Veganics Cheat sheet

Samizdat

New Member
I use Vegamatrix. It's not "100%" organic because there a couple percent of stabilizers there because it's a shelf stable product. It's nothing crazy that I really worry about. The big selling point is for those who use it legit as medicine because products grown with vegamatrix (or veganic in general) test in the parts per billion when it comes to heavy metals and that's important for patients.

it will ALWAYS be better to cook your own nutes, but for those of us who got other shit going on I do like pre-bottled veganic nutrients.
 

Jared Cox

Well-Known Member
Are people actually getting results doing this? I don't really understand veganics - as there is always going to be microbial life dying in the soil, even if you are super sterile, there will always be some sort of life dying from the water or air put in.
 

GrowerGoneWild

Well-Known Member
Are people actually getting results doing this? I don't really understand veganics - as there is always going to be microbial life dying in the soil, even if you are super sterile, there will always be some sort of life dying from the water or air put in.
Kyle Kushman has been winning cups with his veganic approach. That seems to indicate high quality of his flowers.

The point is not to use manures, or animal products, use plant based composts to feed. In fact the application of composts depends on raw material. Manures and are to be applied in a shallower layer vs plant based composts that can be applied heavier and thicker. Manure based fertilizers are know to cause sodic problems to soil when applied too heavily.

Manures, proteins, animal products. are not nearly as broken down as items in a traditional hot compost pile, or a vermicompost pile. Vermicompost is also loaded with microbes, enzymes, and polysaccharides that make PK easier to absorb by plants.

Lastly the smell, I do not like the smell of liquid fish products or blood meal. Outdoors its not so much a problem, indoors it is, mainly fish products, when I water 50-100 plants a day it smells terrible.
 

SageFromZen

Well-Known Member
Anyone have any thoughts on the o.g. ( old school growers) line call veganic special sauce? Looks good to me, just curious.
I first obtained the OG Tea VSS as an Emerald Cup sample in 2016 that I used last year(2017). I liked it enough that I purchased a bag for use this season. It can work side by side with whatever nutrient regiment you're using. Last year I used it mixed in with FoxFarm Big Bloom on a Mendo Grapefruit Kush that just turned out terpy as all get-out.

I am using it differently this year. I filled up a 5 gallon bucket of stinging nettle leaves and borage leaves and flowers and using a pair of garden sheers I cut everything up. Add pure water, put a lid on it and let it sit for two weeks in a cool dark place until all vegetable matter has rotten and sunk to the bottom. Strainer out the vegetable matter and bottle it.

So at a rate of one cup of the "green nettle and borage gack" in my two gallon watering can I also add a teaspoon of VSS and fill the rest of the way with pure water and stir well. I let it sit about a half an hour for a reaction to take place and then water my plants with that. They perk and leaves point straight to the sky happy as shit every other watering when they get it. The guy at my local hydro shop can't keep it on the shelves and I'm not advertising. I went in there on four different occasions to pick some up on it's delivery date and if it wasn't being transfered to their sister store somebody bought em' up before I got there.

It's doing something right.
 

SageFromZen

Well-Known Member

Ecompost

Well-Known Member
That's not a "FACT". Plants can and do uptake animal waste, but most plants in the wild derive their sustenance from leaf litter and other dead/decaying plant matter.
hmm I am going to debate this in light of insects and microbes. Where is the line where waste is considered and what is an animal if not an insect or arthropod? How much of the leaf material on a forest floor also contains traces of insect waste and how much is pure leaf?
How much microbial waste is consumed by plants? Plants cant eat leaves right, these need to be composted and reduced to ions? So isnt this actually the ever decreasing waste of ever shrinking animals/ organisms?

