You might have been right all along.
Thriving to Struggling Overnight — Need Eyes on My Setup
- Thread starter GrindMind
- Start date
Gemtree
Well-Known Member
Yeah it's one of the reasons I've been on the fence to do auto pots. You have to have a good root system before turning it on and I dont always have the biggest roots when I throw it in flower. When I over water and have too much light going they get like yours
Realistically the only way you can overwater in coco is if you have no perlite and lots of coco peat (coco dust fibers that are the size of coffee grounds). Many of us feed to runoff several times a day in coco. I think medidedicated feeds 12 times a day to runoff.
You spent half a day flushing the plants when they looked like shit. If the problem was overwatering, then they would have gotten worse after the flush instead of better. However, if the autopot was not functioning correctly and was pooling up water in the pots so that the roots were sitting in a pool of water, then that would cause it to be "overwatered."
Was it doing that? If so, then taking them out and doing a flush was getting them out of a pool of water and allowing the roots to get oxygen. Fully saturated coco will allow oxygen to get to the roots but coco sitting in a pool of water will not.
I’m starting to think the issue may have been the light intensity all along. At first, the plants looked like they were recovering, but when I checked again a few hours later, they seemed to go right back to how they were, even though the EC was where it should be. That’s when I started considering the light as a possible factor. I realized my PPFD readings were calibrated for a 3500K light, but I’m actually using a 3000K, and I’m not sure how much of a difference that makes. After lowering the intensity and rechecking, PPFD measured around 650, so it’s possible it was pushing 800 before. I’ve since dialed the light back significantly and it’s now in the 300–400 range. I’ll keep an eye on things to see if that helps.
Here's pics from a few hours ago.
Can you see a little taco'ing happening?
Gemtree
Well-Known Member
They get better when you flush because of the fresh oxygen and then worse again. Also sitting in a pool of water is how auto pots work
Gemtree
Well-Known Member
Did you drain the auto pots and just wait to hand water now? Unless you're top watering several times a day you want to left them dry out before hand watering next. Doesn't take long to bounce back once the light is down and they aren't waterlogged then you can turn the light back up some and get transpiration kickin again. Watching your vpd will help too
Farmer's Hat
Well-Known Member
When I see those colors and patterns on my plants, its always 3 things.
Over watering, ph to acidic, needs more Nitrogen.
I fix it by allowing the pots to dry out to the point where the plants are getting a little wilted, then I feed and water. I am growing in soil, but I think the same principle applies.
I dont know if anyone has recommended raising ph and increasing N dose, but thats what I would do. I would also water less frequently.
Is there a way to set the auto pot on a timer? Track how long the plants can go without watering, then set the auto pot on a timer.
Over watering, ph to acidic, needs more Nitrogen.
I fix it by allowing the pots to dry out to the point where the plants are getting a little wilted, then I feed and water. I am growing in soil, but I think the same principle applies.
I dont know if anyone has recommended raising ph and increasing N dose, but thats what I would do. I would also water less frequently.
Is there a way to set the auto pot on a timer? Track how long the plants can go without watering, then set the auto pot on a timer.
Right now, I’ve removed the capillary mat and have it soaking in a peroxide solution, so I’m just top-feeding for the time being. I’ll stick with that approach until things get sorted out. Once everything is back on track, I’ll reintroduce them to the AutoPot system and, hopefully, with everything dialed in more accurately, this issue won’t come up again.
Coco doesn’t behave like traditional soil, it’s more of a hydroponic medium and really needs to stay consistently moist. At the moment, the pH is right where it should be, and the EC is on the lower side due to the recent flush. My first feed afterward was at 0.7 EC, but I’m thinking of increasing it a bit this time, maybe to around 1.0. I’m starting to think the issue may not have been just a slight salt buildup.. it could also have been that the light intensity was too high, or the VPD was off, causing the plants to over-transpire.
I mean continuously sitting in a pool of stagnant water. Don't autopots fill up like an inch of water in a tray and the plant wicks it up and then it will not release any more water until it falls below a setpoint in the tray that is just below the roots?
Yeah, kind of, but just to clarify, there’s a wicking mat between the plants and that pool of water, so the plants aren’t actually sitting directly in water. It’s the capillary mat that sits in the water and draws the nutrients up to the roots. In theory, the plants should only absorb what they need, so they shouldn’t end up over or under watered at any point.
Gemtree
Well-Known Member
Well either way the directions say don't turn it on until roots are established and that's why
I’m noticing a new symptom showing up in the flower tent, and it started shortly after the flush. They’re currently in week 5 of flower. I decided to flush because the medium was reading between 3.0 and 4.4 EC, which seemed too high at this stage. I’m also starting to think it could be some sort of deficiency, but I’m not entirely sure yet.
Hollatchaboy
Well-Known Member
Looks like calcium deficiency, imo.
7CardBud
Well-Known Member
I've always grown giving my plants an almost full dryback, numerous times to a slight wilt. That never damaged the plants.
From my experience MJ likes a very light mix with frequent dry cycles. How is a media going to supply the high oxygen dry cycle if it's always at full capacity of water?
Just my opinion, but I would think bottom type water systems would work best with organic soil that just needs to wick water up, salt growers need the downward flush and removal of top waterings.
From my experience MJ likes a very light mix with frequent dry cycles. How is a media going to supply the high oxygen dry cycle if it's always at full capacity of water?
Just my opinion, but I would think bottom type water systems would work best with organic soil that just needs to wick water up, salt growers need the downward flush and removal of top waterings.
