watch this grow FAIL!

so this last week was a nightmare for me.. but ill take the lessons learned. me and my friend were working on his growroom. its his 1st indoor grow and has 1 outdoor grow under his belt.

so we got everything set up clones potted and everything. so the last thing to set up is the light. he argues that because its a 1k watt light he can keep it 5-6 feet away and the plants will grow great. i urged him to go and buy a good t5 or something to put about 6 inches or a foot from the plants.. well he just acts like i dont know anything and refuses to do that. (he has the money) so then i suggest lowering the light at least half way.. which would still be 3 feet from the tops of the little clones. i try to talk some sence into him. giving him reasons why a 1k light for 4 weeks of veg is a HUGE waste of money and energy. especially if its what seems like 5 feet away at least. he boasts that he grew 5 foot plants outdoors (the whole season starting in late april until early november) and ridicules my grow (SCROG using 1 400w in ebb & flow) i managed to get 7 oz dry from my grow with 5 plants while he harvested that from a single plant (hes being a real dick at this moment). well by this time im giving up. for about twenty minutes i watch as he struggles to comprehend the instructions on the nutrient package. he uses a bit over half strength nutes after i told him to use 1/4. now im just a bit ticked off.. it seems like he refuses to take my advice into consideration..
im just going to stand back and watch his first indoor grow that he invested so much money into just crumble. one question that did arise which i could not answer was "how many hours for the plant to stay in veg" i would say 14 at least. but i am not certain.

so what do you guys think? is he right? im not usually so stubborn.. only when i really believe i am right.

to stay in veg it needs to be 16/8

and im sure 5 to six feet will be fine for the little clones.. does he have cooling? because if not then 5-6 feet is fine..

and he can use half strength nutes if the plants can take it.. only one way to find out.

sike89 said:

to stay in veg it needs to be 16/8

and im sure 5 to six feet will be fine for the little clones.. does he have cooling? because if not then 5-6 feet is fine..

and he can use half strength nutes if the plants can take it.. only one way to find out.

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ok is 16/8 the minimum? i usually start my outdoor grows in mid april when the daylight is at around 13 hours.. so idk shouldnt it be the same for indoor? i was guessing 14 would be the minimum to keep them in veg indoors but idk..

while 5 feet will keep the plants ok.. and growing. my argument is that if he lowered it to 3 feet he would get more bang for his buck. while stimulating the photosynthesis of the plants to encourage faster growth.

from my experience the clones from harborside need a week of 1/4 nutes to get adjusted to the environment. then start to slowly increase. in my oppinion, they are going to be slightly stressed from the high ppms. of course the plants will not die with his method. i just know that if he listened to my advice he would have better results.

DontDoDrugs said:

ok is 16/8 the minimum? i usually start my outdoor grows in mid april when the daylight is at around 13 hours.. so idk shouldnt it be the same for indoor? i was guessing 14 would be the minimum to keep them in veg indoors but idk..

while 5 feet will keep the plants ok.. and growing. my argument is that if he lowered it to 3 feet he would get more bang for his buck. while stimulating the photosynthesis of the plants to encourage faster growth.

from my experience the clones from harborside need a week of 1/4 nutes to get adjusted to the environment. then start to slowly increase. in my oppinion, they are going to be slightly stressed from the high ppms. of course the plants will not die with his method. i just know that if he listened to my advice he would have better results.

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16/8 is the minimum for some plants, some flower much easier than others.

im just says that 3 feet might be a little hot for the plants with 1000w.. but ive been wrong before lol

and the nutes yeah to start a clone off 1/4 nute would be best but what does not kill you only makes you stronger or something.. lol

18/6 is typical. Better idea to go 24-0 until sure room is light proof then switch down. i did 20 and 4, will grow quicker with longer light period but the plant will be happier with some degree of darkness... 5ft is fine for the first couple weeks.

I do 18/6 then to bud 12/12.

theres no point of having a 1000w light 6 feet away lol thats absolutely ridiculous, 6 feet? picture it.... thats as tall as me, so youd have the tip of the plants at my feet and the tip of the light at my head, waste of time when flowering comes round and the light doesnt properly penetrate through the plant...

halo 3 all the wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy lol

yah its just a waste of energy and money. i could probably get the same results with a 40w cfl bulb 4 inches from the plants. i mean.. i kept my 400w just 15 inches from the plants throughout my whole grow and didnt hurt them. my point is he is being very inefficient is all.

Print out this chart for him.

I have my 400W at 14in from the canopy, so am getting 11,693 foot candles. At 3ft, his 1000W is giving him 4,951 foot candles.

He would have to be at 24in (2ft) with his 1000W, just to MATCH what I get using a 400W at 14in.

