Was jesus real?

awesome. Another question I want answers to is what were the criteria for pickiing the books that make up the Bible. I know that there are other books I have a lot more research to do on this subject. But why does the Christian faith have to be based on these books and why aren't the other books taught. The only thing I want to understand is that Christians just believe. They never question the faith. Why not question the faith? Isn't faith supported by evidence? That's the same as believing someone is guilty of a crime without weighing the evidence before hand. The Bible is not evidence. Why weren't the Gospels written as Jesus lived...instead of years later? Why didn't Jesus write the New Testament. He was God according to Catholics...then why didn't he just write it. He knew Judas was going to betray him...and that was his apostle. Why wouldn't authors of the book get it wrong too? Why aren't these questions being asked? Why blind faith? WHY?

My apologies, the lost books of the bible, i believe.

Child Jesus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Most modern Christians are not aware of the early history of the Christian church, as opposed to the narratives contained in the New Testament. As the new sect expanded beyond the borders of Palestine and took root, especially in Asia Minor, Greece and Egypt, a need for uniform doctrine was felt by early church leaders. This need was first addressed by the Council of Nicaea, convened in 325 by Constantine. This meeting of church leaders attempted to define orthodoxy and thus eliminate heretical or non-authentic beliefs and texts. The result of the Council was the Nicene creed which is the 'mission statement', if you will, of early Christianity and the core of Christian belief today. It is still recited by many denominations. This creed was then used as a tool to examine and confirm or eliminate texts on the basis of their conformity to the creed. This is a wholly inadequate exposition of a very tangled subject. Some of the books Email recommended in an earlier post will help you flesh out this brief intro. Or send you into a absolute welter of confusion!

Miracle Smoke said:

My apologies, the lost books of the bible, i believe.

Child Jesus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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No need to apologize. I'm always amused by the 'lost books' of the bible construct though. Like they slipped down between the couch cushions, lol. It's the early church fathers who deliberately 'lost' them because they did not conform to the church they were trying to regularize. The Infant Gospel of St. Thomas your link refers to is a good example of the kind of text the early church fathers expunged because it contained doctrines which did not conform to orthodoxy for one reason or another. The gospel of Judas, to which I referred earlier, and was not known in modern times until it was discovered in the 1970's is another. We had never seen the text, but there were references to it in the writings of the Early church fathers. Clearly they didn't like so, presto, it's lost.

bobharvey said:

awesome. Another question I want answers to is what were the criteria for pickiing the books that make up the Bible. I know that there are other books I have a lot more research to do on this subject. But why does the Christian faith have to be based on these books and why aren't the other books taught. The only thing I want to understand is that Christians just believe. They never question the faith. Why not question the faith? Isn't faith supported by evidence? That's the same as believing someone is guilty of a crime without weighing the evidence before hand. The Bible is not evidence. Why weren't the Gospels written as Jesus lived...instead of years later? Why didn't Jesus write the New Testament. He was God according to Catholics...then why didn't he just write it. He knew Judas was going to betray him...and that was his apostle. Why wouldn't authors of the book get it wrong too? Why aren't these questions being asked? Why blind faith? WHY?

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You are asking questions that the answers can forever shake your faith. Faith is belief without - or even IN SPITE OF the evidence. Which to me, faith is a terrible, awful, and downright evil thing to consider a virtue. But that is just an opinion of course.

But you are asking several different things and they are all kind of confusing when they are jumbled up like this.

I'm not sure if this is going to add to your confusion or dismay but science isn't out to prove god or jesus or anything exists or doesn't exist. Science merely looks (and so far has found) natural explanations for the world and universe around us. Can science explain everything? No. Does scientific evidence point to the bible as literal truth? No. Quite the opposite in fact.

Again, not to add to your confusion, but here are some more questions for you...
why would an all-knowing, all-powerful God have to correct his mistakes twice? Once with a flood and once by sending his Son to die.

And wouldn't an all-knowing (omniscient) God already know what is going to happen even before he "lets there be light"?

Why would an all-knowing, all-loving God create Evil and let evil loose in the world KNOWING what is going to happen? And why create Man to fail and then punish him for failing?

why would God be jealous of other Gods (ten commandments) if no other Gods exist? and the phrase graven image is used so we are talking about other gods and not substitutes for gods like sex and money.

And why would a God - whose mind we can never know - display a childish human emotion like anger and jealousy anyway?

And why didn't He just forgive us since we are His creation and can only act the way He made us, instead of making his own Son suffer for us - and then make a big deal about it? If you are going to do us a favor, just do it - no thanks is normally necessary. Especially when He didn't even have to lift a finger and just sent his Son to do the dirty work. Some "loving" father, huh?

