Weed in Canada has ZERO value

ComputerSaysNo said:

You could probably grow something like Early Queen in your climate outdoors. Have you tried?

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If it's a photoperiod plant then it's a no go for me. They won't start flowering until mid-Aug unless some sort of light depravation is used and we will for certain have hard frosts starting the 3rd week of Sept. Early as Aug 18 a few years back but thanks to global warming our autumn has been getting longer every year. Last year nursed one thru to late Oct with a DIY greenhouse, heavy blanket at night and a heater. -15C many nights and it snowed 3 times before the wife blew the breaker plugging in a water warmer for her chickens and it froze pretty good so I cropped earlier than I wanted to but got close to a pound of good hi-CBD bud off her. Tests high for CBD too but I'm not sure how high until I crop the clone from here in a couple weeks indoors and send a sample off for testing. If it's 15% or higher it'll be just what I've been looking for and I'll be selfing her with female pollen I've already collected from a branch on her I sprayed with STS. Supposed to be less than 0.03% THC but up to 1% is acceptable.

This year I grew a bunch of autos. 3 female THC ones called Mazarilla, (two in the ground and one in an 8gal pot), and some no-name CBD ones that didn't produce much so looking for a good hi-CBD auto for outside next year and may have just picked them up at the post office today. Called CBD-AUTO 'HEMP' by some guys called Growing Higher Genetics.

The two Mazarilla left to chop and what's left of one of the hi-CBD ones in the middle. The one on the left is only 32"tall but nice phat colas on both of them. GG#4 auto X Mazar auto by Urban Legends. I spent a couple hours out in the sun just in shorts yesterday catching a few rays while pre-trimming them in prep for trimming starting tonight. Have more seeds of these and will be making fem pollen to make lots more over the winter. Coldest it got so far is 6C but having sunny 22C days lately. Rain coming by Tuesday so down they come and they are ready with all cloudy trichs with a scattering off amber ones and not a white hair to be found on either.



The beans of which I spoke. Just ordered the two white packs, one with 22 and one with 14, and got a surprise 10 pack of those Chem K-9s by Vee Dub Genetics. Cost me all of $36US and 20 of that was an optional donation to the cause. 16 was for shipping from WA state across the border. Charge for the seeds, $0.00. OverGrow the gov't! OverGrow the planet!

ComputerSaysNo said:

So that is what you meant when you said "you will have some docs to wave around in court". You would be allowed to grow x plants with your medication allowance, just couldn't be bothered to apply formally for the grow permit.

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Exactly! Legal to grow 4 recreational plants for anyone so I can add those to my allotted medical numbers. The gov't has a calculator so you can punch in yours and get a plant count for indoor, outdoor or a combination of both and the rules around the mix is like a lot of pot rules twisted and arbitrary. Like this scenario. Wife and I both have the medpot papers and could both grow our plants but must keep each grow separate and not allowed to help each other in any way unless one of us acts as designated grower, (criminal record check required for the other then can have a single grow and the other can be involved in everything from sprout to final processing. Talk about FUBAR!

I would never see jail time but could lose all my gear and get a fat fine but could also just get a slap on the wrist depending on the cops that nail me and the judge. I'm 67 next month and the only criminal offense on my record is an impaired driving conviction from 1993. Nothing but a speeding ticket in 2001 since. Minister of the Universal Life Church since 1978 to boot!

ComputerSaysNo said:

That is outrageous, but expected. But as I said above, those plant limits are silly, and since they even issue "personal" permits to grow more than a couple of plants at all, it should be obvious to anybody that the stuff must be for the black market.

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Those are supposed to be medical permits for a single patient and have nothing to do with the 3 yo 'legal' market I refer to as Prohibition 2.0. Get caught making concentrates with 'organic solvents' like ISO, naphtha, butane or even good old high proof ethanol like EverClear, 190proof, and face up to 14 years in a federal prison now. An 18yo here hands a joint to a 17yo at a party and can be charged with supplying cannabis to a minor and face up to 14 years in the greybar hotel too. $50 fine if booze is the offending drug. How f'ed up is that?

