Very Pale and Thin new growth

Hi there, Large plant pictured has been in veg for 4-5 wks. We are growing in ProMix AND 5 gal pots. Using Floranova Grow and feeding every watering, usually every 3-4 days depending on need. This particular plant is a Big Buddha Cheese and was quite healthy until a few days ago. All new growing shoots are extremely pale and thin. Ohhh, PH is checked very regularly and is kept under 7. We are using well water which has a beginning ppm of 330 right now. Checked the soil and it is 6.5. Temps are 70-74 and humidity is 55%. Most of the plants in the room are showing signs of this. There is a variety of age and strain. The smaller plant pictured is Thai Light and was grown from seed. It has only been in strong veg growth for a couple weeks barely. Any input is GREATLY appreciated!! I have never posted before, just do a lot of reading on here to educate myself. Thanks in advance for any advice to help figure this out.

do you have good air exchange in your room? the cupping and fanning of the edges in your leafs in pic 8 could be from your plants trying to cool and breath. I use pro mix HP in 5 gal and water half gallon every day and every day it will dry back out. not completely sure on the new grow tho. but this will bump it up to see if you get a answer

how big is the pot?

if the Pot is 1 gallon, only expect for it to be able to handle 1 gallon of plant matter. Red stems is also a Sign that they arn;t getting something from the roots, either N or MG.

i would say transplant it into a bigger pot, water it with more water less often and fix the N/MG def and you should be good.

Corbat420 said:

how big is the pot?

if the Pot is 1 gallon, only expect for it to be able to handle 1 gallon of plant matter. Red stems is also a Sign that they arn;t getting something from the roots, either N or MG.

i would say transplant it into a bigger pot, water it with more water less often and fix the N/MG def and you should be good.

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it says promix in 5 gal. I couldn't imagine needing more room then that

Amy G said:

Any input is GREATLY appreciated!! I have never posted before, just do a lot of reading on here to educate myself. Thanks in advance for any advice to help figure this out.

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+ rep for educating yourself before posting a bunch of already continually asked questions! I like it when people try to learn on their own and seek help when they actually need it... it's called problem solving!

Budist said:

it says promix in 5 gal. I couldn't imagine needing more room then that

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xD i totally missed that... even after you said it i had to read it twice to find it

on their own and seek help when they actually need it... it's called problem solving!

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I couldn't agree more. there are WAY to many people who come on here and expect us to grow it for them.....

EDIT: WAIT WAIT WAIT, back it up a moment here....

feeding every watering, usually every 3-4 days depending on need

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that is a very BAD idea. especially with Hydro nutes. the Salts in the soils will build up and eventually start hurting the plants..... such as the pale top growth.

The plant needs to be flushed...

http://www.weedfarmer.com/cannabis/tables_guide.php <- for deficiency's

try just well water mate, they shouldnt need feeding every watering.

i want to lean towards moisture probs. (assuming your mix still has dolomite in it and the ph really is 6.5)
Everything else seems fine. it looks as if you are feeding a tiny bit too much and/or the roots are staying too wet.

food is good
soil is alright
ph is good
rh is good
temps are good


so i will go with over watered.

something is slowing the uptake of N in the big plant. is it too close to the light ? it definatly looks like it could be light bleaching , but then so does a lot of stuff.
I also dont like the idea of "older plants" in promix. when the lime runs out , your stuck with a very low ph , and you have to add something to keep the ph in check. Now, not everyone has this prob with promix , it all depends on your species , environment, food , ect... (example: in a very biologically active promix , the lime will get used a lot faster then when your mix is less "alive")
As long as that added lime in there is still present , the lime will buffer the mix to a good range, when the lime gets used up , you have to add more to keep the ph up. (thats why i said i dont like older plants in promix, cause the smaller ones usally wont use up all the lime in their lifetime)

my recommendation is to let them dry real good and dont feed anything for two or three waterings. thats the best thing for them right now. then go back to your regular diet , but pay real good attention the the moisture levels. peat moss retains water very well.




soil

wyteboi said:

i want to lean towards moisture probs. (assuming your mix still has dolomite in it and the ph really is 6.5)
Everything else seems fine. it looks as if you are feeding a tiny bit too much and/or the roots are staying too wet.

food is good
soil is alright
ph is good
rh is good
temps are good


so i will go with over watered.

something is slowing the uptake of N in the big plant. is it too close to the light ? it definatly looks like it could be light bleaching , but then so does a lot of stuff.
I also dont like the idea of "older plants" in promix. when the lime runs out , your stuck with a very low ph , and you have to add something to keep the ph in check. Now, not everyone has this prob with promix , it all depends on your species , environment, food , ect... (example: in a very biologically active promix , the lime will get used a lot faster then when your mix is less "alive")
As long as that added lime in there is still present , the lime will buffer the mix to a good range, when the lime gets used up , you have to add more to keep the ph up. (thats why i said i dont like older plants in promix, cause the smaller ones usally wont use up all the lime in their lifetime)

my recommendation is to let them dry real good and dont feed anything for two or three waterings. thats the best thing for them right now. then go back to your regular diet , but pay real good attention the the moisture levels. peat moss retains water very well.




soil

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The first pics show much smaller containers, so I'm assuming they were transplanted after the pics were taken. You touched upon light bleach, and upon reviewing the photos almost all the leaves are taco folded...indicating heat stress. One of the pics shows a lower fan leaf that looks light toasted across an entire outer edge.

