what do you guys think of these two lights?

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nonamedman420

nonamedman420

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ill put this panel up against 300 watts of hps any day, any day. or lets say, ill use 400 watts total, u use 400 total (including fan + filter) and lets see who wins? seriously. so grab a 250 and a 70, ill let u have more light. then lets see. or how about cost of these supplies? ill win again. any takers? i'm legal, ill do a shoot off or grow off, worst case we'll both learn something.... that will be worth it
 
medicinehuman

medicinehuman

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What ever you do it will be a learning experience. I first bought off of ebay and was soon disappointed at the results compared to others. I kept upgrading to CLW then Hans panel and last was DIY which I had to build my confidence up with the help of a lot of friends on this sight. Now I am a happy camper and hope the same to you. Good luck on whatever you do .
 
nomofatum

nomofatum

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Don't let the crazy LED nazi's get you upset. They have no idea what results you can get with "epi-whatever" leds. If they did they would be looking at their 10x the cost setup and shaking their heads.
 
mc130p

mc130p

Well-Known Member
nonamedman420 said:
stop recommending people use hps here, in a led forum
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Stop asking for advice if you're not going to at least consider it. What is the point of asking, when you already know? Unlike you, the people that tried to steer you away from the lights that you've set your heart on actually have experience with numerous LED fixtures...good and bad. So go ahead and continue to "know everything." Just quit being a dick and quit asking questions of the group if you're not interested in actual answers.
 
A

az2000

Well-Known Member
nomofatum said:
Don't let the crazy LED nazi's get you upset. They have no idea what results you can get with "epi-whatever" leds. If they did they would be looking at their 10x the cost setup and shaking their heads.
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I have four epi-whatever lights. I think I know. I've always said these lights will grow ok, but generate considerable heat, need about as much power (sq ft) as HID.

You're running 75w/sq ft and have said you wouldn't recommend LED (period) to anyone if they didn't do DIY. Not sure why you're encouraging him.

There's no need to debate the point. Neither you nor the OP have grown anything with your lights yet. Yet you're both very confident in what 20w/sq ft and 75w/sq ft will do. There's no debating that kind of confidence. :)

As I said: energy/heat, price, yield. Pick which you want to sacrifice. This isn't subjective like interior decorating. Those are immutable. If the OP's moveable walls are going from the 4x4 position to the 1.5x2.5 position, he'll get about the same yield per sq. ft with 320w as he got with 660w of HPS in the larger position -- with a comparable amount of heat per sq. ft.

If he's ok with that tradeoff, he'll be pretty happy with his results. We're all looking forward hearing how it works out (for both you and him).
 
nomofatum

nomofatum

Well-Known Member
az2000 said:
I have four epi-whatever lights. I think I know. I've always said these lights will grow ok, but generate considerable heat, need about as much power (sq ft) as HID.

You're running 75w/sq ft and have said you wouldn't recommend LED (period) to anyone if they didn't do DIY. Not sure why you're encouraging him.

There's no need to debate the point. Neither you nor the OP have grown anything with your lights yet. Yet you're both very confident in what 20w/sq ft and 75w/sq ft will do. There's no debating that kind of confidence. :)

As I said: energy/heat, price, yield. Pick which you want to sacrifice. This isn't subjective like interior decorating. Those are immutable. If the OP's moveable walls are going from the 4x4 position to the 1.5x2.5 position, he'll get about the same yield per sq. ft with 320w as he got with 660w of HPS in the larger position -- with a comparable amount of heat per sq. ft.

If he's ok with that tradeoff, he'll be pretty happy with his results. We're all looking forward hearing how it works out (for both you and him).
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Energy/heat vs yield vs cost, pick 2, lol, hard choice, yield and cost please.

Add in quality and it's my personal opinion that no single lighting choice will cut it. HPS = ok quality, MH = poor quality, 1 color of led = ok quality, 2 colors of led = good quality, ... IMHO, you want about 3 different colors of lighting for best quality/quantitity, (Warm [HPS, warm LED/florescent/CMH/...] for flowering, Cool for Vegetative [MH, LED/Florescent], and UVB [only florescent, no LED yet, coming 2015, current LEDs with UV are only UVA] for resin.

I'm getting great results with just cool/warm epistars, but CMH caught my fancy and I found a good deal on fixtures, so I'm going to give CMH + Cool White Epistars + Tanning bulbs (UVB.) I'm trying to beat everyone in quality with this combo. I think I have a good chance.
 
