Unemployment - data and reporting

7xstall

7xstall

Well-Known Member
Dank, here's what i found while trying to figure out the unemployment numbers thing. looked for that thread where it came up but couldn't find it so posted here.



How the Government Measures Unemployment




The Unemployment Rate Myth
Posted by: Jon Henke on Thursday, May 18, 2006

Yesterday, for about the umpteenth time, I came across a common misconception about how the Unemployment Rate [UR] is calculated, so let's put this to rest. The misconception is that the unemployment rate is calculated using unemployment benefits, and when unemployment benefits expire — usually after 6 months — the person, though still unemployed, is no longer counted as part of the unemployment rate.

This is, of course, wrong.

Amusingly, when I contradicted the fellow laboring under this delusion, he responded that he was a "former president of [some State Employer's organization]" and a "close friend of [some high muckety-muck on some other business council]", so, he wrote, he spoke from "EXTREMELY knowledgable (sic) position. This is not opinion or hearsay - it IS fact."

Yeah, well, the Bureau of Labor Statistics — the organization that actually puts together the official Unemployment Rate — has a somewhat different version of the facts. In reality, the Unemployment rate is not calculated from unemployment benefits, but from the Current Population Survey. Each month, they contact about 60,000 households and if they "do not have a job, have actively looked for work in the prior 4 weeks, and are currently available for work", they are counted as unemployed.

In fact, the BLS specifically addresses this misunderstanding. From the BLS Website:
Where do the statistics come from?

Some people think that to get these figures on unemployment the Government uses the number of persons filing claims for unemployment insurance (UI) benefits under State or Federal Government programs. But some people are still jobless when their benefits run out, and many more are not eligible at all or delay or never apply for benefits. So, quite clearly, UI information cannot be used as a source for complete information on the number of unemployed.​
Unemployment insurance (i.e., state and federal unemployment benefits) statistics are reported by some areas, but "they are not used to measure total unemployment". The complete methodology is outlined here.

So, that's all cleared up. Please don't let your friends make that mistake again. It really annoys me.

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the above is from: http://www.qando.net/ - The Unemployment Rate Myth
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
Funny, in 50 years in the labor market I never got a phone call even when I was collecting un-employment. And those people that have given up and arent actively looking for a job because there are none, they aren't counted as un-employed. So I stand by my guess of 10-15% actually not employed for whatever circumstance. When the major supplier of work in a community folds and moves their operation overseas, it creates a wave of unemployed, not only the direct work force, but ancillary jobs as well. After 6-9 months those in the community that haven't found work or gone to the employment office to look or contact someone in the government for work are classified as not in the work force, But they are still unemployed. this is a system used to favor the governments statistics and is Bogus as those people are still part of the unemployed. In fact 10-15% might be a very low figure. Corporations in their greed for the bottom line have been decimating the American workforce for years. See if you can name 10 new large corporate work sites employing a few hundred workers opened in the last ten years. I could list hundreds that have folded.
 
7xstall

7xstall

Well-Known Member
the entrepreneur has been steadily gaining ground; replacing bulky, over regulated corps. these smaller, more efficient (read: less gvnmnt involved) businesses also tend to pay employees better while providing the same level of health care benefits. great article in Dec. 2006 Entrepreneur. in capitolism it seems that there is a certain type of composting always going on.

60,000 is a large chunk of survey leverage, it couldn't be off by that large of a factor.
 
ViRedd

ViRedd

New Member
in capitalism it seems that there is a certain type of composting always going on.

And that's the point so often missed by fans of Big Government. Private markets cannot survive without that "composting." Government doesn't turn over the dead wood, so composting doesn't take place ... the wood just survives in an inefficient way.
Vi


 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
ViRedd said:
in capitalism it seems that there is a certain type of composting always going on.

And that's the point so often missed by fans of Big Government. Private markets cannot survive without that "composting." Government doesn't turn over the dead wood, so composting doesn't take place ... the wood just survives in an inefficient way.
Vi
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Composting " putting dead objects on a heap (Pile) to let them rot." Seems like private enterprize has been doing a lot of that lately, Plant closings, layoffs, relocating to offshore, Yeah a lot of composting going on!
 
