Vegan Organics Aka Veganics With Matt Rize

beauty. thanks for posting. any other details you are willing to part with?
I'm using a similar recipe to yours. Biocanna Flores, Bio Boost, Rhizotonic, Cannazyme, Huvega, Calplex, Humboldt Honey ES, Great White, and Earthjuice Microblast, in 3 gallons of Sunshine #4 Advanced (Peat, Perlite, and 10% coco) each. All under a single 1000w in a DR150. Here's a canopy pic.

DSC_0031.jpg

It's actually my first indoor grow—it's all been outdoor up till now.
 

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
I'm using a similar recipe to yours. Biocanna Flores, Bio Boost, Rhizotonic, Cannazyme, Huvega, Calplex, Humboldt Honey ES, Great White, and Earthjuice Microblast, in 3 gallons of Sunshine #4 Advanced (Peat, Perlite, and 10% coco) each. All under a single 1000w in a DR150. Here's a canopy pic.
LOL, Killer pic bro! Looks better than mine. :)
 
Yeah, I've had some problems with magnesium deficiency but other than that I'm pretty happy with how they've come along. I'm thinking the magnesium deficiency came from too much K? I lowered the amount of Flores I was using, cut out the Diamond Black and cut back on the molasses and they seem to be happier.
 

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
Yeah, I've had some problems with magnesium deficiency but other than that I'm pretty happy with how they've come along. I'm thinking the magnesium deficiency came from too much K? I lowered the amount of Flores I was using, cut out the Diamond Black and cut back on the molasses and they seem to be happier.
word, great to know. I still run pretty low on nutes. Basically low end of canna charts, no more cannazyme or rhizo now that buds are forming. I'm using the bioboost, with some 0-10-0 from HN and Kelp/humic/micronutes from bioag. Then calplex and huvega at half the low end of suggested. I've having N deficiency on some plants, two and a half weeks from harvest... I ran out of vega and used all flores for a couple waterings, d'oh.
 
Should I be mixing my Vega and Flores? I just did as Canna's chart suggested and used Vega for the first two weeks of flower, then switched to Flores. I'm four weeks from finishing and have yet to see a nitrogen deficiency. I was under the impression that, by harvest, you should see a full fledged nitrogen deficiency? Or is this only true outdoors?

I have a bottle of 0-10-0 sitting around from last season's outdoor. Does it go bad quickly? I haven't used it indoors yet, I haven't really seen a need. That Bioag stuff looks like a much more elegant solution than Microblast. I'll have to get some when my bottle of runs out.
 

NightbirdX

Well-Known Member
My first batch of Plants with BioCanna is just finishing up. Mine started showing Nit Def at about day 50 and has been steadily working up my plants. I'm not sure what everyone elses plants are doing, but that's what mine are doing. :)

About mixing. I do all Vega in week one, 50/50 mix of Vega and Flores in week 2 and in week 3 of flowering, go to Flores and BioBoost
 

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
My first batch of Plants with BioCanna is just finishing up. Mine started showing Nit Def at about day 50 and has been steadily working up my plants. I'm not sure what everyone elses plants are doing, but that's what mine are doing. :)

About mixing. I do all Vega in week one, 50/50 mix of Vega and Flores in week 2 and in week 3 of flowering, go to Flores and BioBoost
Same here, very close at least. If the yellowing goes too fast I'll use a little more vega and less flores. Are you using any calmag?
 

Matt Rize

Hashmaster

slink456

Member
ive been reading alot and following you and kushman, i started my own vegan grow and it is not looking as healthy as the one i saw in kushmans video. Ive copied most of your nutes like,mineral matrix, thrivealive b1 green ofcourse, biothrive bloom from GH, cannazyme, canna boost, natures nectar, and i transplanted with the rhizatonic, also have hygrozym which is great stuff. ive brewed a couple of teas during veg stage with some worm castings and seaweed, but since i switched to 12/12 i stopped because im not sure if its okay to mix all these together. so ive just been using natures nectar, mineral matrix, biothrive bloom complimented with calmg, cannazyme everyother watering and hygrozyme once a week, and now since im 3 to 4 weeks into flower im using canna boost. i have kings kush an platinum og an out of 15 plants only half look healthy. my room is perfect temp 75 -78 humidity at 50% an fresh c02 around 1200 every 15 minutes an then exhausted. any suggestions prof? maybe on how to brew my teas ?
 

