trayvan martin

NLXSK1 said:
You are an idiot. He was not a judge. He didnt sit judgement on trials. He was simply a magistrate.

Why do you people keep completely misunderstanding the facts of the case?
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lol, the guy who just completely bungled the facts is now accusing others of doing the same. classic transference. freud was good.

he was not simply a magistrate, he was a SUPREME COURT MAGISTRATE. once he retired, he moved to the next town over form his son and tried to get him on the force.

ties in law enforcement run deep.
 
desert dude said:
Wiki has Florida's SYG law in its entirety. 776.041, exception 2a covers this episode:

"
776.041 Use of force by aggressor. —The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law
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so, in a mere 30 seconds or so, zimmerman had "exhausted every reasonable means of escape"?

lol, no.

he had 360 degrees worth of escape options available to him. FACT.
 
UB.. I was stating that Zimmerman was the eye witness.

You got nothing. You keep making up facts and assuming shit. This poor guy Zimmerman who was simply performing a community service has had his whole life fucked up by the acts of a petty criminal who decided to turn to assault.

The SYG law serves to protect people like Zimmerman and I support that. If you dont want to end up dead dont assault people.

Zimmerman had wounds reported by the eye-witnesses, written in the police report and treated by medical personnel on site. You want to use some grainy video as proof that Zimmerman was not grievously wounded which does not address the point that he was in fear of his life. He doesnt have to have life threatening wounds to have felt that way.

How you FEEL about the situation does not apply in the law.

IMO the prosecutor is going to stall for as much time as possible and then decline to pursue the case. She will do that because the law is pretty clear here, the evidence is pretty clear here and it would invite lawsuits for false prosecution if they proceeded as stated by other people.

Zimmerman had the RIGHT to defend himself that night and I support his right to do that.
 
desert dude said:
Wiki has Florida's SYG law in its entirety. 776.041, exception 2a covers this episode:

"
776.041 Use of force by aggressor. —The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law
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And since we on this thread have no reliable account of who did what to whom when, the applicability of the lettered contingent clauses is not established. If this does indeed end up in front of a petty jury, I'm certain the applicability of the statute will be argued. It will be interesting to see what the outcome is, considering how spectacularly unpredictable trials can be, but my current bet is that SYG will be found to not apply. Jmo. cn
 
UncleBuck said:
so, in a mere 30 seconds or so, zimmerman had "exhausted every reasonable means of escape"?

lol, no.

he had 360 degrees worth of escape options available to him. FACT.
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He was on his back with Trayvon on top of him, beating him (two eye witnesses gave that account). When you are underneath an assailant and taking a beating, it is pretty reasonable to conclude that your avenues of escape have been exhausted.
 
cannabineer said:
And since we on this thread have no reliable account of who did what to whom when, the applicability of the lettered contingent clauses is not established. If this does indeed end up in front of a petty jury, I'm certain the applicability of the statute will be argued. It will be interesting to see what the outcome is, considering how spectacularly unpredictable trials can be, but my current bet is that SYG will be found to not apply. Jmo. cn
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Zimmerman is the only witness left breathing. Who is going to contradict him?
 
desert dude said:
He was on his back with Trayvon on top of him, beating him (two eye witnesses gave that account). When you are underneath an assailant and taking a beating, it is pretty reasonable to conclude that your avenues of escape have been exhausted.
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only one witness saw that, actually.

when you have a good 50-80 pounds on the guy on top, you can get out. take it from a skinny guy who has been in a scrap or two.

and the only witness who saw martin on top has no idea what the situation was before the trigger was pulled. the two witnesses who saw what happened immediately after saw zimmerman ON TOP of martin, uninjured but worried mere seconds after the trigger was pulled.

360 degrees of escape options. FACT.
 
NLXSK1 said:
UB.. I was stating that Zimmerman was the eye witness.

You got nothing. You keep making up facts and assuming shit. This poor guy Zimmerman who was simply performing a community service has had his whole life fucked up by the acts of a petty criminal who decided to turn to assault.

The SYG law serves to protect people like Zimmerman and I support that. If you dont want to end up dead dont assault people.

Zimmerman had wounds reported by the eye-witnesses, written in the police report and treated by medical personnel on site. You want to use some grainy video as proof that Zimmerman was not grievously wounded which does not address the point that he was in fear of his life. He doesnt have to have life threatening wounds to have felt that way.

How you FEEL about the situation does not apply in the law.

IMO the prosecutor is going to stall for as much time as possible and then decline to pursue the case. She will do that because the law is pretty clear here, the evidence is pretty clear here and it would invite lawsuits for false prosecution if they proceeded as stated by other people.

Zimmerman had the RIGHT to defend himself that night and I support his right to do that.
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lol, you are the one making up facts.

there is NO FACTUAL EVIDENCE that martin assaulted zimmerman.

in fact, given zimmerman's extensive history of assaults, violence, and losing his temper, it is more reasonable to conclude that zimmerman attacked martin. especially since martin has ZERO history of violence whatsoever.

get your facts straight, kiddo. or stick to raking yards and mowing lawns.
 
UncleBuck said:
only one witness saw that, actually.

when you have a good 50-80 pounds on the guy on top, you can get out. take it from a skinny guy who has been in a scrap or two.

and the only witness who saw martin on top has no idea what the situation was before the trigger was pulled. the two witnesses who saw what happened immediately after saw zimmerman ON TOP of martin, uninjured but worried mere seconds after the trigger was pulled.

360 degrees of escape options. FACT.
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The police report listed Trayvon's weight at 160 pounds. Recent news accounts list Zimmerman at 5'9" tall, 170 pounds. Neither of those facts matter one whit, but you might as well be accurate.

