hinder your ACT. Humic acid is a bi-product of good compost, so I suppose adding more may throw things out of whack. Just speculating on that... but either way I would heed the advice. Adding it to a nutrient tea might be a better option.
 
Scroga

Scroga

Well-Known Member
I don't understand nutrient tea concept? Why bother brewing if nothing is being multiplied? Is ewc used in nutrient tea also?
 
st0wandgrow

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
Scroga said:
I don't understand nutrient tea concept? Why bother brewing if nothing is being multiplied? Is ewc used in nutrient tea also?
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The thinking behind it is that it's a readily available food source for the microbes in your medium. For example, if you happen to notice what you think is an N deficiency early in flower, rather than top dress dry amendments and wait the requisite time for the granules to be broken down and become plant available, you can bubble something like alfalfa which will strip/liquefy the nutritional value from it and supply a more immediate food source to the microbes.

I used to do this weekly, but I'm beginning to notice that teas in general aren't necessary if your soil (namely your compost) is dialed in. Rrog has been preaching this for ever, and it turns out he's right. Shocker
 
aisach

aisach

Active Member
SpicySativa said:
- With each "brew", you need to decide whether the goal is to supply microbial life or supply nutrition for the microbial life if your soil. The best approach is not to simply add a little of everything you've got to a bucket and bubble it for 24 hours. Are you making an actively aerated compost tea (AACT) to inoculate your soil with a diverse mix office ones? If so, DO IT RIGHT (in other words leave out everything you listed other than worm castings and molasses). Are you looking to feed the microbial life already present in your soil, and, in doing so, feed your plant? THAT is when you break out the various Roots products (if bottled nutrients are your weapon of choice).
Click to expand...
Thanks for clarifying that for me. I use Roots Organic also with very good results. And I aerate it to provide nutrition for microbial life.
I add mycorrhizae to my soil, and teas for feeding. Someone wrote that this was a conflict. I thought fungus and bacteria in the soil were desirable. Now I'm a little confused, since I was sure I was on the right track.
 
SpicySativa

SpicySativa

Well-Known Member
Adding mycorrhiza is a great idea, just not to your teas or mixed in with your soil. The best use is to apply them DIRECTLY to your plants' roots at each transplant (especially early in the plants' lives). Mycorrhizal fungi need direct contact with living plant roots to germinate and grow. They will not multiply in a tea, instead, the dormant propagules will likely just get consumed by the others microbes present in the brew (wasted).
 
SpicySativa

SpicySativa

Well-Known Member
Scroga said:
Ok so primarily for soil and maybe unnecessary for dwc growers?
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These teas can also be applied to leaves as a foliar spray. Alfalfa/kelp tea foliar might be a good addition to a DWC grow. I wouldn't add any of this to your res, especially if it's already loaded with chemical salts.
 
Scroga

Scroga

Well-Known Member
My rez consists of chemical salts and ewc and molases tea... I do get burn on the tips..
 
SpicySativa

SpicySativa

Well-Known Member
Scroga - I think you will have better luck if you pick a team. As it stands, you're using two methods that contradict each other. The salts in your chemical fertilizers are killing off the bacteria that you brew in the tea. Also, keep in mind these bacteria are native to soil. Some of them are motile (able to move about in water), but most would rather stick themselves onto a soil particle using their sticky extra- cellular polysaccharides (think slimy glue).

If you are set on running DWC, I'd say skip the worm castings and molasses altogether. If you want to grow organically, you will get much better results from soil.

You an blame the tip burn on your chemical salts. It is not possible to burn a plant with worm castings or molasses.
 
Scroga

Scroga

Well-Known Member
I can't get over the growth rate with dwc and the quick assimilation of nutrients...last year I encountered "the slime", spent a lot of money on sterilizers ect... Finally gave the tea a shot and presto my garden is back in action..i feel if I drop the ewc, my arch enemy is going to have another crack! So this is where I've ended up..dwc with ewc ...
 
SpicySativa

SpicySativa

Well-Known Member
Well, if it ain't broke...

EWC is some amazing stuff. I guess you're still getting the benefits of the enzymes, acids (amino/humic/fulvic), and low levels of NPK even if the living conditions in your rez are a little on the salty side for microbes.
 
Scroga

Scroga

Well-Known Member
Its not exactly fixed either...it feels is though its teetering on the edge of good health and just waiting for one false move...im not getting new whiteroots bursting forth from the net cup like other growers! The plants have recovered slowly back to green and perky with new leaf growth showing no sign of deficiency..but the roots to my eye are not performing as id wish..
 
kratos015

kratos015

Well-Known Member
A bit of advice concerning the teas, just know that guanos can and will burn your plants if you aren't careful. So if you're using guano in your teas, start at 1/2 dose. Roots is great soil and should be just fine for your girls until half way through flower. You should only need to brew one veg tea throughout all of veg assuming you take care of the microbiology. For flower, you shouldn't need to brew a tea until you start seeing signs of deficiency, around 4+ weeks or so. And again, you shouldn't need to use that tea more than once through all of flower. Again, this is assuming you're using guanos. Good luck!
 
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