too much or too little? pics. also critique my mix.

Hello, this is my first round using an amended super type soil. Everything has been going great,I have been supplementing with aact using ewc, guano, kelp and mykos. The plants are under thousand watts and the room stays in the mid to upper 70's.

I noticed a little yellowing the other day. I don't want to add anything if it is a little burned, and I don't want to flush if they are in need. The room is on day 33, and the slight yellowing only shows up on one strain, the tallest longest growing one. The two GG4 next to it are perfect in color, with no similar signs. The issues seem to be more on the large fan leaves, but the whole plant looks a little pale. The main problems are only on a few leaves, but I want to get ahead of the situation. I have a feeling it is lacking a combo of mag and nitrogen, especially after reading my discription

I thought I would ask here instead of the infirmary, because I am looking for an organic answer. I have a lineup of humboldt organic nutrients from the last round if I need them. I am also tempted to brew an alfalfa, kelp tea with some epsom salts and aloe.

Here is the soil mix I used, I feel like I went a little light, as I did not want burning with this being my first amended soil run. The batch that is cooking now I switched metro mix to sunshine #4 ( root aphids coming in the metro) I also added 2 cups of alfalfa meal. Feel free to give me some suggestions as I am open for help.

1.5 cu ft ocean forset
1.5 cu ft metro mix 360 (switched to sunshine #4)
4 gal scoops ewc
1/4 bag bio terra plus (using the rest up)

1 1/2 cup fish meal
1 1/2 cup neem cake
5 cups glacial rock dust
2 cups oyster shell meal
1 1/2 cup kelp meal
1/2 cup soft rock phosphate
2 tbsp dolomite lime
2 cups 10-1-1 bat guano
4 tbs go tea special sauce
4 tbs mykos wp
2 tsp fulvic acid (humboldt flavorful) to 1 gallon h20 to moisten soil.

The dirt sat for at lest 5 wks and was tilled twice.


Here are the pics. The first are some of the worst leaves with the obvious being the worst one in the room. One is a closeup , the rust spot makes me think mag. The other two are of the whole plant.

In the whole plant pics you can see they look great, just a little pale.

So, what does everyone think, and what would you recommend doing? Thanks ahead of time, I appreciate the input.

I have to say again it has been a fun study, test run and it feels great knowing everything that goes into your plants! Thank you all for that.
Farmer-B

N cal mag...shes a hungry one

thank you

Could just be root bound (considering that you mentioned it was the biggest plant).

I have a strain that displays that type of yellowing/necrosis when it gets root bound. If I veg her one week less she is fine...if I veg her one week longer she starts turning yellow about mid way through flower.

st0wandgrow said:

Could just be root bound (considering that you mentioned it was the biggest plant).

I have a strain that displays that type of yellowing/necrosis when it gets root bound. If I veg her one week less she is fine...if I veg her one week longer she starts turning yellow about mid way through flower.

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I was going to mention that, it's probably not a coincidence that the biggest plant is yellowing a lil, probably not a micronutrient deficiency, your soil is fairly well amended. But a bigger plant means its using/needs more nutrients, nitrogen probably more than the others
what I would personally do, is topdress with a little EWC and some either rabbit or alpaca manure.
or a topdress with composted comfrey.
or a topdress with EWC and some (a sprinkle) of nitrogen bat guano.
OR, like stow said, it may be rootbound.
Could go with a bunch of bottled nutes (I don't prefer them) squid emulsion, fish emusion, etc.
one thing too, you do have a good amount of additives that create an alkaline soil, as much as I hate to even imply it, but it is possible that your ph may be off for that plant, if it's sensitive.
However I wouldn't recommend doing anything to adjust it, adjusting ph in an amended organic soil can virtually be impossible.
the oyster shell meal and dolomite lime are why I mentioned it, two cups of oyster meal is a lil more than i'd use, but keep in mind I also love crab shell meal as well, so I don't really want too many alkaline producing amendments.
I do love oyster shells for aeration though, its a MUCH slower breakdown, plus the shells look nice in the soil...
your plants look pretty good for a first time make-your-own soil batch, I burned the bejesus out of my plants on my first amended soil.
Course this was yrs ago, when NOBODY had crab meal, neem meal, shrimp meal, etc, etc.

Thanks for the input everyone. I really appreciate the group of dedicated organic growers on this site. It made it much easier to switch to soil amended growing, and I thank you all for that.