The two stories that got me questioning my parent's faith (it never really was mine - i didn't pick it), was the story of Moses and the story of Isaac and Abraham. The part in the Moses story that sickened me is when God killed all the first born sons in Egypt to persuade the Pharaoh to "let his people go". Weren't all those newborns God's little creatures or just fodder for his angry tantrums?

The second story is when God commands Abraham to take his first born son Isaac to the top of a mountain and sacrifice him. Abraham is actually going to do it and God steps in at the last minute to save the day and instead father and son sacrifice a black ram that magically appears. OK - first off any father willing to kill their son (or daughter) is disgustingly sick and demented. But following a God that demands blood sacrifice up to and including humans?!? yikes that is one fucking twisted scary story.

I could go on and on and on - but these are the types of questions you ask when you read the bible as the word of god and interpret the text literally. If you read things in the metaphoric and allegoric language that was intended then some of these hate-filled and contradictory items becomes more poetic and some of the stories are actually quite beautiful and touching but many still contain hate, bigotry, racism, and intolerance. Of course, hate, bigotry, racism, and intolerance are recurring themes in any religion (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) based on the torah and subsequent writings.

Shoot2kill66, you are just a complete fucking idiot....and I dont give a rats ass if i get banned for the comment or not. If this is not a topic you can add any CONSTRUCTIVE comments to then by all means,

FUCK OFF!!!

my personal opinion is that jesus is bullshit. I'm not saying that the person named jesus didn't exist, but I don't think that the religious affiliation with "jesus" is correct. the bible is a book, written by someone that wanted to tell a story. personally the bible is just the oldest known fiction book in the world.

gotdamunchies said:

Shoot2kill66, you are just a complete fucking idiot....and I dont give a rats ass if i get banned for the comment or not. If this is not a topic you can add any CONSTRUCTIVE comments to then by all means,

FUCK OFF!!!

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haha, that's fucking great.... I hope you don't consider my comments to be "non- constructive". I'm just giving my personal opinion, no facts behind it, no sources, just thought. My parents raised me as roman catholic.

edit: just wanted to add that being raised roman catholic SUCKED. and I've learned all about the catholic religion, and yet still think it's bullshit.

I had a Catholic priest explain to me once how he believed the bible was written and he used a analogy that was easy for me to understand at the time, since I was only 11....

Imagine a bunch of people sitting in a circle, and if you can imagine the circle being 1000 years long (bear with me)...now pick a starting point and whisper in the ear of person number one and tell that person to pass it on. Now after that message reaches all the way back to where it started, do you think that it will be the same?? We have all done this in school and know that the message is never the same.

The bible was written in the same fashion, by many different people, of many different periods in time. It is a book full of many great stories and ideas, and can be used a great tool in teaching somebody how to live a productive life, be happy, and to treat others with respect when respect is earned. But most of it is not fact and should never be taken as fact. Faith in a all seeing all knowing god is an evil thing that is used to kill more people than we could ever imagine....one true statement that I carry with me is this:

Salvation lies within.

Within yourself, not a book.

gotdamunchies said:

I had a Catholic priest explain to me once how he believed the bible was written and he used a analogy that was easy for me to understand at the time, since I was only 11....

Imagine a bunch of people sitting in a circle, and if you can imagine the circle being 1000 years long (bear with me)...now pick a starting point and whisper in the ear of person number one and tell that person to pass it on. Now after that message reaches all the way back to where it started, do you think that it will be the same?? We have all done this in school and know that the message is never the same.

The bible was written in the same fashion, by many different people, of many different periods in time. It is a book full of many great stories and ideas, and can be used a great tool in teaching somebody how to live a productive life, be happy, and to treat others with respect when respect is earned. But most of it is not fact and should never be taken as fact. Faith in a all seeing all knowing god is an evil thing that is used to kill more people than we could ever imagine....one true statement that I carry with me is this:

Salvation lies within.

Within yourself, not a book.

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that's some good insight, I wish I had priests that could would tell a story like that...

well since the bible wasnt actually put together until the 16th pope or something
i think its hard to know what were missing, people back then wernt even allowd to read the bible, i think jesus was a real man and as a young lad traveled to india and the himilayas to teach and learn , which they over there have scrolls and stories of, jesus may or may not have been the son of god but his teachings have clearly changed the world, and we can thank the church of man for messing the whole story up, i think jesus was an amazing person miracles or not, he represents todays christianity but had a prostitute as one of his close companions, which also wrote a book! i dont too many questions to ask but ill go with martin luthers stance that we all have an individual relationship with god not through the church, and remember who controls the past controls the future, who controls the present controls the past

