USA - Probably the most ****ed up country on earth

Rob Roy said:

The USA is a combination of some remaining vestigial freedoms and an active bureaucracy bent on extinguishing all of them. Anyone who thinks Amerika is free should explain why it has the highest prison population in the world. Also the "free press" can be bought. I recommend turning off your television.

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Free press includes bloggers, leakers, etc.

The senate actually had a committee meeting about how to define journalists the other day until they realized they could not even come up with a definition. That wont stop them from trying to abridge the 1st amendment as they have tried to abridge practically every other one.

NLXSK1 said:

Free press includes bloggers, leakers, etc.

The senate actually had a committee meeting about how to define journalists the other day until they realized they could not even come up with a definition. That wont stop them from trying to abridge the 1st amendment as they have tried to abridge practically every other one.

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I saw that the goons were trying to define what a journalist is....it's a little scary.

It would be dangerous if they had (re)defined what the press is or isn't. That way they could declare some people "not press" and restrict their speech or access to government proceedings.

All press has a bias. Most cheer lead for their "team" rather than focusing on truth. I prefer press with a bias towards individual liberty and responsibility. Peace.

Rob Roy said:

I saw that the goons were trying to define what a journalist is....it's a little scary.

It would be dangerous if they had (re)defined what the press is or isn't. That way they could declare some people "not press" and restrict their speech or access to government proceedings.

All press has a bias. Most cheer lead for their "team" rather than focusing on truth. I prefer press with a bias towards individual liberty and responsibility. Peace.

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If you remember in the first term of the Obama administration they tried to label Fox News as "Not" Journalists. If the press had not circled the wagons at that time and showed solidarity we would probably be much further along the trail of censorship now.

Whatever you think of Fox News, CNN, CBS, ABC, etc. they are all journalists along with bloggers, and anyone else that can write, type or post a U-tube video. Having the government say any different is dangerous to us all.

rizzlaking said:

no sorry that's just untrue, there was and is no legal logical reason for either Afghanistan or Iraq, made up fictitious ones perhaps but certainly nothing to justify the murder in cold blood of over a million people and counting.


how was it entirely legitimate ?

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So the Taliban and al-qaeda didn't have a documented history of working together in Afghanistan since the 90's? That country was harboring the major players of the terrorist organization that attacked the US on Sep. 11, 2001; in addition to several other, prior, occasions. Afghanistan was home to multiple training camps for al-qaeda; was known for harboring and supporting them (As they aided the Taliban in their power-grab.); and they had no intention of ceasing use of their many training camps in Afghanistan any time soon. Is that not justification for going in? If not, how is it not?

kpmarine said:

So the Taliban and al-qaeda didn't have a documented history of working together in Afghanistan since the 90's? That country was harboring the major players of the terrorist organization that attacked the US on Sep. 11, 2001; in addition to several other, prior, occasions. Afghanistan was home to multiple training camps for al-qaeda; was known for harboring and supporting them (As they aided the Taliban in their power-grab.); and they had no intention of ceasing use of their many training camps in Afghanistan any time soon. Is that not justification for going in? If not, how is it not?

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The Taliban and Al Queda are not the same thing, saying they are is a logical fallacy perpetrated by the main stream media.

Do try to think critically, since the Taliban were disposed 96+% of the worlds heroin supply now comes from Afghanistan, with poppy fields protected by US soldiers to win "hearts and minds".

Al Queda havnt been in Afghanistan for 10+ years and the Taliban are simply fighting the foreign invaders...how does that upset your worldview?

Rob Roy said:

I saw that the goons were trying to define what a journalist is....it's a little scary.

It would be dangerous if they had (re)defined what the press is or isn't. That way they could declare some people "not press" and restrict their speech or access to government proceedings.

All press has a bias. Most cheer lead for their "team" rather than focusing on truth. I prefer press with a bias towards individual liberty and responsibility. Peace.

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Bingo... Now a well regulated press core must be on the cards... IMO a very easy way to make a definative decision on who is a journalist and who is a spy. This is how you go about shutting down another avenue for whistleblowers, regulate journalists so you can control who leaks what and to whom. Any leak not sanctioned inside the beltway will be treated as outright espionage, which is High treason.

kpmarine said:

So the Taliban and al-qaeda didn't have a documented history of working together in Afghanistan since the 90's? That country was harboring the major players of the terrorist organization that attacked the US on Sep. 11, 2001; in addition to several other, prior, occasions. Afghanistan was home to multiple training camps for al-qaeda; was known for harboring and supporting them (As they aided the Taliban in their power-grab.); and they had no intention of ceasing use of their many training camps in Afghanistan any time soon. Is that not justification for going in? If not, how is it not?

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Since the 80's... Taliban/Haqqanis are native afghans, AQ are foreign fighters and Arabs/Afghan Arabs. AQ regional leadership in Af/Pak is run by Afghan Arabs that are all ex-muj fighters. So their training, funding and TTPs came thanks to the US.

Don't forget the US aided the taliban to power you also facilitaed the assasination of Ahmad Shah Massoud on 9/9/01 northern alliance leader. You support Pakistan to the tune of $2billion a year while the ISI maintains C2 over the taliban, the haqqanis and their affiliates operating in Afg and the paki tribal areas.

