wealth distribution

scottiedoo said:

I've thought this about my father's generation... (and generations before) we really do live in a society where you basically CANNOT make an "honest" living... & collectively, as a nation, we're so numb to this... just taking the beatings daily with Prozac-fueled smiles on our faces...

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I don't know about Vi, but my blood flows from the heart of the working class.

My grandfather owned his own Tavern, I don't know how much it cost him to open it.

My father ran his own vending business (I'm not even going to comment on how hard he worked, and how rarely I saw both my parents during the week, because he was out there chasing the American Dream and trying to stay one step ahead of the competition, and one step ahead of the tax man destroying everything through taxation.)

And me, I'm a corporate programmer, that makes less than the average private sector employee. Wealthy, no, but that hasn't stopped me from trying to chase my own dreams.

Of course, those dreams are another reason why I think the government needs to but out of our lives.

Assuming I didn't have income taxes to pay, I'd have a lot more cash to spend, and thus I'd be spending more. I can't think of any one in my age group that wouldn't be spending more if they were taxed less.

I don't think the Democrats understand that by its very nature the economic pie grows, and that everyone that wants to can get ahead. There is no need to dictate to people that they are part of this economic class, or that economic class, that's asinine. It's like telling them that you are part of this economic class, and will always be part of this economic class. It's not true, it's bullshit.

Even more insulting is the proposal to fix minimum wages with inflation, which will only lead to more inflation, which will lead to faster minimum wage hikes, leading to more minimum wage hikes, ad infinitum. It will repeat itself until the average american is as poor as they are right now, but is making $1,000,000 a year in worthless monopoly money.

Raising minimum wage doesn't fix anything, because ultimately it raises the price of everything. All this talk about the little guy, and the damn politicians can't see that when they raise the bar a little bit at the bottom, the next several rungs jump that much further apart.

I remember reading some where that in the 60s the average house price was something like $15,000 or maybe $10,000, nothing fancy, just basic homes, but that's all that's needed. Now we have this Suburban Mansions that cost 10x as much, but are out of reach for a person working at McDonalds, or Kroger, or even as a Corporate Programmer (yeah, I could afford a house, but it'd mean not saving a dime for retirement.)

It's stupid, and insane.

I remember reading something that stated that $1 Billion was the new mark for what was the status of Millionaires. The only reason I can think of that being the case is because the bars have been pushed further and further apart.

It's like a balloon, when it's flat you can draw three dots close together, but as you blow them up they get further and further and further apart.

It's absurd. What the government needs to do is stop inflating the money supply and stabilize the currency. It needs to pass a balanced budget amendment and get itself out of debt. It needs to freeze federal spending at its current levels, and get the hell out of the way of the private sector.

It needs to stop trying to redistribute wealth, because all that does is interfere with the ability of the working class to get ahead. It's hard to get ahead when the government suddenly classifies you as rich, because you are making 'x' dollars a year, when the year before you were just making 'y' dollars a year.

It's stupid. The government needs to abolish the income tax and raise tariffs and import duties to protect our economy. Something that if some of the things I've heard about Obama are true he's just pushing as empty Rhetoric and has no intention of going through with.

MORE OBAMA DISHONESTY REGARDING NAFTA

Even if its not true, Obama has proven that he is like every other politician out there, a bag of hot air. Where was he when the bail out was passed, voting for it, just like McCain.

It doesn't matter who wins, because America will see 4 more years of the same... though Obama with his tax and spend ideas is probably going to make it that much worse. You can't take wealth from the entrepreneurial class (even if they appear rich) and redistribute it to their workers, because it's going to force the entrepreneurial class to choose between themselves and their workers, and you can bet your ass that they aren't going to choose their workers when it comes to feeding themselves or an employee.

Too often idiots like Obama and McCain forget that the jobs in America are provided by corporations, and that the people that work for those corporations might like your ideas, but they want long term job security.

It's a slap in the face of the American Worker when companies that just laid off thousands (GM, Ford, Chrysler, Goldman Sachs, National City Corp., CitiGroup) are allowed to reach into the coffers of government and secure billions of dollars in loans and loan guarantees to protect themselves from bankruptcy.

Let's not forget the fact that Obama, despite his rhetoric about being for the little guy, chose one of those corrupt CEOs (Jim Johnson) to choose his running mate. It was only after there was an outrage that he ditched Jim Johnson in the same manner that he ditched Wright, and Rezko.

To think that Obama offers Change is just as ludicrous as thinking McCain will offer Change, or that McCain really is a Maverick. McCain isn't a Maverick, he's just in the wrong party.

A real maverick would be challenging government and its need to be a bloated monstrosity that is interfering in the lives of the people. A real maverick would be out there speaking against the bail out, and saying that it is wrong to strip Americans of their tax dollars to bail out corporate interest groups. A real maverick would be out there saying that the government needs to get the hell out of the way and let the market work.

A maverick would not be preaching about the need to stabilize an inflated home market (which will stabilize of its own accord, like it is already starting to do.) Bloomberg: U.S. Economy: New-Home Sales Increased in September

Neither of these politicians understand the free market, which is really fucking simple. When prices are sufficiently reduced to the point where they match the prices people are willing to pay, people will start buying.
Though, there is more, when prices match the prices people can afford to pay, people will start to buy.

No, I fear that any government interference in the markets is just going to make the problems confronting our nation worse, either in the short term or in the long term.