Screw them all especially the greedy LPs supplying crappy pot to the legal stores from which I have not and will not buy a single gram from.

OldMedUser said:

I would never see jail time but could lose all my gear and get a fat fine but could also just get a slap on the wrist depending on the cops that nail me and the judge. I'm 67 next month and the only criminal offense on my record is an impaired driving conviction from 1993.

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I don't think DUI is even a criminal offense. There is probably nothing on your record at all. Those records expire.
It would depend entirely on the judge what would happen to you should you get busted. The cops have no say in that. Why would you even get busted, though? You said you live in the middle of nowhere, and by now probably everybody who remotely cares knows that you are growing skunk.

You'd probably get the slap on the wrist in any case.

OldMedUser said:

Those are supposed to be medical permits for a single patient and have nothing to do with the 3 yo 'legal' market I refer to as Prohibition 2.0. Get caught making concentrates with 'organic solvents' like ISO, naphtha, butane or even good old high proof ethanol like EverClear, 190proof, and face up to 14 years in a federal prison now. An 18yo here hands a joint to a 17yo at a party and can be charged with supplying cannabis to a minor and face up to 14 years in the greybar hotel too. $50 fine if booze is the offending drug. How f'ed up is that?

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Yes, it's all very random, like the plant count. However, some liberalization is better than no liberalization.

Those maximum penalties are insane. That's a very North American phenomenon.

In the EU it's practically impossible to go away for 14 years except for capital crimes. I don't think it's possible to get 14 years for drug-related offenses no matter how severe, unless of course there's murder etc. involved as well.

I guess in the EU if it's your first offense and you get caught with multiples kilos of ganja or a grow of the appropriate size you'd maybe get a year or two, or maybe even just a hefty fine. Certainly not decades in prison. Just does not exist where I live.

OldMedUser said:

Those are supposed to be medical permits for a single patient and have nothing to do with the 3 yo 'legal' market I refer to as Prohibition 2.0.

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I also want to point out that the very existence of the "medical permit" makes quite the difference. E.g. in your case you could officially grow a LOT of plants, and it would be very difficult to make a court case out of that even if you do not play strictly by the rules. This is because the existence of the plants alone is OK.

This is hugely different from any legislation where owning even a single plant is legally a criminal offense.

Now, since you're practically able to even own so many plants, this opens the door to many still illegal activities such as BM sale and making concentrates. These activities, however, are a lot easier to hide than the growing itself.

It might still be "Prohibition 2.0", but it's an environment where a lot of things are possible at low risk that just weren't before.

Sometimes I think ide like weed legal in OZ but then I read some of this thread!!

ComputerSaysNo said:

I don't think DUI is even a criminal offense.

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It's a serious criminal offence here in Canada with a mandatory 1 year suspension of your driver's licence, fines up to thousands of dollars and up to 6 months to a year in prison for a first offence and stays on your record for life unless you get a pardon which I did in 1988 when I went back to school in my 30s to get a diploma in environmental chemistry. I figured as I was probably going into a profession after graduating a clean record would be good to have. Then I got a 3rd DUI in 1993 and have never applied for a pardon for that one. If you get 3 in a 10 year span you can lose you DL for life.

ComputerSaysNo said:

I guess in the EU if it's your first offense and you get caught with multiples kilos of ganja or a grow of the appropriate size you'd maybe get a year or two, or maybe even just a hefty fine. Certainly not decades in prison. Just does not exist where I live.

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Those 14 year ones are the max in extreme circumstances or repeat offenders. I make oil using banned solvents but not large batches and don't sell it so would likely just get a fine if they caught me doing that which would be a long-shot. Only a few friends knew I was growing before they legalized and I'm still pretty tight-lipped about it even now as I'm growing more than the legal 4 plants at all times.

Canadian law is built on the same punitive and judeo-christian based values that the UK has used for centuries to protect the rich and titled while tossing the common man to the lions. We are still part of the commonwealth dontcha know. The US is even worse with it's privately run, profit based prison system backed by minimum sentencing for many seemingly minor offences it has vastly more prisoners per-capita than any country in the world including repressive societies like China or North Korea. Home of the free my ass unless you are rich/famous.