7xstall

7xstall

Well-Known Member
better to let it rot and turn into fertile ground than to patch it up and let it leech our resources for generations.


look at CSX and R.R.s in general, what a freakin nightmare. bunch of over paid union guys doing an almost useless job on our tax dollar just so the biz didn't die off and get made into something good... unless you've seen it first hand you wouldn't believe the waste that goes on there!

if gvnmnt would do some composting our economy would be amazingly bolstered.
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
bunch of over paid union guys Why are workers overpaid when CEOs get Multi million dollar salaries. Overpaid union guys. Union workers are the only workers that earn a living wage with medical benefits and retirement. Maybe some white collar workers (Geeks) get those bennies, but the majority are exploited for capital gain.
 
7xstall

7xstall

Well-Known Member
they are overpaid because the work they do is worth almost nothing and they can't be fired for screwing up over and over.

also, they are not the only workers that get med benefits and retirement, plenty of blue collar, regular workers get that.

yes, greedy CEOs are bad and they do damage the economy. it's sad how many of them don't think of the people who make them successful but there is a growing trend of giving companywide rewards for growth (Goldman Sachs). greedy unions are bad also...they're foaming at the mouth trying to force their way into walmart, where do you think all the bad press comes from?
 
battosai

battosai

Well-Known Member
7xstall said:
they are overpaid because the work they do is worth almost nothing and they can't be fired for screwing up over and over.

also, they are not the only workers that get med benefits and retirement, plenty of blue collar, regular workers get that.

yes, greedy CEOs are bad and they do damage the economy. it's sad how many of them don't think of the people who make them successful but there is a growing trend of giving companywide rewards for growth (Goldman Sachs). greedy unions are bad also...they're foaming at the mouth trying to force their way into walmart, where do you think all the bad press comes from?
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my dad worked years for a furniture business and was 1 year from retiring. he worked many long hours and days, always first one to go in last one to leave. rarely missed work. 1 sometimes 2 days off a week.

they decided to liquidate the company. all that money was distributed among a couple people and everyone else was left without retirement.

tell me this. your 60+ years old and your employer (company) just fucked everyone. where does a person like that go? start over?
 
7xstall

7xstall

Well-Known Member
terrible situation. i'm not a lawyer but this is where one would be put to good use.

without an employment contract he has to see the couple people who took the money. push them to come up with a solution for the problem; working at another of their companies for 1 year, early retirement.

initially i would do a lot of aggressive listening then i would look at employment law in my state. here, in one of the most employer friendly states in the union, employees close to retirement are entitled to options when companies are equitably dissolved. retirement money/funds are not part of the company's equitable assets.
 
Dankdude

Dankdude

Well-Known Member
it happens all the time battosai, Sad to say. But I would say that Most companies had a social conscience before the days of Reagan.
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
battosai said:
my dad worked years for a furniture business and was 1 year from retiring. he worked many long hours and days, always first one to go in last one to leave. rarely missed work. 1 sometimes 2 days off a week.

they decided to liquidate the company. all that money was distributed among a couple people and everyone else was left without retirement.

tell me this. your 60+ years old and your employer (company) just fucked everyone. where does a person like that go? start over?
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Exactly, and your dad is not alone. Corporations and some small companies have no conscience when it comes to the workers. That is why unions are so important. they force companies to look out for their employees. There are not many jobs for 60 year olds period as no-one wants to hire someone that can retire in 2-5 years, especially if they have no skills in their respective areas. Can your Dad go to another furniture store and get work? If he can find work for a couple a years, he can retire, but this is the kind of heartless, ruthless business operators we have today. I say to everyone that works a blue collar Job, Unionize. The employer has a contract they can't get out of untill re-negotiation time, generally every 2 years and then the union fights for your rights. Sometimes if the company is having a rough time staying afloat, the union will even concede some points to the company, all contracts have to be ratified by the workers. We gave our company back 2.00 an hr. because they were having dificulties. this gave them the impetus to expand and pull out of a situation, we got the money back next contract!
 
battosai

battosai

Well-Known Member
medicineman said:
Exactly, and your dad is not alone. Corporations and some small companies have no conscience when it comes to the workers. That is why unions are so important. they force companies to look out for their employees. There are not many jobs for 60 year olds period as no-one wants to hire someone that can retire in 2-5 years, especially if they have no skills in their respective areas. Can your Dad go to another furniture store and get work? If he can find work for a couple a years, he can retire, but this is the kind of heartless, ruthless business operators we have today. I say to everyone that works a blue collar Job, Unionize. The employer has a contract they can't get out of untill re-negotiation time, generally every 2 years and then the union fights for your rights. Sometimes if the company is having a rough time staying afloat, the union will even concede some points to the company, all contracts have to be ratified by the workers. We gave our company back 2.00 an hr. because they were having dificulties. this gave them the impetus to expand and pull out of a situation, we got the money back next contract!
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luckily for him, those who liquidated his business thought he was good as what he did, so they hired him as a liquidator. shot him up to like 4 times what he was making. unfortunately for him, that's not the type of strain an older guy can take, 90-120 days straight, 12 hours days, no days off chunks. but he was able to for a few years.so god rest his soul, bc he's worth his weight in gold
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
7xstall said:
sweet.

