Vote for Ron Paul-----Great idea

Dan Kone said:

That's rhetoric, not reality. Government spending as a percentage of GDP is only a couple of percentage points higher than it was under conservative hero, Reagan.

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Since government spending is a PART OF GDP, for every dollar the Gov't spends a dollar is added to the GDP. Wasn't done that way in Reagan's era. Makes the spending as a Percent of GDP meaningless since it will never change no matter how much they spend.

Dan Kone said:

And the founders intended on it being a living document. Ron Paul wants us to have a government based on what life was like in the 18th century. No thank you.

You guys hide behind one very strict interpretation of the constitution. Just because I interpret the constitution differently than you does not make you pro-constitution and me anti-constitution. That's just silly. I see the constitution as a living document. I think we should proceed based on the intent of the constitution. You think we should live based on a code that was meant to apply to life in the 18th century.

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Ah, there it is. Finally, one of you has said it. The Constitution is a living document and as such, is open to interpretation. Again, a perfect example of indoctrination via government run school system.
I would like to know where it says the Constitution is a living document. Where is that intent written? Where did the framers tell the future generations that it is alright to interpret our most fundamental law any way you wish?
If that was their intent, then why didn't they just say it?
"We hold these truths to be self evident... except if at a later period in time some who do not care for individual liberty and do not want to be responsible for themselves, lie to themselves to interpret these truths differently."
Now before you start trying to gloat about that (We hold these truths to be self evident) not being in the Constitution but from the Declaration of Independence, I know that. You KNOW what I mean. Show me in ANY documents the Founding Fathers made that proves your claim that the Constitution is a "living" document.

Besides, what was so bad about the 18th century? People were being oppressed by elitists (just like today) and the rag-tag colonists stood up to the largest empire in the world and said "No more, we are free men". When King George tried to "force" them back into submission do you think "compromise" was in their vocabulary? Even though they were outmanned and outgunned, facing the largest battle tested force on the planet? I WISH we had more patriots like that today.
They were free to conduct business and earn a living for their families. They helped the less fortunate through charity. They kept their noses out of other people's affairs. They held their elected officials accountable. They actively participated in governing.
Nobody is hiding behind anything. Yes, I am pro Constitution and you are anti Constitution. There is no way to spin that around. I'm not going to fall for that bs.
I think we should proceed on the intent of the Constitution, you want to change the meaning of it.
Freedom/Liberty is the same no matter what era of time we are in. That does not change.
You talk about the wisdom to change your mind when confronted with contrary facts, I have... you however, would rather continue stumbling along in your false beliefs, rather than admit that you're wrong.
Every accusation fired at me; brainwashed, stubborn adherence to false doctrine, repeating other's words instead of thinking for myself, blindly following an idea drilled into me by another, et al... is a description of you and those that think like you, not me.
Like beardo said, why change your mind when you're right?

no no lets just say screw the constition and put our lives in the hands of the douschebag with the most money to pay for the election, A person that we have in fact never met, A person that is just as much a puppet for the elites as you or I will soon find ourselves. Lets all become slaves to our government an entity which is not human and does not have the best interest of humans but the interest of money. I would lay my life for my country but not for a douche bag I never met, especially a douche bag that is not even a real human, a douche bag that had no regard for human life, lets do it me and you dane - abolish the Constitution - on with tyranny - on with the police state. HOORAH

londonfog said:

and I guess you really think you are MR.Neutron....too funny...see a smart and wise man would know why I have that on this type of website,but not the fool...too easy

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You honestly think that having that as your signature is really going to protect you from Johnny Law?

I've always wondered at what people were thinking with that line in their sigs...

Mr Neutron said:

Ah, there it is. Finally, one of you has said it. The Constitution is a living document and as such, is open to interpretation. Again, a perfect example of indoctrination via government run school system.

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Yes. But what you're not getting is that your interpretation isn't the only one. It isn't even the one the majority or any supreme court in the last 100 years has agreed with. You're acting is if your fringe opinions about the Constitution are the only correct interpretation, and everyone who does not agree with you is ignoring the constitution. That is complete nonsense.

I would like to know where it says the Constitution is a living document. Where is that intent written? Where did the framers tell the future generations that it is alright to interpret our most fundamental law any way you wish?
If that was their intent, then why didn't they just say it?

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Show me in ANY documents the Founding Fathers made that proves your claim that the Constitution is a "living" document.

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Are you really disputing that? lol

James Madison said:

I entirely concur in the propriety of resorting to the sense in which the Constitution was accepted and ratified by the nation. In that sense alone it is the legitimate Constitution. And if that is not the guide in expounding it, there may be no security for a consistent and stable, more than for a faithful exercise of its powers. If the meaning of the text be sought in the changeable meaning of the words composing it, it is evident that the shape and attributes of the Government must partake of the changes to which the words and phrases of all living languages are constantly subject. What a metamorphosis would be produced in the code of law if all its ancient phraseology were to be taken in its modern sense.

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Thomas Jefferson said:

I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions, but laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors

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And you want to take all the words in the constitution and use them in the exact opposite way the founders intended, then brand people who disagree with you as ignoring the constitution. How Ironic.

