trim fan leaves or not

sandjsdad said:

You know this subject comes up over and over again.

Why not grow 2 plants, each from the same mother so they' ll effectively be identical, and then defoliate one and not the other...in other words do a side by side comparison and find out for yourself. It's a very forgiving plant and, once you're done, you'll know the answer to your question.

The same advise can be said about any of those questions that are asked over and over again...miracle grow vs? Organic vs? 12/12 from start vs?

This can be a very fun and rewarding hobby...try experimenting a little, you'll learn a ton.

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I have. I speak from 33 years of experience. I'm OCD. I test everything. I tested different cloning gels, lights, hoods, ballasts, bulbs, pots, nutes, level of nutes, ph and not ph, temps, humidity, white film vs Mylar, distance from light, lollipop, defoliate at different times and rates, % Amber and a hundred different others. Also an IQ past genius. I've grown every way you can.

Nie

CaretakerDad said:

Oh really? I will be having a reaction to removing mass from these plants very soon. And your math still sucks, 4 x 30 is not 100.
PS I have degrees in biology and chemistry earned in 2008, I worked for a USDA paneled scientist doing field work for peer reviewed writings, and I have at the age of 58 been growing probably longer than you have been alive. But I'm sure that you and your internet minions know much more than us that have years of actual experience and that crazy book learnin'.

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Nice plants
Your a few years older. I still have 33 years in and was doing indoor back then too. I have no degrees, but lots of learning. An IQ considerably higher then yours. Been MENSA member since I was 14. I do side by side tests and comparisons. I have done same strain and everything else except taking leaves. And done side by side of lollipopping indoor and out in the same pots and all else. Have you. I've done different pots in same strain and all for yield, root formation and structure and dense and quality. Have your?
Done different brand bulbs on same everything else for quality and yield. Did on different strains too. What I say I've personally done side by side tests to know the difference. Not just what some institutioanal teacher taught me..... Practice experience and applied knowledge goes further them a degree. I've had botanist friends argue on the loseing side. He has two masters. Doesn't make him all knowing. I tried in simple terms to explain how and why. You just say I'm wrong and irelavent. Insult my assumed intelligence and talk about a degree you got at 52.
So I've blown $60,000 at the bunny ranch in a year. With my wife.... And other amounts other years. So you did the same with a degree and no real great stories from it... But your smarter then I??
My second brain I carry in a jock strap is smarter then you....
I've taught my way of growing to a few dozen people with varying results. Most were too lazy to grow the way I do. The ones that bent their will to mine and forgot all the books and crap they learned before still doing my grow with their flair and pulling 2.5 to 4.5 pounds per regular light of dried and cured top shelf bud. No tiny nuggets and hash bag nugs.

Cannasutraorganics said:

After 21 to 25 days in bud start removing 30% of the water leafs in one day. Do this every day till all gone. 4 days usually. After you cut the first day the ones left will grow longer stems making them easier to cut. Must have known we wanted that. If you rootball is healthy and dense it will increase bud to compensate.
And for all those that say I'm wrong, whatever... I grow over 2.5 pounds dried and cured bud per 1000 watt light in a 5x5 area. And only 3 ounces of sugar trim per pound of bud and nothing else. You have more trim then bud when done.

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Where are some pictures of your grow? Love to see them.

Ur buds will be bigger if u trim the shit off the lower popcorn branches at the start of flower some ppl say cutting fan leaves off buds ect stresses the plant and makes it grow faster I reakon u trim what needs trimming just keep it healthy and neat no need to go nuts or to leave leaves on that block bud sites I also recommend that about 3 to 4 day before u chop em down remove every leaf u pretty much manicure ur plant before u pull also get the humidity as low as possible last few days will create nicer sticker buds and make the manicuring process easier there is not correct way to do shit if u wanna defoliate do it lol

I am doing pretty good by trimming the fan leaves that block light on buds. Everyday I go to my garden and spend about an hour cutting, bending, strapping....if a fan leaf is between the light and a bud I cut it.

Cannabis is VERY tolerant (forgiving) and will let you know what is too much.

I see positive reaction to my way of growing.

If you are trying to make money then that is one thing but if you are like me and only grow for personal consumption and enjoy having a relationship with nature then that is an entirely different thing.

I grow for health not yield. A quality bud is a quality bud.

Healthy leaves give you quality bud.

Old-School said:

I grow for health not yield. A quality bud is a quality bud.

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churchhaze said:

Healthy leaves give you quality bud.

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That is true.
BUT, that is a limited, simplistic statement.

Light, nutrients, air....all of those things contribute to quality bud. Like I said, I trim as needed for light penetration.

Nothing extreme, I would not consider it "defoliation" in the sense that you will find others doing. Trimming fan leaves is not a sin or unhealthy for the plant in moderation and if it benefits the plant further than the fan leaf would have.

Plants are a food source, they get trimmed naturally in nature by animals and insects...hell they do it themselves as well.

Plants adapt.

When a leaf is no longer being helpful, its nutrients and carbs will be sucked out and the leaf will fall off.

Trimming healthy leaves toward the top of the plant IS a sin. They're supposed to be getting in the way of the light. That's how they produce food.