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
ive been reading alot and following you and kushman, i started my own vegan grow and it is not looking as healthy as the one i saw in kushmans video. Ive copied most of your nutes like,mineral matrix, thrivealive b1 green ofcourse, biothrive bloom from GH, cannazyme, canna boost, natures nectar, and i transplanted with the rhizatonic, also have hygrozym which is great stuff. ive brewed a couple of teas during veg stage with some worm castings and seaweed, but since i switched to 12/12 i stopped because im not sure if its okay to mix all these together. so ive just been using natures nectar, mineral matrix, biothrive bloom complimented with calmg, cannazyme everyother watering and hygrozyme once a week, and now since im 3 to 4 weeks into flower im using canna boost. i have kings kush an platinum og an out of 15 plants only half look healthy. my room is perfect temp 75 -78 humidity at 50% an fresh c02 around 1200 every 15 minutes an then exhausted. any suggestions prof? maybe on how to brew my teas ?
I'm not using a lot of that stuff. What do you mean by not looking good? Any pics? Or a description?

Teas are simple. gallon of RO water, scoop of compost (or soil, or vermicompost), tablespoon molasses, teaspoon yucca juice. Bubble vigorously for 18 to 24 hours. Dilute 1:20 with water (bubbled 24+ hours). Every other feeding, tea then food, never together or you may kill the tea.
 

slink456

Member
i saw that stuff on kushmans video with the first time grow.ill get some pics up tomorrow but where the flowers are the leaves are curling down and looking quite yellow which im sure is nitrogen, but do you have any suggestions on a good tea mix? can i mix up wormcastings, humic an fulvic acid an seaweed all together ?
 

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
i saw that stuff on kushmans video with the first time grow.ill get some pics up tomorrow but where the flowers are the leaves are curling down and looking quite yellow which im sure is nitrogen, but do you have any suggestions on a good tea mix? can i mix up wormcastings, humic an fulvic acid an seaweed all together ?
Gotta make sure you understand what a tea is referring to. An ACT is Active Compost Tea. It's not just some stuff mixed up in water, you must aerate.
credit: ctguy, then microbeorganics.com
It's Tea Time!

Compost tea has become increasingly popular in the last few years as part of a grower's program. In fact, current world record holder was grown using this technology. I'd like to take this opportunity to discuss different types of compost teas and share some of the knowledge we've gained in the industry over the past 5 years.
Let's start by looking at some of the different types of teas you can make for your plants:

Plant Tea - This is where plants are soaked directly in water for an extended period of time. Compost is not involved, and any bacteria or fungi on the surface of the plant will be extracted. May contain some soluble nutrients.

Manure Tea - Typically manure is placed in a permeable bag (burlap) into a bucket or barrel and left to soak for an (# of days) extended period of time. Compost is not involved, and will be dominated by anaerobic organisms (bacteria and ciliates). Pathogens will be present in most instances, and may burn the leaf surfaces of plants. These teas will contain some soluble nutrients, but may also contain antibiotics and growth hormones such as tetracycline, that are not broken down during the composting process.

"Put To Sleep" Tea - These teas are typically advertised as "instant" compost teas. Specific organisms are cultured or extracted from compost and then put into a dormant state. Even with hundreds of different species, it won't contain even 1% of the diversity or quantities you would find in properly made aerated compost tea. These teas may be helpful in certain instances when you wish to combat certain diseases and know the proper microbe that has been documented to prevent or suppress it (eg. trichoderma).