I can only state, that I hope, that if there is a God, that he helps the future generations get out from under the ton of rubble and debt our politicians are trying to bury them under.

fuck it it goes like this:
for democracy to work there has to be winners and losers, the have's and the have nots things will go on but there will always be those suffering the best u can hope for is to minimize

with socialism all u can do is hope that the people in charge are not too corrupt and an uprising does not tear ur country to part

he only working socialism today is Sweden i think

smartsoverambition said:

fuck it it goes like this:
for democracy to work there has to be winners and losers, the have's and the have nots things will go on but there will always be those suffering the best u can hope for is to minimize

with socialism all u can do is hope that the people in charge are not too corrupt and an uprising does not tear ur country to part

he only working socialism today is Sweden i think

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That's a Socialist Capitalist Society, not a true Socialist Society.

smartsoverambition said:

fuck it it goes like this:
for democracy to work there has to be winners and losers, the have's and the have nots things will go on but there will always be those suffering the best u can hope for is to minimize

with socialism all u can do is hope that the people in charge are not too corrupt and an uprising does not tear ur country to part

he only working socialism today is Sweden i think

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You have to keep fighting for what's right, no matter what the the odds are, you must always have hope.

scottiedoo said:

I've thought this about my father's generation... (and generations before) we really do live in a society where you basically CANNOT make an "honest" living... & collectively, as a nation, we're so numb to this... just taking the beatings daily with Prozac-fueled smiles on our faces...

Click to expand...

Maybe that's what my problem is, I'm not drugged up to my eyeballs on Prozac, or Ritalin or whatever the hell other chemical is going around being pushed by the medical community as the latest cure all to depression.

Why are we trying to escape reality with drugs?

Though, I did read some where that the baby-boomers were the most depressed generation. Their parents were happier, their children are happier, hmmm, maybe we just need to kick those old grumpy people out of office. Too many people not grinning... I mean, (beside from Obama, who has a goofy 12 year old smile) when's the last time you really saw a politician smile (I mean a real smile, not a fake "I can't wait to fuck you over, suckers" smile).

Progressive taxation isn't about "spreading the wealth" its about spreading the bill. Vi, had you told the waiter that you were a couple bucks short, he probably would have obliged you, perhaps some dishes need washed

TheBrutalTruth said:

*snip*
If wealth distribution was the answer during the 30s, instead of having a starving economy we would have had a booming economy. It wasn't until the United States entered World War II that the economy started moving again. Of course, seeing as how you can't possibly admit that war has positive benefits (like more employment) there is no way to make you see that your ideology is flawed.
*snip*

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Employment from war is the epitome of wealth distribution. Initiated by the government, with the bill footed by tax payers (generations of tax payers in fact). The government pays companies to extract raw materials, pays workers to produce machines of war from those raw materials, pays soldiers to fight the war as well as their benefits/housing/medical care, etc, etc, et al. Like a giant pinko elephant in the room, the United States military is the largest socialist program on the planet.

The society we already live in is really big on wealth re-distibution. Why else would a CEO rake in a paycheck in the millions while making sure the people doing the actual work are making minimum wage and have no health benefits? Isn't that re-distributiuon of wealth in its highest form?

What about that restuarant owner who is paying his wait staff $2 / hour while expecting the customers to pay his workers for him? Isn't that wealth re-distribution?

For some reason rich people totally screwing poor people is very acceptable, yet poor people wanting to get what they earned is not acceptable.

Maybe all salaries should be tied together. If the minimum wage is under 7 dollars per hour, no person in government should make more than 5 times the minimum wage. Maybe CEO paychecks should not exceed employees paychecks by more than 5 times.

One more thing about the "homeless guy" from Vi's story. How do you know that guy isn't homeless due to Reagen allowing mental institutions to turn patients with no insurance into the street? Maybe the homeless man was homeless because it's just not right to help people, unless they are fully insured.

someday if we are going to thrive as a species we will have to get beyond this system. we are far to easily manipulated by it and ultimately we are all in the boat and first class sinks the same as 3rd

misshestermoffitt said:

One more thing about the "homeless guy" from Vi's story. How do you know that guy isn't homeless due to Reagen allowing mental institutions to turn patients with no insurance into the street? Maybe the homeless man was homeless because it's just not right to help people, unless they are fully insured.

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How do we know? Because some of us not only lived in that era, we actually paid attention.

The homeless are on the streets, not because of Reagan, but because of the ACLU and their stupid-assed lawsuits "defending" the "civil rights" of the homeless. You see, because of ACLU lawsuits back in the day, the courts ruled that anyone, even the mentally ill, have the right to roam the streets at will as long as they are not a threat to themselves and others.

The notion that Reagan was at fault in this is nothing more than more liberal propaganda. This is what they do ... When their ideas, and attempts at social engineering go awry, and the public is faced with the unintended consequences, they blame conservatives, capitalism and free markets.

Vi

this is not a free market when you have a banking system like the one we have. its a scam, the biggest scam. if you grew up playing monopoly the way the system really works you would not play. for that matter you wouldnt play the game either if it was reflective of the real game cause who ever got to be the bank would win every game

Well, you guyz are right, of course. In a truly free market, the term "Bailout" is never used.

Vi

So Vi, you can't recall Reagen signing a bill that allowed institutions to turn patients with no insurance out into the street? I certainly remember that and I was in High school. Not every homeless person is homeless by choice.

I guess, wanting food and shelter, like those are basic human rights, scoff, scoff, scoff.

Yes I heard they paid Homer Simpson $1,000 just to let oil companies rape their beautiful scenery... When are Californians getting paid for whatever?

ya dubya is really sticking it to the world

TheBrutalTruth said:

Maybe that's what my problem is, I'm not drugged up to my eyeballs on Prozac, or Ritalin or whatever the hell other chemical is going around being pushed by the medical community as the latest cure all to depression.

Why are we trying to escape reality with drugs?

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Hey man, with an attitude like that you're on the wrong website!!!!

great video called 'in lies we trust' about the medical scam. its on google video