The top leaves in particular are the most important and definitely shouldn't be cut.

CaretakerDad said:

Oh really? I will be having a reaction to removing mass from these plants very soon. And your math still sucks, 4 x 30 is not 100.
PS I have degrees in biology and chemistry earned in 2008, I worked for a USDA paneled scientist doing field work for peer reviewed writings, and I have at the age of 58 been growing probably longer than you have been alive. But I'm sure that you and your internet minions know much more than us that have years of actual experience and that crazy book learnin'.

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OHHHHHHH SNAP!!! And the crowd goes wild!!! I guess the proof is right there in the pictures. Hot damn CD, thats a nice group of plants you have going there. Congrats

churchhaze said:

When a leaf is no longer being helpful, its nutrients and carbs will be sucked out and the leaf will fall off.

Trimming healthy leaves toward the top of the plant IS a sin. They're supposed to be getting in the way of the light. That's how they produce food.

The top leaves in particular are the most important and definitely shouldn't be cut.

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It is not a sin. That is dumb.

The ones NOT in the way also produce food.

"Definitely shouldn't" is an absolute, NEVER use absolutes.

nick8 said:

i just started flowering(day 4) my lsted liberty haze plant that i vegged for 4 weeks under 100w cfl bulbs and i was wondering if i had to start trimming some fan leaves.

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I had hoped to get some kind of steer on this question so read with interest....suffice to say....I'm no clearer really.
Thanks for posing what I thought was at least an interesting question!

Top pic is in bud since 9-16 when I lollipopped them.
Second pic is side pic of same plants.
Last pic is a little smaller same strain that went in on 9-11 and was defoliated 4 days ago. The top ones will get trimmed in a few more days. I'll keep showing pics and final weights to show how well this works.
Strain is the newest and this is my first time so I'm doing a bunch of different levels of nutes and trimming down at different times. Times is more strain specific and should be done with that in mind.
The strain is Sunset Sherbet. Can't wait till the colors start to show...

deakus said:

I had hoped to get some kind of steer on this question so read with interest....suffice to say....I'm no clearer really.
Thanks for posing what I thought was at least an interesting question!

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It WAS a great question.

Look at it this way:

When you flip to 12/12 a hormonal change starts occurring (not instantly, but quick) and the plant starts dedicating it's energy to flowering.

When you take away fan leaves you are taking away energy production and some stored energy.
The plant is going to compensate by growing new fan leaves.

In veg that is OK...in flower you want as much of the energy production and stored energy to go to making flowers, right?

So the argument on one side is "DO NOT DO IT!!!!!!" - because the thought is to NOT redirect energy to making more fan leaves.

MY position is this - the plant is going to keep making flowers regardless if you take a few leaves here and there to ensure light penetration to the flowers.
Flowers need light as well as the leaves...and THERE ARE LEAVES IN THE FLOWERS! Which means that the leaves in the flowers that are now getting more light are also making energy...and I am letting them have more light.

My experience has been that the flowers with more light get bigger and more dense.

Hope that helps.

Old-School said:

It WAS a great question.

Look at it this way:

When you flip to 12/12 a hormonal change starts occurring (not instantly, but quick) and the plant starts dedicating it's energy to flowering.

When you take away fan leaves you are taking away energy production and some stored energy.
The plant is going to compensate by growing new fan leaves.

In veg that is OK...in flower you want as much of the energy production and stored energy to go to making flowers, right?

So the argument on one side is "DO NOT DO IT!!!!!!" - because the thought is to NOT redirect energy to making more fan leaves.

MY position is this - the plant is going to keep making flowers regardless if you take a few leaves here and there to ensure light penetration to the flowers.
Flowers need light as well as the leaves...and THERE ARE LEAVES IN THE FLOWERS! Which means that the leaves in the flowers that are now getting more light are also making energy...and I am letting them have more light.

My experience has been that the flowers with more light get bigger and more dense.

Hope that helps.

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Defo does,
Thanx Old School! And Canna. Having some nice an easy facts/experiences is always helpful. I must say that there is a staggering amount of knowledge which I see on here,but I think some people who have this,don't have the same level of ability in conveying this to simpletons like myself!

^^^ Cool deal.

The problem with RIU sometimes is that it turns into a cock size contest.

Growing cannabis is easy.
People make it hard.

Keep it simple and you will be successful.

Old-School said:

^^^ Cool deal.

The problem with RIU sometimes is that it turns into a cock size contest.

Growing cannabis is easy.
People make it hard.

Keep it simple and you will be successful.

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Sig worthy,plus rep

This girls are four weeks into 12/12 and were heavily defoliated at day 10 and 20..
I think they are doing just fine
So in my opinion defoliation will not hurt your plant just make it grow the way you want..

Dexter McPherson said:

View attachment 3271919 View attachment 3271920 View attachment 3271922 View attachment 3271923 This girls are four weeks into 12/12 and were heavily defoliated at day 10 and 20..
I think they are doing just fine
So in my opinion defoliation will not hurt your plant just make it grow the way you want..

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thanks for your OPINION.