True HP Aero For 2011

R

r0m30

Active Member
Trichy Bastard said:
I hear you there... I think for simplicity, I'll test the Pro-tekt, and also without. If I notice any benefit or negatives being either attributed to the silica or extra P I will post. I don't know how many decades a pound of dried Si02 would last me... hehehe Plus, wouldn't want my flowers to smell like sausages- hahahhaa. ( I know, it's probably used as a preservative similar to sulphur dioxide or nitrates).
EDIT: I clicked the link, guess it's an anti caking compound. Do we know if once it's bonded to the oxygen that it's still available to the plants? Perhaps there's a reason they use other elements to mix with it for plant uses... It's still not pure silicon, yet I agree oxygen sounds like less of a worry in terms of skewing the nute ratios. But I'm not exactly a chemist.
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Sure, I'd use it too if I already had it. I wasn't suggesting that you not use it. I was researching it and then trying to figure out an alternative that didn't have the huge markups of the hydro shop products. Similar to what Atomizer is doing with the Canna Flores.
I chose SiO2 because it is the same silicon source used in Pro-tekt (Botinacare silica blast is derived from Sodium Silicate and Potassium Silicate). If you look on the label Pro-tekt is 7.8% SiO2 and 3.7% K2O.
I know a pound is a lot, but the shipping could end up being more than the product for smaller quantities, now that I know it is used as a spice I'll keep an eye out at the grocery stores.

Trichy Bastard said:
Today the test subject looks pretty wilted in the leaves. There is some new leaf growth, but the old leaves look like they might all die off. I haven't noticed any new root growth. There are a few variables, heat being my biggest worry. I think the roots are pretty wet with the new cycle, matter of fact I burned through 5 gallons of nute water in 15 hours for a single plant. The stems seem firm, so perhaps I should have dialed the mist down. I think I probably hurt the roots too much by taking them from soil, but as mentioned, the pod reaches about 98 degrees each day, and that sounds like the biggest issue.
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Wow that's a lot of water for a single plant. Finally a plus for smaller chambers ... :mrgreen: even though I'm working on a design for a larger one (~25 Gal)

98 degrees, sounds like you need something to reflect back the sunlight. I wonder if it would cool down once it's under the canopy.
 
Trichy Bastard

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
hammer21 said:
TB you may have to think about your chiller or adding some ice to the bottom of the pod. white paint?
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yes, some insulation and reflectix first hopefully will do the trick. Trying to avoid undoing all the electric aero saves. Also, just trying to get an idea of what the plants will tolerate so I have a maximum threshold to keep in mind for the future. Like I said- I expect this test subject to be a total sacrafice. But ya know- you always learn more from failures than successes ;)
 
Trichy Bastard

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
r0m30 said:
Sure, I'd use it too if I already had it. I wasn't suggesting that you not use it. I was researching it and then trying to figure out an alternative that didn't have the huge markups of the hydro shop products. Similar to what Atomizer is doing with the Canna Flores.
I chose SiO2 because it is the same silicon source used in Pro-tekt (Botinacare silica blast is derived from Sodium Silicate and Potassium Silicate). If you look on the label Pro-tekt is 7.8% SiO2 and 3.7% K2O.
I know a pound is a lot, but the shipping could end up being more than the product for smaller quantities, now that I know it is used as a spice I'll keep an eye out at the grocery stores.


Wow that's a lot of water for a single plant. Finally a plus for smaller chambers ... :mrgreen: even though I'm working on a design for a larger one (~25 Gal)

98 degrees, sounds like you need something to reflect back the sunlight. I wonder if it would cool down once it's under the canopy.
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Makes sense on the si02. For the size chambers we have, and the low levels of nutes for hpa, I think it's not worth it to me to do anything other than buying canna and pro-tekt. In the future I'm sure other projects will include mixing my own stuff, but one thing at a time for now. Gotta figure out what works for me before I buy a bulk of powdered elements ;)

I am quite sure once the canopy fills over, it will be alot cooler. The issue is the plastic is grey-ish, and it gets hot like the dash of a car. The pod is 15 degrees hotter than the ambient air and then the mist pulls down alot of heat, but when I open the lid, its like hot steamy dragon's breath hits my face... lol
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
In response to what TB said "The pod is 15 degrees hotter than the ambient air and then the mist pulls down alot of heat, but when I open the lid, its like hot steamy dragon's breath hits my face... lol"

Yep. This is what killed my last 2 attempts. The vent helped as did heavy foil, as did blowing a fan across the vent: also moving my light up higher than I wanted. Most of this was because of using the Rubbermaid lid. I have considered getting some thick insulation, but worry about chemical toxicity
 
hammer21

hammer21

Well-Known Member
My next build will be having pods below the floor and running a air conditioner there not on the plants. Keeping the roots cool and damp should be our main goal 65-70 degrees the plant will grow even if air temps reach 100+ on the leaves.
 
