Unexpected results from diy nutes, does anybody else use diy nutes and what was your results.

Put out 4 ww clones in coco coir, and started a comparison grow using fox farms, hydro gro and diy nutes "fatmans coco coir recipe" on the other two..The diy nutes have been doing AWESOME..Noticed a difference about a week into the grow, now the diy nute plants are shooting up way past the commercial brands. I also noticed the leaves are a perfect uniformed green unlike the other store bought brands which sometimes leaves a dark green stain on the tips of the leafs. I also noticed the central stem is a lot bigger with the diy nutes. Has anybody else noticed results like this? Also with the diy nutes i dont have to add calmag or adjust the ph with fatmans recipe, it is always a perfect 5.8-6.0 saving big money on bs. Do the commercial brands use cheap ingredients or something?

What do your DIY nutes consist of?

RockinDaGanja said:

What do your DIY nutes consist of?

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All this stuff cost about a $100 bucks it wasnt cheap, however it will last years if not decades. Still a WAY WAY better deal compared to the commercial crap ive been using. One gallon of that crap cost $60. You will need two different types of scales, one to measure the bulk stuff and a smaller scale to measure micronutes especially ammonium molybdate, just a few sprinkles is all it took. You must also separate the concentrated solutions macro from the micro nutes, lable one bottle a and the other bottle b. I added one concentrate to another without diluting to see what would happen and after a day and it formed crystals on the bottom of the jar. So keep them separate until you mix them. Look up Fatmans coco coir recipe for more details. I used two 10ml syringes when i needed to mix them together before feeding. BTW.. i used the same ppm meter and ppm levels as i did with the commercial brands. Just didnt need to add all that other ph and calmag crap because there is plenty of micronutes in fatmans recipe and the ph is already set at 5.8 after i mixed. Havent tested runoff to see if ph is stable, might do that tomorrow. One thing to note, the ph is stable after i used city water..my ph with city water is 7.8 so if you use rain water or distilled you might need to raise the ph a few points.

Calcium Nitrate---main ingredient for nitrate, secondary is potassium nitrate.
Potassium Nitrate--ebay
Iron Chelate--ONLY USE DTPA chelated iron...ebay
MonoPotassium Phosphate--ebay
Magnesium Sulfate--also bought at lowes, sells under the name "epson salt"
Manganese Sulfate---ebay
Boric Acid--bought this stuff at lowes, sell it as roach killer
Zinc Sulfate--ebay
Copper Sulfate--ebay
Ammonium Molybdate--amazon? Cant remember

RockinDaGanja said:

What do your DIY nutes consist of?

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The next comparison/experiment will be with hdro, however i can only do two plants at a time. Will post the results with pics on a "tor" account. Hopefully it is not a fluke with this current grow but i doubt it. Very impressed with the homemade stuff so far, cant believe the difference, hoping flower time will be the same. Bought all of the chems on ebay except one, cant remember but i think the ammonium molybdate was from amazon..dont quote me on that. The diy grow is growing so fast im having to raise the other plants to keep light even throughout the canopy. The stems on the diy grow are the most impressive i have ever seen, starting to look like trunks.

Are you using any software like HydroBuddy?

RockinDaGanja said:

Are you using any software like HydroBuddy?

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No, just using fatmans recipe, Instead of using a whole gallon as the concentrate im using half gallon for each of the bottles. I found out that half a gallon per bottle is perfect for mixing ingredients. I first did a gallon for each a and b and it seemed really diluted. Had to add a lot to get the desired ppm when feeding.

this is his COCO Coir recipe im using

(1 gallon Part A & 1 gallon Part B of both formulas) "Im using a half gallon of distilled water for each a and b"


Coco Grow

The list below is not the ingredients but the amount of each element in ppms. Commercial brands show by %. Below this list are the ingredients in ounces per gallon. "Im using half a gallon"

