What are the implications of this?

mexiblunt

Well-Known Member
GENEVA, Sept 22 (Reuters) - An international team of scientists said on Thursday they had recorded sub-atomic particles travelling faster than light -- a finding that could overturn one of Einstein's long-accepted fundamental laws of the universe.

Antonio Ereditato, spokesman for the researchers, told Reuters that measurements taken over three years showed neutrinos pumped from CERN near Geneva to Gran Sasso in Italy had arrived 60 nanoseconds quicker than light would have done.

"We have high confidence in our results. We have checked and rechecked for anything that could have distorted our measurements but we found nothing," he said. "We now want colleagues to check them independently."

If confirmed, the discovery would undermine Albert Einstein's 1905 theory of special relativity, which says that the speed of light is a "cosmic constant" and that nothing in the universe can travel faster.

That assertion, which has withstood over a century of testing, is one of the key elements of the so-called Standard Model of physics, which attempts to describe the way the universe and everything in it works.

The totally unexpected finding emerged from research by a physicists working on an experiment dubbed OPERA run jointly by the CERN particle research centre near Geneva and the Gran Sasso Laboratory in central Italy.

A total of 15,000 beams of neutrinos -- tiny particles that pervade the cosmos -- were fired over a period of 3 years from CERN towards Gran Sasso 730 (500 miles) km away, where they were picked up by giant detectors.

Light would have covered the distance in around 2.4 thousandths of a second, but the neutrinos took 60 nanoseconds -- or 60 billionths of a second -- less than light beams would have taken.

"It is a tiny difference," said Ereditato, who also works at Berne University in Switzerland, "but conceptually it is incredibly important. The finding is so startling that, for the moment, everybody should be very prudent."

Ereditato declined to speculate on what it might mean if other physicists, who will be officially informed of the discovery at a meeting in CERN on Friday, found that OPERA's measurements were correct.

"I just don't want to think of the implications," he told Reuters. "We are scientists and work with what we know."

Much science-fiction literature is based on the idea that, if the light-speed barrier can be overcome, time travel might theoretically become possible.

The existence of the neutrino, an elementary sub-atomic particle with a tiny amount of mass created in radioactive decay or in nuclear reactions such as those in the Sun, was first confirmed in 1934, but it still mystifies researchers.

It can pass through most matter undetected, even over long distances, and without being affected. Millions pass through the human body every day, scientists say.

To reach Gran Sasso, the neutrinos pushed out from a special installation at CERN -- also home to the Large Hadron Collider probing the origins of the universe -- have to pass through water, air and rock.

The underground Italian laboratory, some 120 km (75 miles) to the south of Rome, is the largest of its type in the world for particle physics and cosmic research.

Around 750 scientists from 22 different countries work there, attracted by the possibility of staging experiments in its three massive halls, protected from cosmic rays by some 1,400 metres (4,200 feet) of rock overhead.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Einstein didn't disprove Newton. Newtonian mechanics are a boundary state (for slow speeds) of general relativity.
If this neutrino result holds, I imagine it won't turn Einstein's theory into scrap overnight. At the most dramatic, it will become a boundary case in an even larger theoretical construct.

What this result implies to me is that physics is still young. We don't know it all yet!
cheers 'neer
 

mexiblunt

Well-Known Member
Thanks I find this stuff interesting but don't know a whole lot besides the basics. Wonder if that is true that theoretically the breaking of light speed barrier opens the possibillity of time travel? I like when something like that is more probable today than it was yesterday.
 

mexiblunt

Well-Known Member
Bummer! :) I thought maybe we can guide us the whole time, baby steps. It gonna take me a few baby steps to understand universe of discourse.
 

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
When it comes to time travel, I like Niven's Law:

"If the universe of discourse permits the possibility of time travel and of changing the past, then no time machine will be invented in that universe."cheers 'neer
I would think if future man came up with time travel, we should have met some of these travelers at significant points in history. One hypothesis has been that we cannot go back prior to the invention of time travel, like if we built a gate, so of course no travel until that gate has been built.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
I would think if future man came up with time travel, we should have met some of these travelers at significant points in history. One hypothesis has been that we cannot go back prior to the invention of time travel, like if we built a gate, so of course no travel until that gate has been built.
Bingo. Man, posthumans, miscellaneous other sophonts ... I'd expect tourists andor grad students occasionally having cloaking device oopsies. We are bound to constitute a very interesting example of emerging sapience.
cn
 

mexiblunt

Well-Known Member
Would you rather? If you could only go once, just to observe, not effect (well maybe to an unexplained phenom level). Future? or past?