Compost Leachate - These teas is sometimes referred as "worm tea" as it is the liquid that leaches out of the base of worm bins or compost piles during the composting process. Leachates will consist primarily of soluble nutrients, but will contain some small amount of biology. This can serve as a good food substrate for the biology in your soil.

Compost Extract - Compost extract is where the microorganisms are stripped from the soil aggregates using water and extracted into a liquid form. This process will contain good biology for soil drenches, and can be made very quickly, as it does not require a brewing process. It does however require a large amount of compost relative to the final liquid product, and is primarily used in large commercial productions.

Non-Aerated Compost Tea - This is where compost is put into a container with water and foods are added for the microbes. The tea is then stirred occasionally or left to sit for a period of time. These teas may or may not produce beneficial results and could potentially harm your plants depending on the anaerobic organisms in your starting compost.

Aerated Compost Tea (AACT or ACT) - Similar to the tea above, this process involves adding oxygen to the tea and a food source for the biology in the compost. By creating optimal conditions for aerobic microbes, AACT allows you to multiply the biology in the starting compost by over 10,000 times. Many plant pathogens are anaerobic and prefer low to no oxygen conditions. By making sure the tea and the compost itself are well oxygenated and highly aerobic, you can potentially eliminate 75 percent of the potential plant-disease-causing bacteria and plant-toxic products.
For the past 5 years, AACT has become the standard within the organic industry in regards to compost teas. It's currently being used by golf courses, vineyards, farmers, and homeowners as a means of growing healthier plants. Here's a list of some of the benefits:

Compost tea has been shown to help in disease-suppression (pythium, phytopthera, powdery mildew, fusarium, etc.) when applied as a foliar spray and soil drench.

Helps extend root systems

Increases water and nutrient retention

Is 100% safe and natural

Creates healthier plants

Helps breakdown of toxins in the soil and on the plants

Enhances the taste of fruits and vegetables

Reduces or eliminates the need for chemical pesticides, herbicides, and fertilizers

Occupies the space around the infection sites so disease-causing organisms cannot penetrate into the tissues of the plant

Cannot be over-applied because it is completely natural and organic

These benefits are all attributed to well-made AACT. If the tea is not made properly, you will not see all of the benefits listed above. Let's take a closer look at what goes into making quality aerated compost tea.

1. Good compost is very important! Without good biology in the compost, you really have no chance of getting high-quality tea. You can only multiply what you put into your brewer, therefore good compost that has been tested to have high numbers and a diversity of beneficial organisms is essential. A lot of science goes into making good compost, and unless you test your compost you really have no idea if what you are putting into your brewer is truly beneficial. By adjusting the type of compost you put in the brewer you can control whether your tea is going to be bacterial or fungal dominated. We use a mix of 3 different composts (Alaska humus, vermicompost, and a fungal compost comprised of woody materials) to increase the biological diversity in our teas.

2. Food is critical for the microorganisms so that they can reproduce and grow in numbers. The goal is to maximize your output of beneficial biology without giving the bacteria and fungi too much food that they over-replicate and cause the tea to go anaerobic. It's important that dissolved oxygen levels stay above 6 mg/l during the entire brewing cycle. There are many different recipes out there, each of which will give you different biology in the end and some are much better than others. It is important to see the lab results of the recipe you use to make sure that you are indeed maximizing your final product.

3. Oxygen! If you're not getting enough oxygen in your brew, then your tea will go anaerobic and you will start brewing the "bad" organisms (pathogens such as e.coli or root feeding nematodes) that may have existed in your original compost. If your tea has enough oxygen and stays aerobic for the entire brew cycle, what you'll have at the end will be the good biology that you want for your plants.

In addition to these variables, other things to consider are elevation, temperature, brewing time, and water quality. All of these variables can have a significant impact on your final tea. With significant elevation, you may need to increase the brewing time, due to the lower oxygen content in the air. With high temperatures, where the water temps are 90 degrees or above, you'll want to shorten the brewing cycle and possibly cut back on the foods you're using. In cold temps., you'll want to increase the brewing cycle to give the organisms time to reproduce. In regards to water quality, different sources will have different mineral or chemical content, which will affect your final tea. In the case of chlorine or chloramines, these chemicals will need to be removed prior to adding the compost to the brewer.