The plant count isn't random as they have set numbers of plants per grams per day your doctor signs for. There's even a calculator for that here and you can read all about the rules for growing medically here.

This legal pot system launched rapidly and has built-in options to make changes as the gov't gets new info. Setting up smaller boutique grows that can sell thru the legal channels is much easier and hemp farmers can now harvest and sell the leaves and buds where all that had to be destroyed once the seeds and fiber were harvested. Smaller hemp farms than the min 10 acres are allowed now too. Hemp farming is expected to triple in the next 3 years with 3 new hemp decortication plants are being built in western Canada to process the fiber. One planned for our area and I plan to attend a seminar about it later this month. I'm praying that no farmers for 30km around me plant fields of hemp or my outdoor grows are f'ed. Pollen can travel on the wind for 100s of km so 30 is likely too short a distance to prevent my plants from being knocked up. Even indoor grows will have to be timed so you're not flowering during hemp season. I won't have to grow CBD plants anymore as I'll be able to go steal all the buds I want from farmer's fields and extract the cannabinoids in my illegal extraction solvents.

ComputerSaysNo said:

I also want to point out that the very existence of the "medical permit" makes quite the difference. E.g. in your case you could officially grow a LOT of plants, and it would be very difficult to make a court case out of that even if you do not play strictly by the rules. This is because the existence of the plants alone is OK.

This is hugely different from any legislation where owning even a single plant is legally a criminal offense.

Now, since you're practically able to even own so many plants, this opens the door to many still illegal activities such as BM sale and making concentrates. These activities, however, are a lot easier to hide than the growing itself.

It might still be "Prohibition 2.0", but it's an environment where a lot of things are possible at low risk that just weren't before.

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All of that is true and a review of the medical growing rules is scheduled for next month by which time we may switch to a Conservative government from our current Liberal one which was the one who made pot legal in the first place. The Cons can't really do much to stop the medical grows but could put more money toward inspecting grows where almost no inspections are being done now unless complaints are received from the public. They could easily repeal the 4 plant limits for recreational growing tho. two provinces and one territory don't allow that now as it is up to each province to determine that. Some won't allow outdoor growing either.

I prefer the old system myself but in a generation it will be just like the liquor control systems with the vast majority just buying from the vendors and a small percentage brewing/growing their own at home.

Porky1982 said:

Sometimes I think ide like weed legal in OZ but then I read some of this thread!!

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The gov't puts all these crazy rules in place to protect the corporations that grow the pot as the more they make the more the gov't collects. 4 plants for everybody isn't a lot but I'm amazed they allowed that at all.

OldMedUser said:

The plant count isn't random as they have set numbers of plants per grams per day your doctor signs for.

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I understand that. I think that going by "number of plants" by itself is quite random already, and the plant count per gram per day in Canada certainly seems "random" to me in the sense that it is very high (one indoor plant can give you 50 g/month easily).

OldMedUser said:

4 plants for everybody isn't a lot

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I would say it is quite a lot. It is a lot more than most people would need to grow for "personal consumption".
But as I've said before, limiting plant count at all does not make sense. If you take 20 clones and fill a sea of green, that's not really different from manifolding 4 plants and filling a ScroG net.

Of course it's really difficult for lawmakers to come up with "limits" that can actually be formulated as a law and also enforced. Plant count is just the next best thing, so they did that.

ComputerSaysNo said:

There's never a market in the major drug-producing countries. It's always somewhere else.
Pure cocaine in, say, columbia is maybe $2 per g, and sells for 30 times that (or more) in the US or EU.


Yes, in Canada the situation is basically as it should be. There's nothing special about the plant, it's about as easy to grow as basil, only come harvest time there's some work involved; on the other hand it stores quite well, much better than most other fresh crops.

So there's no surprise that an operation of any size comparable to traditional agriculture is necessary to make ends meet.

Canada is now practically "Mexico w/o the Sinaloa cartel" with regards to weed. I don't see why prices should rebound ever, unless taxes are raised, outside of niche markets for exotic premium flowers.