and med, my faith in negotiating man to man wins over union.
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Probably because you never worked Union. I'll ,agreee there are some worthless unions (Company type) but a real union like Teamsters will fight for your rights tooth and nail. I belonged to four unions in my life, Laborers, Carpenters, Electricians, and finally, Teamsters. Teamsters were the most prolific. They actually followed up on grievances and such. If a supervisor started to give you some crap you could say wait, I want my representative here to hear this, this usually mellowed them out, I personally never had to use the grievance process, although, I threatened to file on a supervisor when he gave a junior employee (read suckass) an air conditioned truck ahead of me (I had been waiting for 2 years and this new guy had been there 2 months) after some serious conversation, he gave me the truck, thank you very much.In Vegas where it reaches 120 in the shade and no shade, AC is important| I guess if your a Manager, you would inherantly dislike unions, as they would make you swallow your gigantic ego once in a while. In my 8 years in the teamsters, I felt like I belonged. there are legitimate reasons to be fired,, Late to work,, fuckups on the job IE, rolling a truck or damaging private or any property, failing a drug test, not showing up without calling in, and breaking company rules. You can still be fired, I saw about 30 guys get fired in my 8 years. So the union doesn't protect Idiots contrary to your opinion. BTW, My union dues were 25.00 a month, a little over an hours pay, less if you figured in benefits. Here's a clue as to the companies profit margin, Concrete went for 65.00 a yard, a truck hauled 10 yards, 50 sacks of concrete @ 2-3 bucks a sack 150.00 ten yards of sand and gravel, maybe 100.00, and labor and plant expenses. Figuring plant expenses @ 200.00 per truck, load that still left 200.00 profit per truck, a driver could do a load in about a 2 hr turn around, figure 50 bucks, that still left 150.00 per truck load. there were 150 trucks in our yard, average loads were between 3-4 per day, figure 3, that still leaves $67,500.00 per day per plant profit. I realize it takes a huge plant investment to run a concrete business, but there is nothing but profit in it. Next lifetime, I'm coming back as a concrete company owner!!
 
7xstall

7xstall

Well-Known Member
i saw the teamsters really pull for a guy once first hand. he still got fired but with three wrecks in one year i hope so. they had all these steps to firing him. he cried his way up to the top level and they finally fired him there. wasted all kinds of time on it, imo. they were all nice to his face and let their dues pay for the process to play out but they all think the guy's a freakin moron.

i just think it's best to deal directly with people. i don't want a middle man between me and the boss, never have, never will.
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
7xstall said:
i saw the teamsters really pull for a guy once first hand. he still got fired but with three wrecks in one year i hope so. they had all these steps to firing him. he cried his way up to the top level and they finally fired him there. wasted all kinds of time on it, imo. they were all nice to his face and let their dues pay for the process to play out but they all think the guy's a freakin moron.

i just think it's best to deal directly with people. i don't want a middle man between me and the boss, never have, never will.
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Sounds like the guy was an idiot and should have been fired. He wouldn't have gotten 2 more chances at my Place, if you wrecked a truck, it was over. You still have to deal with bosses on a daily basis, it's just the fear factor is not as great. When someone has godlike powers over your livelyhood, and you've got bills and a family to support, it gets a little scary, and Butt kissing has never been one of my strong suites!
 
ViRedd

ViRedd

New Member
"When someone has godlike powers over your livelyhood, and you've got bills and a family to support, it gets a little scary..."

That's why one should develope skills that don't require supervision. Nothing like fending for yourself in the open marketplace.

Personally, I think unions are antiquated. Years ... and years ago, I worked for a utility company and was invited to a union meeting. With seniority, we could get up to six weeks, fully paid sick leave. The entire thrust of the meeting was all about getting more sick leave. I walked out.

I've always followed my mother's advise: Make yourself so valuable to your employer that you will be the very last person to be laid off. Work for the company as if it were your own. Do more work than you're being paid for. Your chief responsibility on the job is to produce a profit for the owner of the company so the doors stay open.

Med ... do you think my mother was telling the truth?

Vi
 
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