In next month's article, I'll be discussing application rates, recipes, basic pointers, and common mistakes people make when building a brewer or in making AACT. If you have any questions or comments, feel free to email me at tad@simplici-tea.com.

credit: MM
1 gallon = 16 cups = 256 tablespoons

2.38% by volume compost or vermicompost (EWC) per gallon = .38 cups or around half a cup max or about 2 cups in 5 gallons max.

0.5 to 0.75% molasses by volume per gallon = 1.28 to 1.92 tablespoons per gallon. 0.75% is the maximum I use. It is a good bacterial and fungal food.

0.063% fish hydrolysate by volume per gallon = 0.16 tablespoon = 0.479 teaspoons or half a teaspoon

0.25% (max) kelpmeal by volume per gallon = 0.64 tablespoon or half a tablespoon
 

NightbirdX

Well-Known Member
Same here, very close at least. If the yellowing goes too fast I'll use a little more vega and less flores. Are you using any calmag?
I actually added GO CaMg+ to my lineup in veg and it started to burn my plants. I was on the really low end of everything too. 5ml Vega, 2.5ml Cannazym, 2.5ml Rhizo, 2.5 ml Hi Brix Molasses, and 2.5 ml of CaMg. I added pH'd water after 3 days and they started to clear up. I think I am just going to dose them with CaMg before they go into Flowering and am going to alternate every other watering with Cannazyme/Rhizotonic and a lower dose of Vega. Not really sold on those 2. My roots are vigorous and clean though. I think the Cannazyme is the only thing not Veganic about my grow. I heard the CaMg isn't also, but it specifically says on there that it is veganic. I think all the additives I have been putting in are causing all my problems, which is why I am going to just focus on the vega and add in the supplementals at a specific time.

Something like:

Veg:
Week 1: 5ml Vega
Week 2: 5ml Vega, 2.5 Cannazyme, 2.5 Rhizo
Week 3: 7.5ml Vega
Week 4: 5ml Vega, 5ml Molasses, 2.5ml CaMg

Flower:
Week 5: 10 ml Vega
Week 6: 2.5ml Vega, 2.5ml Flores, 5ml Cannazyme, 5ml Rhizotonic
Week 7: 10 ml Flores, 5ml BioBoost
Week 8: 5 ml Flores, 5ml Bio Boost, 5ml CaMg, 5ml Molasses
Week 9-11: 10ml Flores, 10ml BioBoost, 5ml Molasses
Week 12: Continue with Feed or Begin Flush
Week 13: Begin Flush if not started

This is just a rough approximation of what I will do. This is my starting place. I plan on only growing Sour OG in one spot and Jack Herer in another so I will be able to fine tune the feeding on these and see how they react. I also plan on just doing 1 plant according to what the BioCanna feeding chart tells me, to see if things will go down like last time, and I burn the piss out of my plants. Any recommendations anyone?
 

NLNo5

Active Member
Dude, recommend washing your hands after handling plants and soil regardless of the vegan bs.

Some tips i've learned along the way (3 vegan runs complete):
- feed heavy, supplementation will be needed for advanced gardeners
- brew microbe teas, low NPK so no worries
- feed microbes, in the brewer and in the soil.
- IMHO and according to the microscope, BioBoost cuts flower time 3 to 10 days depending of course.
- feed all mixed nutes asap and flush your res/hoses/wand or whatever you top feed with
- oh yeah, top feed the bio canna line. too thick to drip or flood/drain.
- don't flush until the last week or two. no residues from veganics.
- no worries with a vegan garden. don't have to wash hands after, non-toxic nutes!
- also, if in the budget, the BioBoost can be used in small amounts at any time after flipping.
 

dwrd

Member
Hey Matt, all the information you provided about "veganics" convinced me so I decided to make the switch to veganics for the next round! I have everything I need but soil. Your instructions say to try and use Bt plus soil but I was considering using OMRI certified Black Gold Potting Soil (0.05-0.0-0.0). Do you think this could substitute the BT soil?
 