Hollatchaboy
Well-Known Member
I don't even know that a capillary mat/wick, would absorb all the nutes to begin with, and if it did, at the very least, you'd have to constantly stir the nutrient solution
medidedicated
Well-Known Member
Looks like classic overfed/lockout probably from those ec readings. Thos ewould spell doom in my setup normal dtw coco. Its just a well oiled machine literally. Where as this like stated just sits there. If you need to flush youre probably just going to keep having to do that to keep things in check.
My plants dont like dry back either. Im not sure how its supposed to go as I dont do auto pots and coco. Its the same nutrients and medium tho youre just bottom feeding it.
I just say because that extra piece of info has me saying that. It looks the same in dtw coco overfed and lockout. Problem is theres no way to really regulate that. The auto pots just replace the water when it runs out, but doesnt flush it out which is a problem.
I only know dtw coco but could swear people do flood and drain with coco. Im not dure why uts ok with flood and drain but not this. Maybe you still top water to remove salt build up. I dont get it, I rather just do dtw coco where its simpler.
My numbers are 1.7ec the highest for some strains, the runoff stays within .3ec in range. I find the sweet spot and keep the ec strictly the same. I have a strain right now does 1.2ec. So 3.0ec and higher is hectic. That would cause the visual issues youre having pretty easily.
I dont get why its ok for bottom feed, maybe like said they still flush it out. Dryback is good in flood and drain and ec spikes. Theres crop steering which purposely does all this but more often than not causes issues. Bad isssues too that I rather keep optimal, like why purposely kill off the leafs?
Even with everything optimal I get plants that are just screaming harvest me Im ready to die. Some look like they could go an extra month past all red hairs and still love life. I cant imagine purposely screwing up the optimal settings, I want the healthy plants that look like they can keep going.
So id focus energy there, ask if those things are ok. Theres not a lot of flood growers here theres even a thread asking if anyone even does it anymore which they do. Idk just thinking outloud hoping to help the OP. I dont get why sitting in those conditions are ok but in dtw coco its hell for me if I did that.
My plants dont like dry back either. Im not sure how its supposed to go as I dont do auto pots and coco. Its the same nutrients and medium tho youre just bottom feeding it.
I just say because that extra piece of info has me saying that. It looks the same in dtw coco overfed and lockout. Problem is theres no way to really regulate that. The auto pots just replace the water when it runs out, but doesnt flush it out which is a problem.
I only know dtw coco but could swear people do flood and drain with coco. Im not dure why uts ok with flood and drain but not this. Maybe you still top water to remove salt build up. I dont get it, I rather just do dtw coco where its simpler.
My numbers are 1.7ec the highest for some strains, the runoff stays within .3ec in range. I find the sweet spot and keep the ec strictly the same. I have a strain right now does 1.2ec. So 3.0ec and higher is hectic. That would cause the visual issues youre having pretty easily.
I dont get why its ok for bottom feed, maybe like said they still flush it out. Dryback is good in flood and drain and ec spikes. Theres crop steering which purposely does all this but more often than not causes issues. Bad isssues too that I rather keep optimal, like why purposely kill off the leafs?
Even with everything optimal I get plants that are just screaming harvest me Im ready to die. Some look like they could go an extra month past all red hairs and still love life. I cant imagine purposely screwing up the optimal settings, I want the healthy plants that look like they can keep going.
So id focus energy there, ask if those things are ok. Theres not a lot of flood growers here theres even a thread asking if anyone even does it anymore which they do. Idk just thinking outloud hoping to help the OP. I dont get why sitting in those conditions are ok but in dtw coco its hell for me if I did that.
medidedicated
Well-Known Member
Just tried googling it some and yea still unsure. My latest comparison in dtw coco was a engine. The way the pistons pull fresh air and gas to explode and then pushes the exaust out and repeats. In dtw coco my goal is to keep the pot basically like that.
When its not like that, minerals, bacteria, salts and etc start to accumilate. When that happens its just potential to cause all sorts of issues. My runoff is like .1ec higher and ph still acidic close to whats going in. I never flush because I basically am with each feeding.
When I think about autopots and flood and drain it just messes that up. Maybe rockwool in F&D is better for that idk.
When its not like that, minerals, bacteria, salts and etc start to accumilate. When that happens its just potential to cause all sorts of issues. My runoff is like .1ec higher and ph still acidic close to whats going in. I never flush because I basically am with each feeding.
When I think about autopots and flood and drain it just messes that up. Maybe rockwool in F&D is better for that idk.
7CardBud
Well-Known Member
I like it! I would think F&D would be very similar to DTW in coco. Only difference is the small amount of excess dry salts are dissolved back into the rez. Normal rez changes would keep EC at proper level
7CardBud
Well-Known Member
If the nutes are in full solution they would move with the water. Evaporation could be a factor with a large thin mat, making the EC higher than the rez.
Because the porous coconut fibers, especially mixed with perlite, does not get waterlogged like soil does. Soil requires drybacks so that the roots alternate between getting water and getting oxygen. In coco/perlite, tiny pockets of oxygen are available all the time due to the porous coconut fibers of the substrate.
The thing is lots of us have grown in soil with the "water and wait until the pot is light" wet/dry protocol. It works. It's fine. Then we tried coco and feeding every single day (and/or multiple times per day) and have seen the accelerated growth. The growth difference between high-frequency fertigation coco compared to wet/dry cycle soil is vastly different.
It's not something you need to take pictures of and compare to your previous soil grows and debate/gaslight yourself into whether you see a growth difference; the plant taking off like a rocket ship right in seedling stage and your veg tent looking like an overgrown jungle within a few weeks makes the difference very obvious.
So the question isn't whether high-frequency fertigation coco works for the plant; the question is whether it works for the grower. Lots of people like to water once a week and not have to deal with mixing nutes every day or maintaining a reservoir. That's fine, but you can't argue that feeding everyday in coco doesn't provide a proper air/water ratio for cannabis growth.
Similar threads