Trichy Bastard

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
Yeah, there are a few ways to tackle this. Think insulating the lid is most important. I believe with the wind and the way my empty netcups sit, its sort of like having a breather tube (perhaps not enough though). The lid gets so hot in the sun, the plastic is uncomfortable to touch, and gets very "rubbery" like it's half melting... gees. It's just tough to decide to use foil or reflectix on the lid, cuz it'll be such an eyesore. It may be worth trying to use it on the underside of the lid- but probably won't work as well.

As mentioned before- I could always focus on using my chiller to cool the nutes in the res, and insulate the accumulator, or even run a cooling conduit alongside the mist lines around the chamber. I think I need to insulate the lid first however, because it is obviously conducting alot of heat. Perhaps doing that and using some shade cloth would be enough until the canopy kicks in.
 
Mike Young

Mike Young

Well-Known Member
Reflectix outside would do you well. I can't see it having any effect on the inside. If the shiny factor is too much, maybe start by painting the lid white. Probably get ya a couple of degrees. I think atomizers chiller using mains & a solenoid sounds pretty cost effective. I really don't think in your situation, colder nutes will help much. You can get a mini fridge pretty cheap. Rip it apart & retro-fit that bitch to your chamber.
 
F

foresakenlion

Active Member
Bad idea, sodium is salt, counts towards your TDS/EC, raising your EC while providing no benefit to the plant isn't going to enhance any growth rates, learned this one my self, if you insist on using Sodium based Silica additives, please make sure you add your total nutrient dose to a test pre-batch of nutrient, then the sodium silicate, monitor your EC, normally you would add your silica first, then your nutrients, but if you do it this way the first time you won't get an idea of how much it effects your TDS/EC

TB to be honest sir your root chamber is simply too hot, like others have said, insulating it from the outside may provide some benefit if the outside is hotter, I would suggest using an ultrasonic mister on a timer, in its own reservoir compartment, dispensing the dry fog around the chamber. If you could find some water proof DC based fans, which should be available for water cooling PC equipment, you can mount those and this would give you your circulation of the mist you need, if this has the same effect as a swamp cooler it should give you a decrease of between 10-15 degrees relative to ambient, though it's based thoroughly on humidity and therefore the effect can be stunted or in a place like mine with high natural humidity, the effect is virtually nill, and therefore useless for cooling.

Better luck to you.

TB went back read your post about your connection, so let me get this straight... your accumulator has a FEMALE port coming out of it? and it's 3/8 and Female? Crazy, the ones I'm looking at for Thermal Expansion are all 3/4 Male.... If you have a 3/8 M why not just go to a 3/8 x 1/4 Elbow Shut Off w/ a 3/8 M x 3/8 M Nipple? Just wondering, wow you got lucky finding that crazy sized output on the tank....
 
A

aerojunkie

Well-Known Member
While on the subject of Silica, Here is some info Fatman sent me a while back. JFYI.

Interesting data: The diversity of non-glandular and glandular hairs of Cannabis sativa L. (marijuana) are described by scanning electron microscopy. The non-glandular hairs are of two major types, as distinguished by size differences and locations, and all of them are highly silicified. The presence of silica as well as cystoliths of calcium carbonate help in the identification of marijuana even in its ash residues.

Resin glands are not visible until flowers form. The more obvious covering of white hairs seen on stems, petioles, and leaves are not resin glands. They are cystolith hairs of carbonate and silicate which are common to many plants. These sharp-pointed hairs afford the plant some protection from insects and make it less palatable to larger, plant-eating animals.
 
A

aerojunkie

Well-Known Member
I contacted Dyna-gro and they recommend adding their pro-teckt at a rate of 1000-1500 ppm or 2-4 ml/gal? Does anyone have the resulting PH swing of this recommended amount? Im currently using 1ml type N sodium silicate/gal which increases my PPM by 50 but shoots my PH up to 8.9. 1500 PPM seems unnecessarily high. I cant imagine what effects there are on the PH. Numbers aren't adding up to me and Im questioning whether or not the person on the phone knew what she was talking about... Does anyone know the recommended TDS of Si alone, less Na or K?
 
Trichy Bastard

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
aerojunkie said:
I contacted Dyna-gro and they recommend adding their pro-teckt at a rate of 1000-1500 ppm or 2-4 ml/gal? Does anyone have the resulting PH swing of this recommended amount? Im currently using 1ml type N sodium silicate/gal which increases my PPM by 50 but shoots my PH up to 8.9. 1500 PPM seems unnecessarily high. I cant imagine what effects there are on the PH. Numbers aren't adding up to me and Im questioning whether or not the person on the phone knew what she was talking about... Does anyone know the recommended TDS of Si alone, less Na or K?
Click to expand...