Everything youre saying also describes Saudi Arabia and lets not forget who was "flying" those planes, where they came from and who trained them.

Harrekin said:

The Taliban and Al Queda are not the same thing, saying they are is a logical fallacy perpetrated by the main stream media.

Do try to think critically, since the Taliban were disposed 96+% of the worlds heroin supply now comes from Afghanistan, with poppy fields protected by US soldiers to win "hearts and minds".

Al Queda havnt been in Afghanistan for 10+ years and the Taliban are simply fighting the foreign invaders...how does that upset your worldview?

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AQ are still there last REAL estimates put them around 400-500 - AQ as in arabs/afghan arabs and foreign fighters, most ex muj from the 80's.

NLXSK1 said:

Anyone who thinks the US is the most fucked up country in the world has not been to many countries.

Take into account that freedom of the press is non-existent in most of the world.

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freedom of press, lol you say that as if to imply the USA has all that freedom and then some.

so where have you been?

NLXSK1 said:

Free press includes bloggers, leakers, etc.

The senate actually had a committee meeting about how to define journalists the other day until they realized they could not even come up with a definition. That wont stop them from trying to abridge the 1st amendment as they have tried to abridge practically every other one.

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leakers? what?!? you mean like, wiki LEAKS? Hasn't Jullian Assange been stuck in an embassy for the past year or something like that because he's being pursued by the USA?
The US Gov = corrupt as fuck. and US citizens who don't care but are still proud and patriotic and all of that, aren't worth shit. They're wasted bodies that have been consumed by someone elses agenda.

Harrekin said:

The Taliban and Al Queda are not the same thing, saying they are is a logical fallacy perpetrated by the main stream media.

Do try to think critically, since the Taliban were disposed 96+% of the worlds heroin supply now comes from Afghanistan, with poppy fields protected by US soldiers to win "hearts and minds".

Al Queda havnt been in Afghanistan for 10+ years and the Taliban are simply fighting the foreign invaders...how does that upset your worldview?

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Do you not see the several times in my statement where I CLEARLY treat them as two seperate organizations? I said they were in mutually-supportive of one another in Afghanistan, not that they were the same entity. Please don't put words in my mouth. Feel free to indicate where I said they were the same group.

Seeing as the US has on multiple occasions attempted to reduce poppy farming, and is now providing funding to the Afghan gov. to combat the issue; what's your point? It seems like they're doing their best in a tricky situation. You can't just burn down a poppy field without creating more enemies. That farmer's poppies are a major means of income. It's not as simple as "Burn the poppy fields!"; that would create more problems than it solves. So my critical thinking on that is your statement didn't really make any points.

As for troops still being there after AQ has been effectively booted; you know as well as I do that they could not have left outright. As I said before though (Had you read my other post a little further back.), our premise for being there is now invalid as AQ has effectively lost any of it's power in Afghan. So I'd say it doesn't upset my worldview at all; you've introduced no new information to me whatsoever.

Highlowazupkush said:

leakers? what?!? you mean like, wiki LEAKS? Hasn't Jullian Assange been stuck in an embassy for the past year or something like that because he's being pursued by the USA?
The US Gov = corrupt as fuck. and US citizens who don't care but are still proud and patriotic and all of that, aren't worth shit. They're wasted bodies that have been consumed by someone elses agenda.

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remember that when your slobering all over commie dick like kobayashi...

echelon1k1 said:

Since the 80's... Taliban/Haqqanis are native afghans, AQ are foreign fighters and Arabs/Afghan Arabs. AQ regional leadership in Af/Pak is run by Afghan Arabs that are all ex-muj fighters. So their training, funding and TTPs came thanks to the US.

Don't forget the US aided the taliban to power you also facilitaed the assasination of Ahmad Shah Massoud on 9/9/01 northern alliance leader. You support Pakistan to the tune of $2billion a year while the ISI maintains C2 over the taliban, the haqqanis and their affiliates operating in Afg and the paki tribal areas.

Everything youre saying also describes Saudi Arabia and lets not forget who was "flying" those planes, where they came from and who trained them.

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I personally feel that Saudi Arabia should have gotten a boot up their ass too. They were never shy about supporting AQ. Sadly, there were other interests at work other than actually dealing with our attackers and their supporters. Pakistan also likely should have gotten a few surgical strikes, aside from. However, invasion of those countries would have likely sparked WW3; so I'm guessing we took what we could get in an attempt to send a message. The least we could do at this point is cut off aid money to all these damn countries that have a history of trying to kill us.

I'm well aware the US supported the Taliban during their fight against the Soviets. If nothing else, I'm fairly sure we were providing foreign aid to their country. I'm sure not all of that actually went to "aid". I still maintain that the invasion of Afghanistan was entirely justifiable. You didn't really state a point to your statement; was there one?

Rob Roy said:

So a group of individuals in a rival gang tried to put a hit on Bush? Why then do ALL of the innocent people that occupy the territory that the rival gang operates in have to be subject to harm? Even the mafia is kind enough to leave the disinterested public out of most of their gang wars.