Nitrogen 268
Phosphorus 89
Potassium 179
Magnesium 32
Calcium 315
Sulfur 43
Iron 10.00
Manganese 5.00 .
Boron 5.00
Zinc 5.00
Copper 1.00
Molbdnum 0.09

Ingredients are listed below in Ounces Per Gallon, this is a two part mix per growth stage and bloom stage. Below is for the growth stage. When you first mix these chemicals together its important to use warm distilled water. You will also need the proper scales to measure small amounts such as .002 of an ounce when you first make a batch. When you're ready to feed your plants make sure you shake them just like commercial brands, mix both part a and b check ppm/ph then feed.


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Coco Grow;

Part A Concentrate ------------I used half a gallon and not a whole gallon as it recommends

Calcium Nitrate = 20.8 ounces
Potassium Nitrate = 1.2 ounces
Iron Chelate = 1.35 ounces


Part B Concentrate -----------------I used half a gallon and not a whole gallon as it recommends

Potassium Nitrate = 1.2 ounces
MonoPotassium Phosphate = 5.6 ounces
Magnesium Sulfate = 4.3 ounces
Manganese Sulfate = .269 of an ounce
Boric Acid / Solubor = .368 of an ounce
Zinc Sulfate = .291 of an ounce
Copper Sulfate = .059 of an ounce
Ammonium Molybdate = .002 of an ounce

Ph 5.5-5.8

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Coco Bloom

ppm
Nitrogen 200
Phosphorus 200
Potassium 300
Magnesium 50
Calcium 231
Sulfur 66
Iron 10.00
Manganese 5.00
Boron 5.00
Zinc 5.00
Copper 1.00

Ounces

Part A

Calcium Nitrate 15.3
Potassium Nitrate 1.0
Iron Chelate 1.35



Part B
Potassium Nitrate 1.0
MonoPotassium Phosphate 12.6
Magnesium Sulfate 6.7
Manganese Sulfate .269
Boric Acid / Solubor .368
Zinc Sulfate .291
Copper Sulfate .059
Ammonium Molybdate .002


ph 5.5-5.8

If you think one of the macro or micro compounds is too high or too low you can always adjust the ingredients with the nute calculate aka. hydrobuddy. Hydrobuddy even has recipes for grow and bloom. Just type in the ingredients you have, plug in the desired numbers and it will convert the recipe for you in ounces or grams. There are plenty of diy recipes on the net, im using fatmans since he has one specifically made for coco coir and it has proven itself beyond a shadow of a doubt.

rshackleferd said:

If you think one of the macro or micro compounds is too high or too low you can always adjust the ingredients with the nute calculate aka. hydrobuddy. Hydrobuddy even has recipes for grow and bloom. Just type in the ingredients you have, plug in the desired numbers and it will convert the recipe for you in ounces or grams. There are plenty of diy recipes on the net, im using fatmans since he has one specifically made for coco coir and it has proven itself beyond a shadow of a doubt.

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I still can't understand why you'd try fatman before trying one of the other recipes listed on hydrobuddy.

Also, that bloom mix is ridiculous with 200ppm P. 60ppm P is on the upper end of most recipes I've seen and 30ppm for leafy plants. The MKP you're using to supply P is also supplying way too much K.

If I had a choice of those 2 mixes, I'd completely ignore the bloom mix and use the grow mix for everything..

Of course it's also too high in Fe, Zn, Mn, and B. Fe should be between 1-5ppm and Zn, Mn, and B below 1ppm. 0.7ppm B and Mn is good.

Also also... which chelated iron? Sodium borate or boric acid? If you change which you use, the recipe changes.

churchhaze said:

I still can't understand why you'd try fatman before trying one of the other recipes listed on hydrobuddy.

Also, that bloom mix is ridiculous with 200ppm P. 60ppm P is on the upper end of most recipes I've seen and 30ppm for leafy plants. The MKP you're using to supply P is also supplying way too much K.

