Vegan Organics Aka Veganics With Matt Rize

Matt thx for getting back to me. I had read your while thread that day being it's really the only thing I've found on veganics. This is something I'm really interested in. Tho I'm smaller scale now I plan to be running a good size op in the next few years. There's so little good info in regards to cannabis and veganics it's hard for someone in my shoes who's never even grown organically to just jump right in.

Now the cal/mag supplement what do you recommend?

Also I'm a beginner veganic grower but knowledgable chem grower and have been growing indoors and out for a few years. So based on this what would you suggest for a nute line up. Money aside. Running 600 watters and soon to be Co2

Klo$etBreeder said:

Matt thx for getting back to me. I had read your while thread that day being it's really the only thing I've found on veganics. This is something I'm really interested in. Tho I'm smaller scale now I plan to be running a good size op in the next few years. There's so little good info in regards to cannabis and veganics it's hard for someone in my shoes who's never even grown organically to just jump right in.

Now the cal/mag supplement what do you recommend?

Also I'm a beginner veganic grower but knowledgable chem grower and have been growing indoors and out for a few years. So based on this what would you suggest for a nute line up. Money aside. Running 600 watters and soon to be Co2

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Hey 600 watters and CO2, now that's my style, lol.

I fully recommend Biocanna products. Their veg/flower formulas are the best "bottled" nutrients around, and far superior to the other vegan organic lines (general organics and biobizz). The bioboost is amazing too.

Cal/Mag: I'm currently using separate Ca and Mg, products from cutting edge solutions (a crappy hydro company with a couple organic products). Cal/Mag products together are good too, but if they have Fe chelated with EDTA I say no way (ie CalMag+). The "+" stands for EDTA chelation. This is entirely counterproductive for organics, as there are many natural chealtes (citric acid, humic acid, ect).

Ok cool I'll be sticking around this thred for sure. Tons of info in here I'll need along with the help lol it's back to the beginning almost. I get to learn to grow all over agian which I'm super excited for! I still have a small amount of advanced nutes left and they'll get me thru the next 2 months but I'm pop'n some sour kush as we speak and I want them to be veganic. So I have about a month to get the new line up.

I'll deff be going with the biocanna line vega Flores boost, along with zyme and rhyzotonic.

Now will the tarantula and piranha from advanced be ok? Should be organic I assume

Also I've read that perlite isn't the best for the food web will it make a huge difference I just bought a few bales of pro-mix and still have half of it.

Thx for all the help I really appreciate it

Klo$etBreeder said:

Ok cool I'll be sticking around this thred for sure. Tons of info in here I'll need along with the help lol it's back to the beginning almost. I get to learn to grow all over agian which I'm super excited for! I still have a small amount of advanced nutes left and they'll get me thru the next 2 months but I'm pop'n some sour kush as we speak and I want them to be veganic. So I have about a month to get the new line up.

I'll deff be going with the biocanna line vega Flores boost, along with zyme and rhyzotonic.

Now will the tarantula and piranha from advanced be ok? Should be organic I assume

Also I've read that perlite isn't the best for the food web will it make a huge difference I just bought a few bales of pro-mix and still have half of it.

Thx for all the help I really appreciate it

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Tarantula and Piranah are inoculants, and very similar to great white when combined. Overpriced (because of AN) but good stuff none the less. Consider a compost tea brew set up for the vegan run. That can replace expensive inoculants.

Please ask away, veganics should be shared

Opinions on perlite are mixed. I'm currently running BioTerra Plus with 10% grade 3 perlite. I like watering more often... and the perlite is a back-up plan to make sure you don't overwater. I suggest using higher grade perlite, bigger chunks and less dust. Its the dust that is bad to breathe and affects soil pH.

Ok yea I got a ton of tarantula and piranha left, probably close to 200g of both I got a ton of it free with all my orders to advanced over the years and you don't use much at all.

I have Xmas to take care if still and then the money i still have left after paying rent will go to buying the new line.

Now the teas do you have a good recipe? I've never made one a day in my life lol. This is all 100% new to me. I've done some research but like I said it's hard to find good info on veganics related to cannabis.

So in my mind you have your base nutes like chem. Then your teas introduce your inoculants and are like boosters for the soil life. Really I can run the nutes just like the bottle says until I get the hang of everything right? Cuz I noticed you guys talking about adding specific NPK at certain times

Klo$etBreeder said:

Ok yea I got a ton of tarantula and piranha left, probably close to 200g of both I got a ton of it free with all my orders to advanced over the years and you don't use much at all.

I have Xmas to take care if still and then the money i still have left after paying rent will go to buying the new line.

Now the teas do you have a good recipe? I've never made one a day in my life lol. This is all 100% new to me. I've done some research but like I said it's hard to find good info on veganics related to cannabis.