Not sure of the tds, but I know that adding a near recommended amount of silica does not affect ec very much at all... it might give you 50-100 ppm max... Right now I'm eyeballing 2 -3 dropperfulls per gallon, and it makes my ppm 20 on the .7 scale- but I'm using silica blast and it's different than pro-tekt. I'd prefer to use the pro-tekt, but no sense in throwing away this already paid for bottle. If they say it really will raise ppm that high I would second guess the dyna grow silica, but I am sure that was some sort of mistake, they probably meant if you were mixing a 1500ppm target with their nutes, that's how much silica you'd want to add? It's only my guess. But Homebrewer uses 5ml/gal pro-tekt, and never runs over 1400ppm total or so in flower with all his flower formula and magpro, so obviously I'd think that was wrong on their part when they stated that.
 
Trichy Bastard

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
foresakenlion said:
Bad idea, sodium is salt, counts towards your TDS/EC, raising your EC while providing no benefit to the plant isn't going to enhance any growth rates, learned this one my self, if you insist on using Sodium based Silica additives, please make sure you add your total nutrient dose to a test pre-batch of nutrient, then the sodium silicate, monitor your EC, normally you would add your silica first, then your nutrients, but if you do it this way the first time you won't get an idea of how much it effects your TDS/EC

TB to be honest sir your root chamber is simply too hot, like others have said, insulating it from the outside may provide some benefit if the outside is hotter, I would suggest using an ultrasonic mister on a timer, in its own reservoir compartment, dispensing the dry fog around the chamber. If you could find some water proof DC based fans, which should be available for water cooling PC equipment, you can mount those and this would give you your circulation of the mist you need, if this has the same effect as a swamp cooler it should give you a decrease of between 10-15 degrees relative to ambient, though it's based thoroughly on humidity and therefore the effect can be stunted or in a place like mine with high natural humidity, the effect is virtually nill, and therefore useless for cooling.

Better luck to you.

TB went back read your post about your connection, so let me get this straight... your accumulator has a FEMALE port coming out of it? and it's 3/8 and Female? Crazy, the ones I'm looking at for Thermal Expansion are all 3/4 Male.... If you have a 3/8 M why not just go to a 3/8 x 1/4 Elbow Shut Off w/ a 3/8 M x 3/8 M Nipple? Just wondering, wow you got lucky finding that crazy sized output on the tank....
Click to expand...
An ultrasonic mister isn't going to provide any more evaporative cooling than the misters do (at least not a noticeable amount). In case you have never used one, they generate a fair amount of heat themselves, so I cannot see the light on that one unless I'm missing something here.

Did I say it has a female fiting coming out if it? Cuz it's male... It does however already have an elbow built in (vertical one). I don't really need to think about it anymore myself, cuz mine is working just fine the way I mentioned it and took pics of previously for you. Do you remember? Go back and take a look. I believe I used a 3/4 to 1/2 pvc adaptor, and then used a 1/2 threaded male to 1/2 JB rigid tube, and then a JG 1/2 to 1/4' adaptor. I think your spending too much time worrying about this single transition. Once you order the accum tank, it will be obvious how to hook it up, I promise.

So far the test plant lost most it's leaves, but it has lots of tiny new growth leaves, and it seems the roots are slowly starting to sprout new growth themselves. Don't know how much better it will get, or if I could ever get hairs at these temps, but the plant is not dying so far... :) The weirdest part is it's stating to show sex and it's only 8 inches tall... Damn 12/12 sunlight hahahaha....
 
konagirl420

konagirl420

Well-Known Member
Gotta love the sunlight :) Hehehe you all are so smart to be able to do all this, yay the plant has new growth:) Go Tb!!!!!!!!!!
 
Trichy Bastard

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
hahha.. well milk's $8.50/gallon here if that makes ya feel better... There are some drawbacks to being 3k miles away from the nearest anything.. But I'll take the issues any day in stride with the positives... ;)
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
$8.50?! Hopefully that deters people from buying it, unless it is RAW milk.

Somehow I thought you were in Florida, sounds like Hawaii
 
JACQO

JACQO

Well-Known Member
hope evry1s setups coming on better than mine was raided sunday just gone :( all my bbys dead :( but yeah good luck evry 1 ..... my lil bbys dead i cant belive it :( feel like crying but at same time glade only got a caution under missuse act 1971 controlled drug class B.... pissed me off such a joke..... but yeah good luck evry1 i will let you now if i start again lol just gota move them fuckas ay keepin me down peace out evry1 for now lmfao...
 
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