Week 5 flower gets me everytime.

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10-46

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Hi all, I'm wondering if you can tell me what this deficiency may be. I'm thinking its a Cal/mag deficiency but I also may be underfeeding during flower as well. I'm just not sure. Here are a few pics.

This is a quick flowering strain, around 9 weeks. Its very possible the deficiencies shown are natural senescence, (leaves fading towards the end of flower) but I'm stumped. If anyone can tell what the yellowing and spots are, I'd really appreciate it ! I hate just dumping more Cal/mag blindly, but it sure seems to slow it down.

Week 5

week 12 F5.JPG

Week 6

week 13 F6.JPG



Another grow:

Week 4 flower

Week 9.1.JPG

Week 6 flower


Week 11.1.JPG

Week 7

Week 12.1.JPG
 
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10-46

10-46

Member
My latest grow did a little better, but I think I still need improvement and am doing something wrong.

Week 9 flower (harvest)

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joesoap2013

Well-Known Member
Been happening to me as well last few grows
Try and save some fan leaves let them fall off the plant loves it
You want the buds getting light not the leaves as well
 
10-46

10-46

Member
joesoap2013 said:
Been happening to me as well last few grows
Try and save some fan leaves let them fall off the plant loves it
You want the buds getting light not the leaves as well
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Yep, try to leave quite a few fan leaves for the plant to take nutrients from as needed. I've experimented with this quite a bit. I've also gone in the opposite direction lollipopping....

I'd still like to know what those leafs are trying to tell me though....Need more Mag? Calcium ? P and K too much or too little etc..? Is it normal senescence?

I get this like clockwork every grow right around week 5.... It progresses rapidly through the rest of flower--luckily I seem to keep it away from the buds (just barely) Each grow has been better and better, but I still see brown spots and then yellowing of leaves every time. I'm thinking my harvests are decent, but could be better without a deficiency.
 
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tehdansauce

Well-Known Member
Do you test your EC/PPM and PH of runoff? Maybe slight N excess with the slight claw especially in the first plant. I think the deficiency looks like K which is harder to take up with high N.
 
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tehdansauce said:
Do you test your EC/PPM and PH of runoff? Maybe slight N excess with the slight claw especially in the first plant. I think the deficiency looks like K which is harder to take up with high N.
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Yes, I do use a PPM pen to read runoff and also check PH regularly (runoff and feed). Great information, yes its very possible that I'm feeding too much N into flower. I was not aware that N can cause K uptakes problems. I'm really hoping this is it because I'm already using Cal/Mag regularly, giving more seems like a bad idea.

Thanks much, you have no idea how much this helps, I really appreciate it.
 
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tehdansauce

Well-Known Member
Yeah if it was K deficient adding more Mag and Cal will only compete more with the available K. You’ve probably seen these charts or a version of them by now but I’ll add them just in case. K/Cal/Mag should have a ration close to 3:2:1 in veg and pushed to 4:2:1 on or after the stretch. N/P/K is recommend 2:1:3 generally throughout the grow. Can definitely cut back N in the last few weeks. I’d almost recommend a good flush just after the stretch in case you N has built up and then switch to Bloom ratios around week 3 or 4 strain dependent.
 

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10-46

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tehdansauce said:
Yeah if it was K deficient adding more Mag and Cal will only compete more with the available K. You’ve probably seen these charts or a version of them by now but I’ll add them just in case. K/Cal/Mag should have a ration close to 3:2:1 in veg and pushed to 4:2:1 on or after the stretch. N/P/K is recommend 2:1:3 generally throughout the grow. Can definitely cut back N in the last few weeks. I’d almost recommend a good flush just after the stretch in case you N has built up and then switch to Bloom ratios around week 3 or 4 strain dependent.
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Thanks, I'll try not to type too much here, but I've been around and around on this. I've read deeply into the topic of "flower nutrients" and many say that flower nutrients (4:2:1) aren't needed at all. Flower nutrients also have a tendency to lockout nutrients as the salts build up. So, I tried a few grows going half Veg nutrients and half Flower to test this theory. This may explain why my N is so high and causing problems during flower. So, next grow, I will move back to a flowering ration with nutrients. (with caution not to over do it). I'm hoping my problems are a lack of P or K in flower...