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Not only is the Sinaloa comment spot on, it's for the same reason. The USA drags its feet, with 50 separate states, s l o w l y legalizing it. There is a market until the price in the USA nationally drops.

We used to dream, decades ago, about it being legal. Even as it is decriminalized, making all the money from the market is still only controlled by the politicians and big businesses. It is slow and piecemeal precisely for that reason.

Believe me, we are the world's largest corn producers and 3rd in tomatoes (China loves their tomatoes). When our Big Ag companies get a hold of the fields, legally, and companies like Monsanto buy the seed genetics, there will be $0 left to make (imo)..

ComfortCreator said:

When our Big Ag companies get a hold of the fields, legally, and companies like Monsanto buy the seed genetics, there will be $0 left to make (imo).

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You can not compete with modern farming in any area, unless you grow plants that can not be mass produced (what would those be? Bonsai trees?).

It is completely obvious that there would be no place for the hobby grower if weed was actually completely legal (as legal as tomatoes or basil). It would not even be reasonable to grow for personal comsumption, unless purely as a hobby/pastime.
It would not have anything to do with Monsanto or "Big Ag" either. Cannabis is simply extremely easy to grow, the genetics are freely available, and nothing beats the economy of scale.

Is it fun to grow your own tomatoes, salad or chilis? Sure! Does it make sense economically? Absolutely not.
(A case could be made for home grown tomatoes because they are harvested ripe and not green, which is way better.)

ComputerSaysNo said:

Is it fun to grow your own tomatoes, salad or chilis? Sure! Does it make sense economically? Absolutely not.
(A case could be made for home grown tomatoes because they are harvested ripe and not green, which is way better.)

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My wife is planting around 3000 garlic in the next few weeks for next year's crop. 1750 the year before and she sold it all for cash this summer with the money e-transfered to her bank before she shipped a single bulb. Had to turn people away to hang on to enough for this year's planting. Wish she'd come up with this 20 years ago and we could have been big by now. 3- $5 per bulb so she put some of the money into the next crop, (just had 10yds of composted cow manure dumped in the back yard yesterday and the tiller guy will be over next Friday to put it all in the garden and till it in. Looking to buy our own little tractor with a bucket, 5' mower and a tiller of our own. Around 15G for a good one so going to talk to the local John Deere dealer and my bank next week to see about financing. The bucket will be good enough to move snow with so don't really want a snow blower attachment. We could clear a couple acres of alder woods for more grow space on our 7.5 acre plot.

ComputerSaysNo said:

You can not compete with modern farming in any area, unless you grow plants that can not be mass produced (what would those be? Bonsai trees?

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Even if they can grow fields of cannabis...who wants it?
You can't sell that stuff in Canada for pennies a gram. Even if used for concentrates that amount produced would be pointless. There just isn't that big of a demand.
Imo the only real steady sales are small batch craft grown. That where the real demand is.
Odd how it's coming back to the early days of growing in small batches.
You gotta be your own marketing committee though. Sales and growing skills helps now in combination.

DancesWithWorms said:

The demand is still there, retail prices are still fairly solid for quality flower. Definitely a buyers market wholesale so the retailers are making a mint at the moment with insane markups but it's not a death knell for the BM. It will bounce back, it always does.

Single zips of the true 'za are still $220-$300+ CAD online and move very quickly. Needs a lot of bag appeal though, guys growing ugly chems and afghani's are getting needled on price regardless of how potent the smoke is.

Will always be demand for the guys that really have their shit dialed in, those same consumers sure as hell aren't getting serviced by the legal market at the moment.

Expecting to see a lot of the growers go to a more vertically integrated model when you can start an online grey market dispensary for around $10k and sell direct.

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Could you have your product certified organic by an independent agency? IME you can essentially eliminate a significant portion of your competition. There are people who will buy nothing else. Perhaps make and sell your own concentrate. An online store obviates the need for a rented storefront, staffing, insurance, etc.