So in my mind you have your base nutes like chem. Then your teas introduce your inoculants and are like boosters for the soil life. Really I can run the nutes just like the bottle says until I get the hang of everything right? Cuz I noticed you guys talking about adding specific NPK at certain times

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Teas: the recipe depends on your goal. I aim to make inoculant teas, aka AACT active aeration compost tea. These do not contain plant food so the recipe is super simple. Water, compost, molasses, humic acid, then aerate for 12 to 24 hours, strain, dilute, feed. Some folks like to brew tea with plant food in it. I do not. We can get into if there is interest. I suspect the plant food may do harm to the overall tea biodiversity.

The whole adding N or P or K thing is for advanced indoor gardens, which sounds like your style. The plants will tell you if they need more. I am trying to do this whole run with minimal supplements.

I'm using Biocanna Vega/Flores/Bioboost with Canna cannazym and rhizotonic. Also using Thrive Alive organic version, wet betty, a few inoculant products (widow, myco, great white), humic acid, fulvic acid, and molasses.

I would follow the directions on the bottles. They are a good place to start. Remember that the dosages listed are always for reverse osmosis water so are generally a little high.

Hey Matt! What are you thoughts on hygrozyme, and when do you prefer to use it?

Is it basically just for healthier roots? I know it's full of enzymes, but I don't know much... if anyone else knows anything they can chime in as well..

upthearsenal said:

Hey Matt! What are you thoughts on hygrozyme, and when do you prefer to use it?

Is it basically just for healthier roots? I know it's full of enzymes, but I don't know much... if anyone else knows anything they can chime in as well..

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I like hygrozyme because it carries multiple certifications. But I do not like the labeling and secret formula. Hygrozyme is an enzyme, meaning it is not living. It is similar to draino... lol... but for organic gardeners. What hygrozyme does is dissolve any dead or mushy roots, lazy man's root prune but better. All of the -zyme products are similar in that they are bottled enzymes designed to clean roots. I've been hearing good things about multizyme, something similar to hygrozyme but more a little cheaper to use.

I think these products are mostly cellulase.

Cellulase is an enzyme which breaks down cellulose to beta-glucose. It is produced mainly by symbiotic bacteria in the ruminating chambers of herbivores. At least two steps in cellulose degradation by microorganisms begin with the preparatory prehydrolytic first step involving an enzyme (C1) which swells and/or hydrates anhydroglucose chains. The second step uses hydrolytic enzymes (Cx) and beta glucosidase (cellobiase). Trichoderma reesei has an extensively studied cellulase enzyme complex. This complex converts crystalline, amorphous, and chemically derived celluloses quantitatively to glucose. Cellulase derived from Trichoderma longbrachiatum is comprised of an enzyme complex consisting of cellulase, a glucosidase, cellobiohydrolase and a glucanase. This complex converts cellulose to beta-dextrins and ultimately to D-glucose. Cellulase is used as a digestive aid, particularly in animals, and for the management of flatulence.

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http://www.greatvistachemicals.com/biochemicals/cellulase.html

Haha yeah, when I searched the thread for hygrozyme as the keyword, I got you saying both that it was organic and "who knows what's in it", so I thought it might be kind of sketchy... I have no experience with any "-zyme" products, so maybe I'll give this a go.

Matt Rize said:

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Cal/Mag: I'm currently using separate Ca and Mg, products from cutting edge solutions (a crappy hydro company with a couple organic products). Cal/Mag products together are good too, but if they have Fe chelated with...........The "+" stands for EDTA chelation. This is entirely counterproductive for organics, as there are many natural chealtes (citric acid, humic acid, ect).

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GO CaMg has a "+" on its label hence General Organics CaMg+. I thought the "+" means cation and calcium and magnesium are indeed cations, right? There's no mention of EDTA or chelation on its label.

Matt Rize said:

I agree wholeheartedly with you...much cheaper ways to do veganics, but for newbs and people who are super busy...excellent choice. Except on the hash thing I kinda disagree. There are two kinds of coughs: the "my lungs are glued together" cough, and the "irritants cough". Do you know what I'm talking about?

I have heard of people getting sick from animal ferts (I'm one of them, and this is why I'm so into veganics).

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i agree my first grow is going to be veganics...i want the pure high instead of the chemicals, i too have gotten sick from poor weed.

but ive been in and out this forum and im looking for a guide/techniques of growing veganics like a full tutorial or list of things to do when to do it....any suggestions?

elduece said:

GO CaMg has a "+" on its label hence General Organics CaMg+. I thought the "+" means cation and calcium and magnesium are indeed cations, right? There's no mention of EDTA or chelation on its label.

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The plus does not refer to the cation status as far as I know. Botanicare cal/mag+: the plus is chelated Fe (EDTA).