Flush at stretch sounds like a great tip, I normally flush once during my grow, especially as the stretch starts... I hate flushing though, its definitely got pros and cons. I wont go too far on this subject now, but your advice seems solid and I will monitor PPM's at the stretch and flush to get things on track. (removing excess N).. Side note: I water to runoff, around 10-20% runoff to help reduce salt buildup and for the ability to test the runoff. (watering to runoff is like a mini flush if that makes sense.)

I'm using Dynagrow Foliage Pro and Bloom..... 3:1:2 and 1:4:2. Next grow, I'll ease off the nitrogen in flower and will feed flower nutrients.

Thanks, much ! I really appreciate the help here.
 
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tehdansauce

Well-Known Member
I agree that flower nutrient profile isn’t necessarily necessary. It seems like you have to have more runoff to prevent the possibility of a lockout. I use master blend 4-18-39 combined with calcium nitrate and epsom salt. I also tweak the formula with MPK and magnesium nitrate as I see fit.
 
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Samwiseman420

Well-Known Member
Salt build up.

Doesn't really matter what you are using to feed your plants with.

The 5th week it always happens and there is shit you can do to stop it once it starts unless you use something like Athena Cleanse added to your nutrient feed. You can also make your own H2O2 to clean those roots out good even while continuing to feed.

I get the same thing at 5 weeks and have been scratching my head for years thinking it was either too much food, or not enough food, or cal/mag or bugs or the PH. They go from looking awesome and praying to dying in 1 week.

Maybe @OldMedUser can help you with this issue :eyesmoke:
 
10-46

10-46

Member
tehdansauce said:
I agree that flower nutrient profile isn’t necessarily necessary. It seems like you have to have more runoff to prevent the possibility of a lockout. I use master blend 4-18-39 combined with calcium nitrate and epsom salt. I also tweak the formula with MPK and magnesium nitrate as I see fit.
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Thanks, I really appreciate the tips. I don't use Epsom Salt, but I see many that do. I'll need to grab a bag. I also like the way you make your own cal/mag..

So here is the big question. Do you make it all the way through flower without any brown spots and yellow leaves? This is very difficult to troubleshoot as it is normal for Senescence to cause some of the leaves to yellow, or change color. Its hard to know if its senescence, a deficiency, or a combination of both.
 
10-46

10-46

Member
Samwiseman420 said:
Salt build up.

Doesn't really matter what you are using to feed your plants with.

The 5th week it always happens and there is shit you can do to stop it once it starts unless you use something like Athena Cleanse added to your nutrient feed. You can also make your own H2O2 to clean those roots out good even while continuing to feed.

I get the same thing at 5 weeks and have been scratching my head for years thinking it was either too much food, or not enough food, or cal/mag or bugs or the PH. They go from looking awesome and praying to dying in 1 week.

Maybe @OldMedUser can help you with this issue :eyesmoke:
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I'm glad to know I'm not alone, spending hours reading about mites, whiteflies, HLPvd, aphids, too much food, too little food, etc.... I've been spinning around in circles for quite some time without direction...

The good news is that I make it to harvest, I just trim the dying leaves as needed. For some reason, the deficiency doesn't make it to my buds, just barely touching the sugar leaves. I still think my harvest could be better though without all the brown spots and yellowing...
 
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Farmer's Hat said:
I think you might do better growing in coco with those synthetic liquid fertilizers. From my experience, plants grow better in soil that has dry amendments like blood meal, bone meal, etc.
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I grew in Coco Loco last grow, (final plant picture) and it worked pretty well. The only thing I didn't like about it was the drainage, it seemed to hold too much water watering to runoff....(with much added perlite too_)

My next grow will be a mixture of Happy Frog, Light Warrior, Perlite, and Rabbit manure.... I'll try to go as long as I can without nutrients in Veg to keep salts down and try the organic thing a bit. I happen to have a pet rabbit that is house trained like a cat... (uses a litter box---)
 
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bignugs68 said:
Looks like potassium deficiency for the rusty spotting on your fan leaves.
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like ! Thanks man, I was really hoping someone would say something like " That's easy ! Its a potassium deficiency ! It really sux that so many deficiencies look a like, I was hoping this was a clear case.

Potassium makes sense, its either lockout or I ain't feeding enough...
 
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