To the Thread Author:

When you transplanted, did you notice any circular root formation on the bottom?. I use those same sized containers from seed, and you went 2 weeks longer than I normally do prior to upsizing. So, I'm thinking perhaps initial root bound combined w/heat stress and too much H2O...not a good combo. I see outdoor sunlight in a few of your pics as well. If you can get them outdoors on sunny days, that always helps. I use it as my make-shift plant infirmary during warm months when I have slow growers etc.

Edit: And as mentioned I would reduce feeding schedule.

cheers!

wyteboi said:

i want to lean towards moisture probs. (assuming your mix still has dolomite in it and the ph really is 6.5)
Everything else seems fine. it looks as if you are feeding a tiny bit too much and/or the roots are staying too wet.

food is good
soil is alright
ph is good
rh is good
temps are good


so i will go with over watered.

something is slowing the uptake of N in the big plant. is it too close to the light ? it definatly looks like it could be light bleaching , but then so does a lot of stuff.
I also dont like the idea of "older plants" in promix. when the lime runs out , your stuck with a very low ph , and you have to add something to keep the ph in check. Now, not everyone has this prob with promix , it all depends on your species , environment, food , ect... (example: in a very biologically active promix , the lime will get used a lot faster then when your mix is less "alive")
As long as that added lime in there is still present , the lime will buffer the mix to a good range, when the lime gets used up , you have to add more to keep the ph up. (thats why i said i dont like older plants in promix, cause the smaller ones usally wont use up all the lime in their lifetime)

my recommendation is to let them dry real good and dont feed anything for two or three waterings. thats the best thing for them right now. then go back to your regular diet , but pay real good attention the the moisture levels. peat moss retains water very well.




soil

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how long do you think the lime lasts in pro mix?? maybe I should look into getting a bag of it...

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. The small plant in the pics is in a 1 gal pot. It was transplanted from a solo cup a couple weeks ago. As soon as it is settled in nicely with a good root base it will go in a 5 gal pot to finish out. As far as overwatering goes... I never water until soil is completely dry. I give a gallon at a time (for 5 gal pots) They are usually dry in 3-4 days depending on plant size but if not dry I wait until they are . During veg I have always fed every time. I start at a low dose of nutes and slowly build up to the 2tsp/gal max. Have always used floranova exclusively. This worked fine for about 4 gardens. A couple of gardens ago we got about 6 weeks into veg and this same type of problem occured to all the plants. Tried flushing and everything imagineable to no avail. We ended up hacking everything. A couple plants we tried to save for the heck of it produced the craziest looking buds. They had no hairs and were a solid mass that didnt resemble as normal bud in anyway shape or form. After much research and advice we came to the conclusion that we had bad nutes. The reasoning was because the aeroponic table we were growing had the same problem also. The tables use RO water only and the soil plants we used well water. The only common variable was the nutes.

Sooooo, we started over. Bought new bottles of nutes, got all new plants and low and behold a few weeks later the plants go from looking fantastic to crap in a few days. By the way, we changed nothing in the way we grow. Trust me I have given this so much thought my brain is fried!! Every one has asked if we are doing anything different from before. No we havent changed anything!! lol We were asked when this happended again about the PH. We had not been checking out ph regularly. We checked our water initially and it was great and we were told not to worry about it. We have had many successful grows not checking the ph ever! Before you gasp, We do now!! My point is we thought that maybe our ph was out of wack and causing lockout. Well that wasnt it either.
Also lights are kept approx 3 feet from the plants during veg. (1000w HPS) LIghts are vented with fans to help with heat. Have fresh air exchange.

I have spent hours reading books and online and cannot find anything that resembles this except boron def.. We have a huge support system in our area and no one has ever seen anything like this. Which is why I am reaching out to you all. I think we are getting lockout but cant figure out why. I did take these pic in the natural daylight so you could get a good look at the coloring. We are in the process of having out water tested. Wont know results for a couple weeks. In the meantime we are going to flush them and switch to RO water. We have no pest problems.

Also I started a aeroponic table that is 4 weeks into bloom right now using same lights, same nutes, RO water, same conditions without any problems.

Thank you soooo much for reading this and if you have thoughts or ideas pleeeeeeeease pass them on.

nice! a prob no one can figure out ..... that what i thrive for!


let me re read ........


be back... soil

Budist said:

how long do you think the lime lasts in pro mix?? maybe I should look into getting a bag of it...

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it greatly depends on how alive your soil is. if your using nothing but chems to feed , then the lime will last a longer time. If your using organics an breeding microbes in your mix then the lime will get used up quick. and its a big range in between. i would guess anywhere from 2 or 3 weeks to 6 months or more !

then of course you have to wonder how much lime they actually put in the bag.
promix is a huge company so my guess is that they keep the mix the same with every bag. they have a huge fanbase so i would say they are pretty consistent with their mix.

i think they design it to last around 6 months with regular house plants. (just a guess from using it)



soil

ok , so you went from floranova to what ?


get some lime and work it into the top of the pots and maybe add a mulch on top of that so it will break down faster. before i even get into all the mess of questions , im gonna say the lime in your mix is getting used up too quick and your ph is too low. and it is causing a minor lockout.

before you keep digging for answers , top dress with some dolomitic lime and while thats doing its thing , you can keep reading and hunting.
i was re-reading your posts an it just hit me like a ton of bricks.

(also it is not possible to test ph accurately without a lab, period. you can test water an nutes , but when it comes to soil , you can only get close , but not close enough to troubleshoot)

soil

I know those girls were enjoyed years ago but for learning purposes this is my opinion. 1 gallon not enough water for 5 gal pot. It takes about 1.5 gallons to start seeing runoff if completely dry. U need at least 15% runoff to properly avoid salt build up. Which is what is causing the thin twisted growth imo.