Ergo I propose the initial premise is correct and vegans must face the reality they eat insect shit or even animals at times?
It has been said that the reason many vegans are deficient in B12 is because the wash the plants before they consume them and so wash away the microbe covered insect waste, which is actually one of the best bits, eg containing the vital B12 Cobalt required to regulate cell integrity.
To me, plants and the animals/ organisms around them contribute to the sum total nutrient value for us
 

Ecompost

Well-Known Member
If veganic just means organic minus animal products... why would you care unless you're outdoor and trying not to attract critters with say blood meal or fish hydrolysate? Can someone please explain the benefit of this method for your typical indoor medical grower?
the funny thing is, those critters and what not are sign posts telling you whats wrong typically. its all some code and its hard for lots of us to understand and so benefit from the opportunities of adversity
I use Vegamatrix. It's not "100%" organic because there a couple percent of stabilizers there because it's a shelf stable product. It's nothing crazy that I really worry about. The big selling point is for those who use it legit as medicine because products grown with vegamatrix (or veganic in general) test in the parts per billion when it comes to heavy metals and that's important for patients.

it will ALWAYS be better to cook your own nutes, but for those of us who got other shit going on I do like pre-bottled veganic nutrients.
wouldnt he get stability via fermentation?
 

Ecompost

Well-Known Member
Kyle Kushman has been winning cups with his veganic approach. That seems to indicate high quality of his flowers.

The point is not to use manures, or animal products, use plant based composts to feed. In fact the application of composts depends on raw material. Manures and are to be applied in a shallower layer vs plant based composts that can be applied heavier and thicker. Manure based fertilizers are know to cause sodic problems to soil when applied too heavily.

Manures, proteins, animal products. are not nearly as broken down as items in a traditional hot compost pile, or a vermicompost pile. Vermicompost is also loaded with microbes, enzymes, and polysaccharides that make PK easier to absorb by plants.

Lastly the smell, I do not like the smell of liquid fish products or blood meal. Outdoors its not so much a problem, indoors it is, mainly fish products, when I water 50-100 plants a day it smells terrible.
i dont know about all of this, lots of compost is 24:1, lots of manure is far lower C/N and so available faster no?

I think the point of compost is sustainable fertility overtime. Manures are a bit quicker to be spent, its more volatile and so can cause overdosing, leading to pests and problems, and often manures contain a reduced list of microbes, esp before its properly composted itself, and so we could argue manures have less overall benefit alone, but when combined as compost, or additionally bokashi fermented, as in the case of my nutrients, they are better through greater diversity.

Any organics like manures over done can cause all sorts of stability problems, not least with Potassium, Boron, Manganese and so on, but with pests, pathogens and the environment too.

As growers of organics in a world where access to data is more inclusive, perhaps we need to better understand how each and any input changes the microbial ratios and so again has consequences for our plants that we might need to note.

What we also need to acknowledge is, how organic is a product that has come from synthetically grow grasses fed to a cows drugged with antibiotics whose shit we then use?
Kushman is at least trying to reduce the farce of many so called labeled organic products, who use manures from synthetic fed cattle and animals, but shit its expensive his solution and of course it still week 1 do this, week 2 do this. Honesty this is the great fraud but its something the community demands, this i can tell you first hand.
I think people ought to learn about growth makers and learn how to properly feed plants and not just run off a guide made to sell more stuff, which you may or may not need on week blah.

Also what fish products have you been using? I make one that dont stink the place up, perhaps its the products and process to make them that has tarnished your experience?
 

Ecompost

Well-Known Member
You might also have a read over this article. it covers the use of various inputs and describes the impacts on microbial populations there after. Its a rice based article so of course if not the same as growing MJ, but never the less, it offers some insights reference how what we use to grow MJ can impact the overall balance, or not, of our soil ecology.
https://scialert.net/fulltext/?doi=ja.2010.102.110&org=11

for a more focused discussion on a specific input, Chitin, since i have seen mentioned in this thread, see here. Its heavy academic stuff, but if you can wade through it, you should find value or understanding that might inform choices moving forwards

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3835784/

and to bring it right home, you may also enjoy this read
Understanding Cultivar-Specificity and Soil Determinants of the Cannabis Microbiome
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0099641
 
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