You think because something occurs regularly and is "normal", that it somehow makes it correct ethically and morally. Why don't YOU do a reality check? You support killing people that haven't harmed you? Why do you do this? A bunch of pieces of paper drawn up by pompous assholes can sanction murder? That's fucking preposterous.

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No I'm only talking about the UN sanctioned hit on Sadam. Unlawful to try to assassinate another Gang leader, says the UN.

You are on a high and mighty jag if you think you can define correct, morals and ethics for me by God. WE do that for you as you plainly chaff at. Stew in your juices.

kpmarine said:

I personally feel that Saudi Arabia should have gotten a boot up their ass too. They were never shy about supporting AQ. Sadly, there were other interests at work other than actually dealing with our attackers and their supporters. Pakistan also likely should have gotten a few surgical strikes, aside from. However, invasion of those countries would have likely sparked WW3; so I'm guessing we took what we could get in an attempt to send a message. The least we could do at this point is cut off aid money to all these damn countries that have a history of trying to kill us.

I'm well aware the US supported the Taliban during their fight against the Soviets. If nothing else, I'm fairly sure we were providing foreign aid to their country. I'm sure not all of that actually went to "aid". I still maintain that the invasion of Afghanistan was entirely justifiable. You didn't really state a point to your statement; was there one?

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Blowback.... In this case Foreign aid is the catch all term to cover Arms, COIN, FID and paramilitary action. Obamas admin. is supporting these guys in syria and libya, what happens when that gets boring and we're out of afghanistan? at least all conventional forces anyway...

The device used in the boston attacks was the exact same spec IED the CIA taught the muj to make back in the '80's this also extended to supporting jihadists in bosnia, they learned the same things too. Benghazi is another example and obviously 9/11 the big wedding was the most public.

Apart from arms & explosives training, some of these jihadists were given extensive training in intelligence tradecraft - add this to any paramilitary training and it makes for a formidable opponent that has received, to a degree, the same training operations folk in the clandestine services would receive.

I'm all for cutting off aid to countries that have said history but at the same time the US cannot in a covert or clandestine capacity support, in anyway, shape, form the very people we've been fighting and the organistations and ideology we're are trying to put down. I hope this is something that will be addressed because i cannot stress enough the severity of consequences resulting from lack of foresight and disregard for history... that old insanity addage comes to mind...

Doer said:

No I'm only talking about the UN sanctioned hit on Sadam. Unlawful to try to assassinate another Gang leader, says the UN.

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So did regan... Executive Order 12333 forbids the following;

No person employed by or acting on behalf of the United States Government shall engage in, or conspire to engage in, assassination.

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it's a bit of a LOL that one...

echelon1k1 said:

So did regan... Executive Order 12333 forbids the following;



it's a bit of a LOL that one...

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Well, everyone signed up for it to prevent another War of Assassins. Figures.

kpmarine said:

Do you not see the several times in my statement where I CLEARLY treat them as two seperate organizations? I said they were in mutually-supportive of one another in Afghanistan, not that they were the same entity. Please don't put words in my mouth. Feel free to indicate where I said they were the same group.

Seeing as the US has on multiple occasions attempted to reduce poppy farming, and is now providing funding to the Afghan gov. to combat the issue; what's your point? It seems like they're doing their best in a tricky situation. You can't just burn down a poppy field without creating more enemies. That farmer's poppies are a major means of income. It's not as simple as "Burn the poppy fields!"; that would create more problems than it solves. So my critical thinking on that is your statement didn't really make any points.

As for troops still being there after AQ has been effectively booted; you know as well as I do that they could not have left outright. As I said before though (Had you read my other post a little further back.), our premise for being there is now invalid as AQ has effectively lost any of it's power in Afghan. So I'd say it doesn't upset my worldview at all; you've introduced no new information to me whatsoever.

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Are you fucking kidding me?

Poppy cultivation only became widespread AFTER you idiots invaded because the Taliban kept it in check.

Also, Al Queda were long gone when you idiots arrived, the Taliban were only trying to fight off the terroristic foreign invaders.

I seem to remember that afghanistan was huge supplier of opium back when jfk was president ... Not sure its entirely the usa's fault . Probably one of the few crops that actually provided a living in such a place. Fuck the taliban they fucking treat women like shit thats a fact. Mind you im no supporter of our wars.

Amerikaner said:

I seem to remember that afghanistan was huge supplier of opium back when jfk was president ... Not sure its entirely the usa's fault . Probably one of the few crops that actually provided a living in such a place. Fuck the taliban they fucking treat women like shit thats a fact. Mind you im no supporter of our wars.

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Keep sucking up the propaganda...

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_production_in_Afghanistan said:

Opium production in Afghanistan has been on the rise since U.S. occupation started in 2001. Based on UNODC data, there has been more opium poppy cultivation in each of the past four growing seasons (2004–2007) than in any one year during Taliban rule. Also, more land is now used for opium in Afghanistan than for coca cultivation in Latin America. In 2007, 92% of the non-pharmaceutical-grade opiates on the world market originated in Afghanistan.

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