The founding fathers goal wan't to keep us living in a society with 18th century infrastructure. It just wasn't.

If the intent of the founding fathers isn't enough for you then is the bill of rights?

preamble to the bill of rights said:

RESOLVED by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, two thirds of both Houses concurring, that the following Articles be proposed to the Legislatures of the several States, as amendments to the Constitution of the United States, all, or any of which Articles, when ratified by three fourths of the said Legislatures, to be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of the said Constitution; viz.
ARTICLES in addition to, and Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America, proposed by Congress, and ratified by the Legislatures of the several States, pursuant to the fifth Article of the original Constitution.[

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Good enough?

Besides, what was so bad about the 18th century?

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Nothing. But power plants, factories, the stock market, ak47's, cars, global economics, nuclear missiles, sub-prime mortgages, the internet, etc did not exist then.

You can't just pretend that anything that came around after the 18th century didn't exist.

I was watching an episode of Decoded on the History channel, the one where they were trying to find the cornerstone to the White House. They said it was possible there was a second Constitution hidden inside, put away for a future date. It was supposed to be a constitution designed for a more urbane society, whereas the original we run off of was for a more agrarian society. Please note, Decoded is by NO MEANS meant to be taken literally. I believe the show is full of conspiracy theory and bs. Just using this as an example...

So what do you think? Do you think perhaps that our current constitution could be too outdated for our current society? I'm liking where this conversation about the constitution is going.

NoDrama said:

You honestly think that having that as your signature is really going to protect you from Johnny Law?

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who knows...but why does my sig bother you ???? do I complain about you wanting to set yourself on fire..geezzz find a better argument guy...you acting like that DramaQueen again

londonfog said:

who knows...but why does my sig bother you ???? do I complain about you wanting to set yourself on fire..geezzz find a better argument guy...you acting like that DramaQueen again

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I didn't bring it up. It has never bothered me I just think its funny that you would act like it is the difference between you getting busted and having plausible denial that it was all just made up. The little charade isn't fooling anyone.

Boonierat said:

So what do you think? Do you think perhaps that our current constitution could be too outdated for our current society? I'm liking where this conversation about the constitution is going.

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it is a good conversation, and relevant to a thread about a supposed constitutionalist like paul.

hope to hear what others have to say.

NoDrama said:

I didn't bring it up. It has never bothered me I just think its funny that you would act like it is the difference between you getting busted and having plausible denial that it was all just made up. The little charade isn't fooling anyone.

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guy I'm in a State where I'm good...I also give advice to people who may not be...again why does it bother you to mention it??? Not trying to fool anyone, but nor I'm I going to post a sig saying "10 pounds every month"...and always remember a good lawyer and you having something he can fight with just might win your case or have them leave you the phuck alone...now again stop acting like a bytch azz DramaQueen... people like you helped bring "overgrow" down...

londonfog said:

guy I'm in a State where I'm good...I also give advice to people who may not be...again why does it bother you to mention it??? Not trying to fool anyone, but nor I'm I going to post a sig saying "10 pounds every month"...and always remember a good lawyer and you having something he can fight with just might win your case or have them leave you the phuck alone...now again stop acting like a bytch azz DramaQueen... people like you helped bring "overgrow" down...

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I just told you it doesn't bother me, you have a hard time understanding the written word? Dyslexia can be a bitch.

Overgrow was shut down because the Owner ( Richard Boucher) war raided and charged with Possession and trafficking. It had nothing to do with people who had opinions.

NoDrama said:

I just told you it doesn't bother me, you have a hard time understanding the written word? Dyslexia can be a bitch.

Overgrow was shut down because the Owner ( Richard Boucher) war raided and charged with Possession and trafficking. It had nothing to do with people who had opinions.

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If $hit don't bother me I don't bring it up nor talk about it...so why you do...Phuckers hating on a sig on a weed forum what the phuck RIU turned into..

i like turtles.

I will never vote for a republican, only reason i vote democrat is to cancel out a republican vote, both parties are corrupt but dems are progressives and im anti-conservative. sory Ron, you could be the best guy alive and best for the position, and i know you arent, but even if you were, were you to go republican i'd know you went vader on me. therefore no vote.

EDIT: unless you go Independent and have jesse ventura a your VP then i dont see myself voting Ron Paul.

ok Unclebuck back on topic I go....ummmm Ron Paul no

londonfog said:

If $hit don't bother me I don't bring it up nor talk about it...so why you do...Phuckers hating on a sig on a weed forum what the phuck RIU turned into..

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I didn't bring it up, how many times does that have to be said before it sinks into your thick skull?

Turtles cause unhealthy salmonella problems. I kinda like them too.

Turtles remix....

[video=youtube;A0XXmVts1y0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0XXmVts1y0[/video]

i like turtles.

Ron Paul
Audit the Fed
"No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility."

NoDrama said:

You honestly think that having that as your signature is really going to protect you from Johnny Law?

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DramaQueen is this not you bringing it up...WTF....