Top5 said:

but ive been in and out this forum and im looking for a guide/techniques of growing veganics like a full tutorial or list of things to do when to do it....any suggestions?

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Kushman and my sister Ava Rize and writing that book. He's just put together his feed chart. But honestly we do not grow the same. We are both still fine tuning our systems. In my not so very humble opinion, I'm always a few steps ahead

I'm convinced this is the only purchased inoculant that is needed:
http://www.bioag.com/images/VAM_Tech_LR.pdf
or to order: http://www.bioag.com/oregonorderpage.html

Matt Rize said:

Kushman and my sister Ava Rize and writing that book. He's just put together his feed chart. But honestly we do not grow the same. We are both still fine tuning our systems. In my not so very humble opinion, I'm always a few steps ahead

I'm convinced this is the only purchased inoculant that is needed:
http://www.bioag.com/images/VAM_Tech_LR.pdf
or to order: http://www.bioag.com/oregonorderpage.html

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anyway you could come up with a nice video tutorial or your special techniques, id love to see the whole snapping of the stem thing done right. i dont want to mess up anything.

Matt,

We've spoken before regarding our dealings with Cali collectives, in particular prices paid by collectives for various medication. Have you found the collectives receptive to veganic medicine? Have they seen the advantage and been willing to compensate for the extra production costs of this type of growing?

Top5 said:

anyway you could come up with a nice video tutorial or your special techniques, id love to see the whole snapping of the stem thing done right. i dont want to mess up anything.

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oh man, we put a lot of time into documenting that properly for the movie. I'll make a home video this week of "kushman chiropracty".

collective gardener said:

Matt,

We've spoken before regarding our dealings with Cali collectives, in particular prices paid by collectives for various medication. Have you found the collectives receptive to veganic medicine? Have they seen the advantage and been willing to compensate for the extra production costs of this type of growing?

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Yes, and yes. BUT since that veganic medicine comes with kushman's name on it... makes it easier to get compensated. I can't say anything for certain about vending to dispensaries. Many of them are sketchy and unscrupulous. Its all about the relationship with the dispensary. I for one know that Organicann is out to make money, and don't care about things like organic and veganic. It really depends on the store and their market.

Matt,

I really like the direction you're going. It will be interesting to see how many growers actually end up pure vegan. I have always believed that in this culture there is a niche for just about everything. I would like to know if you could quantify the quality increase going from traditional organic (guano and such) to veganic. Is it as drastic as going from chemical to organic? Based on your thread here, we will surely be running some test plants using your veganic techniques. It has taken us a long time to perfect our orgainic sources of micros and secondary nutrients. Typically we use Earthjuice Microblast for the micros, Botanicare Ca for calcium, and Botanicare Sweet Raw for magnesium and sulfur. What veganic techniques would you suggest to provide these nutrients? I can figure out the N-P-K easy enough.

Thank you very much for all your informative threads. And thank you to the forum for keeping the hate to a minimum.

collective gardener said:

Matt,

I really like the direction you're going. It will be interesting to see how many growers actually end up pure vegan. I have always believed that in this culture there is a niche for just about everything. I would like to know if you could quantify the quality increase going from traditional organic (guano and such) to veganic. Is it as drastic as going from chemical to organic? Based on your thread here, we will surely be running some test plants using your veganic techniques. It has taken us a long time to perfect our orgainic sources of micros and secondary nutrients. Typically we use Earthjuice Microblast for the micros, Botanicare Ca for calcium, and Botanicare Sweet Raw for magnesium and sulfur. What veganic techniques would you suggest to provide these nutrients? I can figure out the N-P-K easy enough.

Thank you very much for all your informative threads. And thank you to the forum for keeping the hate to a minimum.

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Hey thanks. There are many vegan organic growers already, but they think of it as fermented plant extracts. Jaykush over on ic organic soil forum has been doing this for years outside. WARNING! some of the mods are complete assholes on IC and ban you for daring to disagree, or calling them out for being money grubbing schemers who smoke 'tane. The entire site is designed to sell seeds and make money for gypsy nirvana. If you talk about kyle kushman, high times, california, oaksterdam, reeferman, or any other breeder (or entity) who doesn't pay gypsy then you will be banned. I digress...

I've been liking mineral maxtrix as a very low dose micro supplement, mostly for iron. Earth juice is one of the best overall nute companies IMHO, and their microblast is great. I think I'll be testing that soon with the vegan line. Ca and Mg are hardly micronutrients in ganja growing, and at times are needed in higher concentrations than Phos. Phos is historically misunderstood IMHO due to the likes of Ed, Jorge, and Mel.

I'll check out botanicare sweet raw ingredients, and get back to you on that. Stand alone Ca and Mg are nice IMO because they are needed in such high amounts. lol and I used epsom salts for about a decade with no issues