How do you resolve the existence of a trinity (God, Son and Holy Spirit) in a monotheistic religion? Did God 'create' Jesus? If so, when? Are they equals? How is his divinity different, or the same as God's? Is Jesus a part or spark of God's divinity or all of it? Most Christians believe in one god containing three inseparable parts, but they also believe that the son (Jesus) had two distinct natures, human and divine. Was Jesus merely human until he was baptized and the holy spirit descended on him? or did he partake of both natures simultaneously? Mormons actually believe that the three are distinct and separate yet united in purpose, which sets them at odds with all the rest of Christianity. These perplexing questions exist in many religions, not just Christianity. The early Christian church resolves issues like this by editing out contradictions. It's reasonable that they edited text rather than expunge them entirely to bring them into orthodoxy as well. The question of Jesus' existence is unimportant to me. The texts we have that speak of him suggest to me that he existed. Whether he was a divine god/man is another question which cannot be resolved objectively. Faith and reason will always be in conflict. Many argue there is a middle way, but I do not know what that is. Rambling now. Going to walk the dog.

shnkrmn said:

How do you resolve the existence of a trinity (God, Son and Holy Spirit) in a monotheistic religion? Did God 'create' Jesus? If so, when? Are they equals? How is his divinity different, or the same as God's? Is Jesus a part or spark of God's divinity or all of it? Most Christians believe in one god containing three inseparable parts, but they also believe that the son (Jesus) had two distinct natures, human and divine. Was Jesus merely human until he was baptized and the holy spirit descended on him? or did he partake of both natures simultaneously? Mormons actually believe that the three are distinct and separate yet united in purpose, which sets them at odds with all the rest of Christianity. These perplexing questions exist in many religions, not just Christianity. The early Christian church resolves issues like this by editing out contradictions. It's reasonable that they edited text rather than expunge them entirely to bring them into orthodoxy as well. The question of Jesus' existence is unimportant to me. The texts we have that speak of him suggest to me that he existed. Whether he was a divine god/man is another question which cannot be resolved objectively. Faith and reason will always be in conflict. Many argue there is a middle way, but I do not know what that is. Rambling now. Going to walk the dog.

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I was going to bring this up and then add - guess what the only unforgivable sin is? that's right - denying the holy spirit. So the only unforgivable sin is not believing (or even doubting for an instant) the most unbelievable thing in the whole book!

So if you ever denied the holy spirit (disbelieved that Jesus rose from the dead) then, according to the bible, you are an unforgivable sinner and are heading for the toasty place!

email468 said:

I was going to bring this up and then add - guess what the only unforgivable sin is? that's right - denying the holy spirit. So the only unforgivable sin is not believing (or even doubting for an instant) the most unbelievable thing in the whole book!

So if you ever denied the holy spirit (disbelieved that Jesus rose from the dead) then, according to the bible, you are an unforgivable sinner and are heading for the toasty place!

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yeah pretty much, its sad what modern christianity has turned it into, telling everyone there going to hell for pretty much everything haha shit. did you know there are stories of a young jesus commiting murder?! having children!? i really dont know what to belive anymore but i have seen what christianity has done for some people its wierd ive seen a demon possesd lady that was weird too, i guess i cant deny a power, but my feelings on what i have been taught since i was a wee lad has definantly changed, would god really wish us to be so scared that we are going to go to hell? is that a threat? or a method used to control? what the fuck would jesus say?

dude that picture is a bit extreme

I didn't bother reading every post so sorry if this was already posted. Other than the bible the romans kept records as well, and is pretty much proven that the MAN jesus existed as a person. I'm not accounting the miracles and such, just he was a real man.

Sorry, but that's not true. Please provide your source.

Strider9880 said:

I didn't bother reading every post so sorry if this was already posted. Other than the bible the romans kept records as well, and is pretty much proven that the MAN jesus existed as a person. I'm not accounting the miracles and such, just he was a real man.

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strider if you took the time to read the first post...i asked for actual historical evidence...i know there are a couple of historians that lived in or around jesus lifetime but those sources are not reputable...i want to know if there anyone has solid evidence he existed...so far...there truly is none.

shnkrmn said:

Sorry, but that's not true. Please provide your source.

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Jesus did exist and did die for nothing......Because you dont want to beleive history thats not anyones problem.. Where is your source for saying he didnt exist? How can you justify that? You cant because people have tryed and they all have come up with jesus was real and the story is real...The way people see it is them but he was real, he did die for nothing, and he did good by his people....

You are the type of person that wont beleive in big foot until you see him locked in a cage....Even though all the evidence says hes real you lack to beleive in the fellow man and thats your problem know body elses so stop takling on the subject asking for facts when you lack facts for your self...Grabbing religious shit off google doesnt count considering its google. Thats like looking on the back of a noodle package for directions on how to make brownies.....

SO, your proof that Jesus existed is that bigfoot is real???