A 1000W needs a good air cooling (ducting) system to be effective at closer distances. No ducting and you won't be able to get a 1000W close enough to make it worth it.

jkmovies said:

Print out this chart for him.

I have my 400W at 14in from the canopy, so am getting 11,693 foot candles. At 3ft, his 1000W is giving him 4,951 foot candles.

He would have to be at 24in (2ft) with his 1000W, just to MATCH what I get using a 400W at 14in.

A 1000W needs a good air cooling (ducting) system to be effective at closer distances. No ducting and you won't be able to get a 1000W close enough to make it worth it.

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its a science. he doesent think so. he thinks light is light and nutrients are nutrients.. good luck getting him to look at that, he wouldnt even look at a magazine i bought him, it had an article about pruning, and topping for max yield by getting as many tops in the "sweet zone" in that same article it discusses how by doubling the distance of the bulb from the plant will quarter the amount of light. so if he would lower the light by 2-3 feet. he would be giving his plants at least 4 times as much light. his plan is to grow plants the same size as his outdoor plants which took about 6 months in the SUN (bay area) in trash can size pots. now he is using 1k watt light, in 3 gal pots. he is really living in a fantasy land......... he plans on never moving the light any lower. he thinks the plants will grow up to it..................... cmon!

you can lead a horse to water doesnt mean he will drink...Let him fuck up when he see that his plant are falling over...he will think again and come ask you if you have and idea why this may have happened...

im only 3 harvests in.. but i have learned alot! my plants went from ok/mid grade stuff the first grow. to good/chronic the second. and the latest harvest is some of the best shit around here. and i owe my success to RIU. although i do alot of research i do think RIU has provided at least 80% of the good advice i need. the rest i find in books. but most of the stuff in books can be found here using the search on the site lol. i feel bad for the plants.. because 1 of them was my Hindu Skunk i donated to him. at least we will have a comparison in buds when he harvests heh.

really i helped him throughout his outdoor grow and even warned him when i saw spider mites starting to populate in the lower branches. caught them early and ended up with minimal damage by using neem oil throughout the grow. and thats just ONE time i helped him out.. now.. i really dont give a shit, he thinks hes so good at this but in reality the main reason he had great success was because his location has great weather for cannabis. indoor is TOTALLY different, a different world.

i feel u bro, let him do his thing, i mean you warned him. being stubborn wont get him great plants and u can say "I told u so" hahaha


happy tokin bro

i just went through the same thing with one of my friends about two weeks ago and i've been growing on and off for 5 years but the whole time i was reading about new discoveries and what other people were doing trying to get my crops a little better while he's grown 6 plants total in a period of about 7 years and read one growing book from the 70s and all his plants have turned out worse than most of the ditch weed around here. if he had more experience or maybe grew one or two decent plants i might have listened to what he had to say but the only thing he really knows that is right is basic things like regular light bulbs dont work and the light cycles. it does drive you crazy and really infuriates you that even though you for a fact have more experience and do know more about the theory and science behind what it takes to grow a good plant they are so stubborn that they just completely ignore your advice and i have to say after seeing then trying the last 2 he grew that he knows nothing about what the hell he's doing. i agree with the others just sit back and enjoy your superior smoke and laugh as his fail and only after extreme begging and much sucking up should you even consider helping him again.

btw you can start a plant in under 16/8 because it wont begin to flower for a few weeks easily. The plants take a lil bit of time to reach sexual maturity.

As long as your not burning the plant, and you can eliminate the heat, hammer that light as close as you can to the plants. A cool tube and a good fan works great.

Just sit back and wait on him to ask questions? You have to remember that right now he knows everything in his mind.

I feel your pain, one of the reasons i'll never grow with someone. Get your on grow going and leave that fool to his mash potato plants, he'll come running.

TheMightyS said:

I feel your pain, one of the reasons i'll never grow with someone. Get your on grow going and leave that fool to his mash potato plants, he'll come running.

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i have my own grow room. i have had limited funds but i made it work. what makes me mad is that he was given the 1k watt set up all he bought was a bulb... and dirt. the shed he grows in is his uncles who only wants a little bit of the plants so its like when a snobby ass inherits a fortune ya know? i would have LOVED a free 1k light set up.. and a shed thats bigger than the one i built myself. that way i could finaly set up my dream perpetual setup. i was happy for him but after trying to help him out with it and seeing how stubborn he is and hearing him talk about my grow and making it sound like shit, TWICE and once in front of his uncle.. so disrespectful.

ill take the advice being given to me on this thread. if his stuff starts going bad ill just tell him i dont want to interfere because if anything else goes wrong i dont want it to be my fault.