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
Hey Matt, all the information you provided about "veganics" convinced me so I decided to make the switch to veganics for the next round! I have everything I need but soil. Your instructions say to try and use Bt plus soil but I was considering using OMRI certified Black Gold Potting Soil (0.05-0.0-0.0). Do you think this could substitute the BT soil?
Yes. A true soil, like the black gold should work great. You will want to mix it with something airy, like light warrior, or even just some perlite.
 

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
I actually added GO CaMg+ to my lineup in veg and it started to burn my plants. I was on the really low end of everything too. 5ml Vega, 2.5ml Cannazym, 2.5ml Rhizo, 2.5 ml Hi Brix Molasses, and 2.5 ml of CaMg. I added pH'd water after 3 days and they started to clear up. I think I am just going to dose them with CaMg before they go into Flowering and am going to alternate every other watering with Cannazyme/Rhizotonic and a lower dose of Vega. Not really sold on those 2. My roots are vigorous and clean though. I think the Cannazyme is the only thing not Veganic about my grow. I heard the CaMg isn't also, but it specifically says on there that it is veganic. I think all the additives I have been putting in are causing all my problems, which is why I am going to just focus on the vega and add in the supplementals at a specific time.

Something like:

Veg:
Week 1: 5ml Vega
Week 2: 5ml Vega, 2.5 Cannazyme, 2.5 Rhizo
Week 3: 7.5ml Vega
Week 4: 5ml Vega, 5ml Molasses, 2.5ml CaMg

Flower:
Week 5: 10 ml Vega
Week 6: 2.5ml Vega, 2.5ml Flores, 5ml Cannazyme, 5ml Rhizotonic
Week 7: 10 ml Flores, 5ml BioBoost
Week 8: 5 ml Flores, 5ml Bio Boost, 5ml CaMg, 5ml Molasses
Week 9-11: 10ml Flores, 10ml BioBoost, 5ml Molasses
Week 12: Continue with Feed or Begin Flush
Week 13: Begin Flush if not started

This is just a rough approximation of what I will do. This is my starting place. I plan on only growing Sour OG in one spot and Jack Herer in another so I will be able to fine tune the feeding on these and see how they react. I also plan on just doing 1 plant according to what the BioCanna feeding chart tells me, to see if things will go down like last time, and I burn the piss out of my plants. Any recommendations anyone?
Hey, great post. I'm actually ditching the cannazyme and rhizo. Neither are organic, although the rhizo isn't too bad. Still usign the hygrozyme. The feed charts are way heavy in my experience. Also, Ive been using Vega way into flower, and adding PK via 0-10-0 (soft rock phos) and kelp.

Are you doing teas? I've been doing a feed-tea-feed-tea-feed-tea ect thing to help digest all the nutes I pour on.

You may have been overdoing the CalMag. That has chelated Iron, which can burn easily. And you are also providing Cal/Mag via the molasses.
 

NightbirdX

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the reply man. I tell you what, I have been eying that Rhizo and Cannazyme. Prob not going to buy it again. I was thinking about going to hygrozyme also. I also supplement some Nitrozyme in a foliar feed.

I am still working on the teas. That is my next step. I have been having to add just pH water every other week recently to deal with the burn issues. So doing a tea every other week actually sounds like something I might implement on the feedings when I need to back off of the nutes.

I was going to ween them off the vega at week 4, but I still have a bit of green left in the leaves, so I'm going with cutting it out at week 7. I am going to only be growing Jack Herer and Sour OG exclusively for the time being, so I will really be able to fine tune the feedings for the plants.

Thanks for the tip about the Molasses and CaMg, you prob saved me a bunch of time trouble shooting.
 
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