If I had a choice of those 2 mixes, I'd completely ignore the bloom mix and use the grow mix for everything..

Of course it's also too high in Fe, Zn, Mn, and B. Fe should be between 1-5ppm and Zn, Mn, and B below 1ppm. 0.7ppm B and Mn is good.

Also also... which chelated iron? Sodium borate or boric acid? If you change which you use, the recipe changes.

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It wasnt actually fatmans recipe, the numbers were from a commercial brand he plugged into hydrobuddy, he just used different ingredients. Anyway we had this discussion before churchhaze and we both came to the same conclusion. Everybody has their own idea what the perfect formulation is and there are other examples out there like i have pointed out in the above post. Even commercial brand vary wildly with their ingredients, some are even heavier with micro nutes than fatmans, soil even varies more that. I decided to use fatmans coco coir recipe because i have read other people who have had success growing with that recipe and my plants are doing awesome in fact i have never seen them do this good and i have been growing for over 20 years. Yes the Iron, calcium, and a few others are a little high but what most people dont realize is that they add more of those micro nutes with supplemental products such as calmag and others.

churchhaze said:

Also also... which chelated iron? Sodium borate or boric acid? If you change which you use, the recipe changes.

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If you read what i wrote in my post i stated boric acid and dtpa chelated iron. Take a look at the first list of ingredients where it list the specific type and place i bought those ingredients from.

You say everyone has their own idea of what is the perfect formulation, but all the recipes worth a damn have Fe between 1-5ppm, and B, Mn, and Zn below 2ppm. You're the only one boasting the benefits of toxic levels of zinc. Fatman isn't even here anymore to defend it.

Edit: I have no doubt your recipe works well. I've used plenty of DIY recipes that were suboptimal. Most people using commercial nutes also end up feeding sub-optimally because they take the liberty to "supplement", ignoring the designed element ratios chosen by the nutrient company and taking matters into their own hands.

churchhaze said:

If I had a choice of those 2 mixes, I'd completely ignore the bloom mix and use the grow mix for everything..

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Yea im thinking about using one of hydrobuddies bloom recipes for flower. However they do have commerical brands that have a higher nitrate ratio for flower. So ill probably do another comparison grow using different types of blends along with fox farms and dyno gro. One guy who mixed his own said he didnt see a difference in his flowering stage. So I shall know the truth after this grow.

churchhaze said:

Edit: I have no doubt your recipe works well. I've used plenty of DIY recipes that were suboptimal.

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LOL...definitely not suboptimal in my case. The two commercial brands im using "fox farms and dyno gro" have now become the substandard nutes. I am at the point of just selling the remainder, if not i will be using the commercial brands for my lawn and garden till they are used up.

Guess there is only one kind of Fe-DTPA available stateside (about 5% judging by the weights), over here the most common ones are 6% ,7% and 11% in powder/soluble granular form and 3% and 4% in liquid form. I use this one: http://uk.solufeed.com/products/chelates/solufeed-fe-11-dtpa
Boric acid advertised as a roach killer is likely to be as pure as potassium nitrate being advertised as stump remover The main chems like calcium nitrate and KNO3 will be much cheaper from an agricultural supplier than ebay. I dont know what your ebay chems cost but i pay $0.82/kg (2.2lbs) for Yara Calcinit and $1.52/kg for Yara krista-K plus (KNO3).

You should have the run off tested by a agri lab so you know whats in it, it will save wasting chems/cash but more importantly it`ll save the environment from unnecessary pollution.

This is the one I'm using:

Atomizer said:

The main chems like calcium nitrate and KNO3 will be much cheaper from an agricultural supplier than ebay..

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Shipping regulations in the US make shipping small amounts of potassium nitrate more expensive than the product itself. What I've found is that when buying potassium nitrate, it's easier to get it on ebay than more legitimate online stores that actually follow the rules.