There were two eye witness accounts, young Austin Brown and "John". Both said they saw Trayvon on top of Zimmer.
 
desert dude said:
The police report listed Trayvon's weight at 160 pounds. Recent news accounts list Zimmerman at 5'9" tall, 170 pounds. Neither of those facts matter one whit, but you might as well be accurate.

There were two eye witness accounts, young Austin Brown and "John". Both said they saw Trayvon on top of Zimmer.
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young austin brown does not even know what he saw. he says he only saw one person. what he says is worthless.

anonymous "john" has no idea what happened before the trigger was pulled. zimmerman could have had 360 degrees of escape options. given that the two witnesses who saw what happened immediately after the trigger was pulled saw zimmerman on top, it is more reasonable to conclude that zimmerman was fully able to escape.

martin was on the phone with his girlfriend a minute before the police showed up. the scuffle lasted less than one minute.

how the fuck do you exhaust every option of escape in less than a minute? have you ever even been in a fight?
 
776.041 Use of force by aggressor. —The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force."

hmm

Z intially provoked it my running after martin and then instead of backing away after being confronted, assuming martin did start the dialoge between the too, continued to question and provoke Martin

making his claim invalid as he could have walked away as he was asked why are you follwoing me, indicating martin recognition of a possible threat

but Z didnt and instead choose to continue his harrasment of martin

next!
 
oh yeah, that's 170 according to zimmerman's friend.

we all know how credible zimmerman's "friends" are, just ask joe oliver.

LOL!
 
UncleBuck said:
young austin brown does not even know what he saw. he says he only saw one person. what he says is worthless.

anonymous "john" has no idea what happened before the trigger was pulled. zimmerman could have had 360 degrees of escape options. given that the two witnesses who saw what happened immediately after the trigger was pulled saw zimmerman on top, it is more reasonable to conclude that zimmerman was fully able to escape.

martin was on the phone with his girlfriend a minute before the police showed up. the scuffle lasted less than one minute.

how the fuck do you exhaust every option of escape in less than a minute? have you ever even been in a fight?
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There was a news account of a guy in Las Vegas not too long ago who punched another guy in the face. The punchee was dead on the scene. I wonder how long that fight lasted?

Do you have any facts to add to this debate or just the usual uterus discharge?
 
desert dude said:
There was a news account of a guy in Las Vegas not too long ago who punched another guy in the face. The punchee was dead on the scene. I wonder how long that fight lasted?

Do you have any facts to add to this debate or just the usual uterus discharge?
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you're asking me if i have facts after you're bringing up las vegas fights? where is las vegas in relation to sanford, florida? :dunce:

zimmerman didn't look too dead or even close to death in that surveillance video. FACT.

34 minutes later, he did not even show one iota of discomfort. FACT.

zimmerman said this happened on the sidewalk, but every single eyewitness saw it happen on the grass. FACT.

those who saw what happen after the shot said they saw a worried but uninjured zimmerman on top of martin, get up, and walk over to the sidewalk. FACT.

lol @ facts.
 
anything can kill you if the righ situation happens . . so with your logic i can shoot anyone

at anytime anyone could possibly be a threat to your safety . . . .so its not a reasonable excuse
 
Samwell Seed Well said:
776.041 Use of force by aggressor. —The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force."

hmm
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Following someone in order to ask questions is not an aggressive act. Chasing someone with your firearm drawn and shooting would be.

Reasonable means of escape does not mean ANY means of escape. If the person BELIEVES they might be greatly injured or killed, they are authorized to use force. Your idea of great bodily harm might be very different from mine, there is no standard by which one must be committed to prove if your beliefs are strong enough to warrant action.
 
NoDrama said:
Following someone in order to ask questions is not an aggressive act. Chasing someone with your firearm drawn and shooting would be.

Reasonable means of escape does not mean ANY means of escape. If the person BELIEVES they might be greatly injured or killed, they are authorized to use force. Your idea of great bodily harm might be very different from mine, there is no standard by which one must be committed to prove if your beliefs are strong enough to warrant action.
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it is when you have previously coined, and i mean within a short time span seen and condemned someone as suspicious for no other reason then prejudiced and ignorance and bring your fire arm with you

zimmerman is not qualified to gauge who is suspicious or what is right or wrong thats apparent with is record


and how is turning around and leaving not reasonable?

do i need to copy and paste the definition of agreesor or agreesion
 
UncleBuck said:
you're asking me if i have facts after you're bringing up las vegas fights? where is las vegas in relation to sanford, florida? :dunce:

zimmerman didn't look too dead or even close to death in that surveillance video. FACT.

34 minutes later, he did not even show one iota of discomfort. FACT.

zimmerman said this happened on the sidewalk, but every single eyewitness saw it happen on the grass. FACT.

those who saw what happen after the shot said they saw a worried but uninjured zimmerman on top of martin, get up, and walk over to the sidewalk. FACT.

lol @ facts.
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You left out the "fact" that Trayvon laid in the morgue for three days with a "John Doe" tag on his toe in your list of irrelevant facts.
 
Samwell Seed Well said:
it is when you have previosly coined them as suspiscous and bring your fire arm with you
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He brings his firearm when he goes to the grocery store too, does that mean he is going to commit armed robbery? There is a reason a CCW permit is issued you know. Its so you can ALWAYS have a firearm on you AT ALL TIMES! Perhaps you don't understand what a CCW is?

I think you are suspicious, does that make me following you an aggressive act? NO it does not.
 
This is ancient news folks. Being magnified too pit the races against each other and divert attention from the fuckjob they are giving all of us. the old divide and conquer. Dickhead needs to be charged for following Martin, he foregoes his stand your ground rights at that point. It's not the follow and kill you law. But I tuned this bullshit out weeks ago. Pulling on emotional strings to gain a benefit in this case division.
 
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