OldMedUser said:

My wife is planting around 3000 garlic in the next few weeks for next year's crop. 1750 the year before and she sold it all for cash this summer with the money e-transfered to her bank before she shipped a single bulb. Had to turn people away to hang on to enough for this year's planting. Wish she'd come up with this 20 years ago and we could have been big by now. 3- $5 per bulb so she put some of the money into the next crop, (just had 10yds of composted cow manure dumped in the back yard yesterday and the tiller guy will be over next Friday to put it all in the garden and till it in. Looking to buy our own little tractor with a bucket, 5' mower and a tiller of our own. Around 15G for a good one so going to talk to the local John Deere dealer and my bank next week to see about financing. The bucket will be good enough to move snow with so don't really want a snow blower attachment. We could clear a couple acres of alder woods for more grow space on our 7.5 acre plot.

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Don't go to the bank. Just don't.

cherrybobeddie said:

Don't go to the bank. Just don't.

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Why's that?

ComputerSaysNo said:

It's not a "paradox" at all. "Exotic" by definition means that it's not available in bulk. There needs to be a demand for "exotic", however, and that demand is not driven by "quality", but by hype and marketing and myths.

Why would any "exotic" flower be significantly more expensive to grow than Skunk #1? It doesn't work that way with Cannabis unless I'm missing something quite not so obvious here.

Look at the wine industry: expensive wines are not objectively better than anything in the generally accepted price range. There have been more than enough blind tests that prove that over and over again. There's no quality-driven market for premium wines, it's purely fueled by bullshit and people with too much money. Cannabis might follow.

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"Look at the wine industry: expensive wines are not objectively better than anything in the generally accepted price range. There have been more than enough blind tests that prove that over and over again. There's no quality-driven market for premium wines, it's purely fueled by bullshit and people with too much money."

Wrong.

OldMedUser said:

Why's that?

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Go talk to the bank. Tell them you are a small farmer. See what happens.

ComfortCreator said:

Not only is the Sinaloa comment spot on, it's for the same reason. The USA drags its feet, with 50 separate states, s l o w l y legalizing it. There is a market until the price in the USA nationally drops.

We used to dream, decades ago, about it being legal. Even as it is decriminalized, making all the money from the market is still only controlled by the politicians and big businesses. It is slow and piecemeal precisely for that reason.

Believe me, we are the world's largest corn producers and 3rd in tomatoes (China loves their tomatoes). When our Big Ag companies get a hold of the fields, legally, and companies like Monsanto buy the seed genetics, there will be $0 left to make (imo)..

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Monsanto got their teat in a wringer with Roundup. They had to sell out to Bayer. Big Business.

cherrybobeddie said:

Go talk to the bank. Tell them you are a small farmer. See what happens.

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LOL! The bank knows me. I'm retired and need the tractor for my hobby farming and could just take the cash out of my TFSA account but I'm getting pretty good returns on that so is cheaper to borrow at prime +1 or 2.

Got a year and a half to go on my mortgage then back to free and clear. Worth about 200G.

OldMedUser said:

The gov't puts all these crazy rules in place to protect the corporations that grow the pot as the more they make the more the gov't collects. 4 plants for everybody isn't a lot but I'm amazed they allowed that at all.

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Yeah mate if it gets legalised in OZ it will be solely owned by big pharmaceutical!!
Fucking scummy cunts!!!

The Hippy said:

Even if they can grow fields of cannabis...who wants it?
You can't sell that stuff in Canada for pennies a gram. Even if used for concentrates that amount produced would be pointless. There just isn't that big of a demand.
Imo the only real steady sales are small batch craft grown. That where the real demand is.
Odd how it's coming back to the early days of growing in small batches.
You gotta be your own marketing committee though. Sales and growing skills helps now in combination.

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Really, you cant imagine who will want it? Tobacco...really high quality tobacco is grown here and elsewhere. Is that what sells? Or is it cigarettes?

Tomatoes and corn....there are more fields in the USA than almost anywhere else...lots of big ag companies would he happy to switch over to cannabis, and create their own markets and distribution.

Corn sells for $5.50 a bushel.
Tomatoes are worth $0.30 a pound

See any room in there to switch crops and make money?