For example, cropking charges about 50 bucks shipping on a 5 pound bag of KNO3, while it only cost 20 dollars to ship a 50 pound bag of calcium nitrate. I got 10lb of KNO3 on ebay with free shipping..... and it came with KNO3 leaking out of the box..... lol

I guess if you're desperate, you could probably use stump remover from home depot for KNO3.

Atomizer said:

Guess there is only one kind of Fe-DTPA available stateside (about 5% judging by the weights), over here the most common ones are 6% ,7% and 11% in powder/soluble granular form and 3% and 4% in liquid form. I use this one: http://uk.solufeed.com/products/chelates/solufeed-fe-11-dtpa
Boric acid advertised as a roach killer is likely to be as pure as potassium nitrate being advertised as stump remover The main chems like calcium nitrate and KNO3 will be much cheaper from an agricultural supplier than ebay. I dont know what your ebay chems cost but i pay $0.82/kg (2.2lbs) for Yara Calcinit and $1.52/kg for Yara krista-K plus (KNO3).
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You should have the run off tested by a agri lab so you know whats in it, it will save wasting chems/cash but more importantly it`ll save the environment from unnecessary pollution.

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My dad tested the potassium nitrate from ebay and it came back 98% pure. The rest of the chems i have no idea but seem to be doing just fine as far as the grow is concerned. I did look for the best deals and most of the agricultural suppliers in the states were selling in bulk and the shipping rates were next to rape. My main intent was just to experiment with small amounts and ebay fit the bill. However i didnt realize that these small amounts were going to go a long way, most likely last for years. Like churchhaze said, they charge out the azz for chems in the states, nevertheless it is still a better deal than commercial nutes. I can make tens of gallons of concentrate for the price of one gallon of "premium nutes" and what i have been finding out is that the girls love it even more than the commercial brands. What has been your results?

I buy 25kg (55lb) sacks mainly, luckily no shipping as the suppliers are within driving range. The beauty of individual chems is they`re not crop specific so your not tied to a bottle until its gone or even to single crop type. Nutes for weed, lettuce or "insert any crop here" all cost about the same +/- a few pennies.
You might want to calculate how much of that AquaIron you need to add to reach your 10ppm target

Atomizer said:

I buy 25kg (55lb) sacks mainly, luckily no shipping as the suppliers are within driving range. The beauty of individual chems is they`re not crop specific so your not tied to a bottle until its gone or even to single crop type. Nutes for weed, lettuce or "insert any crop here" all cost about the same +/- a few pennies.
You might want to calculate how much of that AquaIron you need to add to reach your 10ppm target

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Aqualron or just about any dtpa chelated iron product varies + or - by only 1%, So plugging in those numbers on hydrobuddy or even using fatmans recipe will give you accurate results. Toxic levels of iron according to texas a&m university start with most plants at 178ppm so you have a large leeway before running into problems. I had a hard time finding a product of dtpa chelated iron that contained less than 10%, However im not saying its not out there. Whoever is interested in making your own nutes and are concerned with the iron content just make sure the label states 10 or 11%.

churchhaze said:

You say everyone has their own idea of what is the perfect formulation, but all the recipes worth a damn have Fe between 1-5ppm, and B, Mn, and Zn below 2ppm. You're the only one boasting the benefits of toxic levels of zinc.

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I have researched toxic levels of the micro nutrients churchhaze and found out toxic levels of zinc start at 200ppm. Fatman recommends a mere 5ppm and its even higher with zinc sulfate since it releases it more slowly than pure elemental zinc. Iron starts being toxic at 178ppm "fatman recommends 10ppm" so you have very LARGE leeway before micronutes become a problem. I have a list here from several sources of toxicity levels of micro nutrients done with cannabis plants, most of it being done on hemp. It also list toxic levels of several other plants including the tomato which has similar needs and all plants on this list start at very high ppm levels. Fatmans recipe doesnt even come close in fact it doesn't even come near the toxic levels listed.