The plant is in a 10g smart pot, I have grown the same strain multiple times much bigger with no root bound issues. It is a heavy feeder and can take a lot of abuse. I mentioned the larger ones being effective because I thought it would have to do with the nitrogen that has been used up. It is a longer 70 day strain and it stretches for a little longer than most, one more reason I am thinking it is N. It needed more than it had to stretch so much.

I have never grown without adding cal/mag or nutrients for that matter I have also never grown gg4 before but it looks absolutely perfect in this soil compared to the plant in question. The plant in question is not super yellow, or crispy, or stressed looking, but I can tell she is trying to tell me something. The room has 8 plants with 3 strains, only one being effected.

The oyster shell is actually oyster shell flour. I suppose it is actually more than 2 cups of the meal because of the grain size. How much would you recommend using greasemonkey? Also are you using crab shell meal instead of oyster, or both?

I am not sure if it is root bound, I have grown the same strain much bigger with no issues even in 7 gal smart pots. I am on the fence with ph, since the problem showed up after stretch and beginning flower. Before I switched to ro water I had ph and hardness issues this strain was the least effected of those rounds. I would think the ph burn would happen when the roots first started colonizing the new soil?

Was 2 tbsp of dolomite lime too much, or the combo of both the lime and oyster shell? I also have been ph-ing the water and teas going in, I know you don't need to but it is a hard habit to let go. Water and teas are ph-d to 6.3-6.5

The more I look at the pics I posted I think it is nitrogen and cal mag. I am still open to input for sure. Would the issue be more mag than cal because of the oyster shell? Also I though dolomite lime and oyster shell helped regulate ph?

Would it be best to topdress with ewc and bat guano rather than brew a tea?

Thank you both for your input. Sorry for all the questions. This has been a long fun learning experience, I can't wait to dial it in.

Farmer- B

Here are a few bud pics. The first two pics are of the strain in question The first pic is what the average bud looks like. The second picture is of a bud on the worst looking plant. And the third is of the gg4, which is dark green. I did not see it, but now that I took pictures that were white balanced, the tips of the gg4 look a little burned. Now I am really confused.

farmer-b said:

Thanks for the input everyone. I really appreciate the group of dedicated organic growers on this site. It made it much easier to switch to soil amended growing, and I thank you all for that.

The plant is in a 10g smart pot, I have grown the same strain multiple times much bigger with no root bound issues. It is a heavy feeder and can take a lot of abuse. I mentioned the larger ones being effective because I thought it would have to do with the nitrogen that has been used up. It is a longer 70 day strain and it stretches for a little longer than most, one more reason I am thinking it is N. It needed more than it had to stretch so much.

I have never grown without adding cal/mag or nutrients for that matter I have also never grown gg4 before but it looks absolutely perfect in this soil compared to the plant in question. The plant in question is not super yellow, or crispy, or stressed looking, but I can tell she is trying to tell me something. The room has 8 plants with 3 strains, only one being effected.

The oyster shell is actually oyster shell flour. I suppose it is actually more than 2 cups of the meal because of the grain size. How much would you recommend using greasemonkey? Also are you using crab shell meal instead of oyster, or both?

I am not sure if it is root bound, I have grown the same strain much bigger with no issues even in 7 gal smart pots. I am on the fence with ph, since the problem showed up after stretch and beginning flower. Before I switched to ro water I had ph and hardness issues this strain was the least effected of those rounds. I would think the ph burn would happen when the roots first started colonizing the new soil?

Was 2 tbsp of dolomite lime too much, or the combo of both the lime and oyster shell? I also have been ph-ing the water and teas going in, I know you don't need to but it is a hard habit to let go. Water and teas are ph-d to 6.3-6.5

The more I look at the pics I posted I think it is nitrogen and cal mag. I am still open to input for sure. Would the issue be more mag than cal because of the oyster shell? Also I though dolomite lime and oyster shell helped regulate ph?

Would it be best to topdress with ewc and bat guano rather than brew a tea?

Thank you both for your input. Sorry for all the questions. This has been a long fun learning experience, I can't wait to dial it in.