It would seem obvious to want to go into the future, I'm not sure which way I would go. Would you rather meet someone from the past? or from the future?

I could trip on these thoughts for a long time. Either way you go you would come back and have a huge impact on the present.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Oooo! Tough one.

On one hand, i'd like to see just how life began here on our blue pebble.

Otoh I'd like to see if we make it into the Galaxy, and if we get to meet neighbors.

(And maybe thay can fix me!)

cheers 'neer
 

Luger187

Well-Known Member
Would you rather? If you could only go once, just to observe, not effect (well maybe to an unexplained phenom level). Future? or past?

It would seem obvious to want to go into the future, I'm not sure which way I would go. Would you rather meet someone from the past? or from the future?

I could trip on these thoughts for a long time. Either way you go you would come back and have a huge impact on the present.
i think i would want to go back to the egyptian days. they seem to have had a very cool society. plus id like to know how they made the pyramids and why.

didnt they think you couldnt go passed the sound barrier back in the day?
 

Luger187

Well-Known Member
i just thought of something. what if they used these neutrinos for communication purposes? i guess its not the speed that matters, but the frequency or code of 1's and 0's, so it probably wouldnt help haha. unless we use neutrinos so we dont have to use wires... we could shoot the beam straight through the earth to get to the signals destination.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
i just thought of something. what if they used these neutrinos for communication purposes? i guess its not the speed that matters, but the frequency or code of 1's and 0's, so it probably wouldnt help haha. unless we use neutrinos so we dont have to use wires... we could shoot the beam straight through the earth to get to the signals destination.
daaaaaang ... imagine the detector! cn
 

unohu69

Well-Known Member
im just wondering if this technology can give me a time chamber, ill settle for 6x6x8. ideally it will increase time in the chamber. for instance 3 hrs outside of the chamber will be like 3 months inside....;):weed:
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
im just wondering if this technology can give me a time chamber, ill settle for 6x6x8. ideally it will increase time in the chamber. for instance 3 hrs outside of the chamber will be like 3 months inside....;):weed:
...just remember that you'll need to supply all that energy to the lights. We're talking megawatt cables here. I wonder if the whole thing will slag itself from the diatemporal insulation effect.
cn
 

Luger187

Well-Known Member
...just remember that you'll need to supply all that energy to the lights. We're talking megawatt cables here. I wonder if the whole thing will slag itself from the diatemporal insulation effect.
cn
hmm i wonder what would happen in that situation. if you had a cable running electricity from outside the box to inside the box. if time was running different inside, what would the electrons do in the cable as they entered the box? actually its AC current so they just go back n forth. but i think the frequency and all that would get fucked up. so youd have to produce the power inside the box maybe
 

NewGrowth

Well-Known Member
This is a great discovery! It indicates that our understanding of physics is elementary at best. Maybe there are new factors we will now begin to discover in regards to what we once beloved was a 'constant'.
My guess is all it really took to accomplish this was someone to believe the light-speed barrier could be broken. :mrgreen:
 

karri0n

Well-Known Member
hmm i wonder what would happen in that situation. if you had a cable running electricity from outside the box to inside the box. if time was running different inside, what would the electrons do in the cable as they entered the box? actually its AC current so they just go back n forth. but i think the frequency and all that would get fucked up. so youd have to produce the power inside the box maybe
You would need a massive amount of fuel.

Also, don't forget about feeding nutrients, water, etc. You'd essentially need to set up a fully automated system with all of the nutrients, water, fuel for electricity, etc, and you would need to thoroughly test that it's reliable over a 3 month period before putting it into use. We're talking pretty expensive here. Though, if you're got the money for a time chamber, I suppose you can probably afford some lights, timers, and agricultural supplies.
 
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