Farmer- B

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I count the oyster meal as a mineral, and if i'm creating a soil I use a half cup per cubic foot, if i'm re-amending I use a 1/4 cup.
I use the crab meal because of the chitin it contains, and I love the slow release amendments.
for minerals I like to use a mixture of soft rock phosphates, azomite, greensand, and either granite dust or basalt.
for the nutrients I like to use crab meal, kelp meal, neem meal, insect meal (mashed up crickets/mealworms)
I prefer topdresses to nutrient teas especially if you aren't sure if it is indeed a deficiency.
if you have neem and kelp meal make real sure you DO have a micro deficiency before treating that.
Dolomite lime and oyster shell promote a an alkaline soil. the reason many of us like it is because most of us use peat moss as a large percentage of our soil, and peat goes acidic over time.
Usually ph and organics don't go along, the ph changes a LOT with the microbial activity.
If you do think it's a magnesium def you can add a simple black strap molasses tea.
BUT neem has mag in it, if I recall correctly so does kelp meal. Granted it's a small amount but a slow release, and the plan doesn't use a whole lot of magnesium anyways.
I'm not totally certain it's a micro deficiency they are kinda rare in a well amended soil.
A nitrogen def wouldn't surprise me though, I see that all the time on this site, many people forget or are misled by hydrostore BS that plants don't use nitrogen during flowering... and subsequently don't have enough for the plant.
I think the best thing to do is get a topdress with some EWC and rabbit manure in it.

farmer-b said:

Here are a few bud pics. The first two pics are of the strain in question The first pic is what the average bud looks like. The second picture is of a bud on the worst looking plant. And the third is of the gg4, which is dark green. I did not see it, but now that I took pictures that were white balanced, the tips of the gg4 look a little burned. Now I am really confused.View attachment 3304784
View attachment 3304783View attachment 3304785

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ok, I see a lil more here, I do think that you have a nitrogen def, the other plants look very good by the way.
Topdress is what i'd do, if you don't want to, then i'd make a really light nutrient tea.
You said you have bat guano, get some worm castings and sprinkle a pinch of guano in it, mix it up thoroughly and mix it in with your mulch.
If you don't have any mulch, you should get some, mulching is your buddy.
oh and don't use the alfalfa, it's a little far into flowering for that one, good stuff, just not this late

Thanks for the detailed reply. Is there a reason for using rabbit instead of a different poo, and where do I find it.
What type mulch do you recommend? And what do you think of the small tip burn on the gg4, other than that it looks stellar.
I recently top dressed with a compost mixed with ewc, the compost seemed to cake up and turn solid when i watered. I had to break it up, it didn't seem right. I removed it today and I was going to re top with ewc. I will throw some rabbit poo or guano in there. The first topdress of ewc watered in after a while, thats why i cut it with compost.

And thank you for the kind words.

Is there anything that would be good to add to the original soil mix to help with keeping up with the nitrogen intake? I did add the alfalfa to the soil mix for the added N for the next round. I will say that after dealing with root aphids, a nitrogen deficiency sounds wonderful

I'd be tempted to look at your dolomite lime and switch in gypsum instead.

Dolomite is calcium and magnesium. You already have quite a large amount of mag sources in your mix (guano, kelp etc), and this causes problems when your soil wants to access the calcium in dolomite lime - it has to put the magnesium somewhere first.

Gypsum is calcium and sulfur. Sulfur helps break down other soil inputs and is also used by the plant. The calcium is more readily available. It doesn't tighten the soil like dolomite lime.

thanks for the input smokey.

farmer-b said:

Thanks for the detailed reply. Is there a reason for using rabbit instead of a different poo, and where do I find it.
What type mulch do you recommend? And what do you think of the small tip burn on the gg4, other than that it looks stellar.
I recently top dressed with a compost mixed with ewc, the compost seemed to cake up and turn solid when i watered. I had to break it up, it didn't seem right. I removed it today and I was going to re top with ewc. I will throw some rabbit poo or guano in there. The first topdress of ewc watered in after a while, thats why i cut it with compost.

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yes, rabbit manure is wonderful stuff, it's the highest in an even NPK source, also it's crawling with microbial life as well, you can find rabbit manure on craigslist usually, look for rabbits for sale, and well, where there are rabbits...
I like to mash up the manure with the worm castings.
Alpaca manure works well too, it's not quite as high in nutrients though, but neither alpaca nor the rabbit manure needs composting, ready fresh.
And I wouldn't worry about the GG4 it looks good to me