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az2000

Well-Known Member
nomofatum said:
Energy/heat vs yield vs cost, pick 2, lol, hard choice, yield and cost please.
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For your wants/needs, that's true. The OP said energy/heat and price are his wants/needs. In that case, yield suffers. He's essentially cutting his power consumption with inexpensive lighting, without concern for yield.

I think that's a valid choice. Where his solicitation for help went wrong is that he said his wants/needs were energy/heat -- no mention of cost, and willingness to sacrifice yield.

I'm sure his light will meet his expectations. It will work ok in a 1.5x3.5 (to 2x4) space. I've considered doing the same thing. My summers are brutal. I've thought about reducing my grow space to 1/4 what it is. Then the question is whether to use more efficient LEDs to perhaps keep that space a bit larger (for the heat I'm trying to reduce). I'm even considering using CMH and T5HO in the cooler months and my high-efficiency LED in the merciless summers.

As long as the OP knows what the factors are and why he chose the way he did, he'll be fine.
 
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nomofatum

nomofatum

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Fair enough, I only read the last page of him screaming cost and you guys trying to force the expensive option down his throat, lol.

Summer is too much of a bitch. Outdoor solutions are much easier then. Even if that means you just take a hike in the spring and fall and plant a bunch of 2-3 seed locations.
 
nonamedman420

nonamedman420

Well-Known Member
thanks to the few who get it.
i did not ask for alternatives. just some input along the lines of what it might or might not be lacking. so hard i guess. i wont start another thread on this forum again. ill go back to lurking. some members here help, but it seems most come for one form of entertainment or another. many trolls here, i definitely should have put my troll sensor up but figuring the holidays are when people should be kind, it irritates me to no end how much people like seeing negative reactions from people they dont know.
 
mc130p

mc130p

Well-Known Member
nonamedman420 said:
heat was my #1 and #2 concern depending on which season it is. electricity savings therefore would alternate with heat as my primary concern. due to both, mostly heat, then the cost being too high to manage it on a limited budget... my yeild was never what it could have been. ive never been happy with quality from buds grown in a too hot environment. ill take quality over quantity sometimes, not always... but i adapt it to the situation.
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If heat was your concern, then efficiency of your lights should be your top priority. The electricity that is not converted to light is converted to heat. This is why people are trying to steer you away from those lights. You might as well put a toaster in there for some deep reds too.

If my mother were here asking for advice on lights, I'd be pretty pissed if she came home with the fixtures you linked. But then again, I'd want her to get real advice, not advice that jives with her preconceived notions on the deal. Later, guy.
 
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az2000

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If you're willing to sacrifice yield for electrical/heat reduction, LED lightbulbs are an option to consider. They're more efficient than Chinese fixtures. About 100-110 lumens/watt. Instead of reducing your 4x4 space, simply reduce the height you grow (assuming you normally grow tall). About 25-30w/sq ft would do well. At a minimum you could supplement your LED fixture with some. That could let you expand your space back toward 4x4. Something to think about. Not as DIY as building a COB. No risk of burning a hole in your floor if your COB comes in contact with it. :) But, still a little geeky with the options to put it together. (Think Lego kit.).
 
nomofatum

nomofatum

Well-Known Member
If you are trying to lower costs by switching lights, know that isn't going to happen for years. The up front costs are always going to take years in electricity to pay off just for an efficiency increase. If you really need to save money you need a cooling option that uses less electricity for summer. If you can put a radiator in an attic/garage/outside and run water lines you can setup cooling for your lights that will cost a fraction of AC. Basically the same setup as water-cooling for PCs but move the heat outside.

Look at lumens per watt to see a rough guide to how efficient the lights really are, note more yellow colors read a little low compared to cooler colors like MH lights.
 
nomofatum

nomofatum

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Or look at a cool tube reflector for summer time, then take that off for winter so you have less reflector loss when heat isn't an issue.
 
nomofatum

nomofatum

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Also, if you read up and you have a higher than average IQ I expect you will come to the conclusion that you want more than 1 light type for best results. Each wavelength range has a different impact on the plants. Reds = flower, Cool/Blue = veg/stock size, UVB = resin stimulation.

Without the proper mix you create a bottleneck.
 
nonamedman420

nonamedman420

Well-Known Member
nomofatum said:
If you are trying to lower costs by switching lights, know that isn't going to happen for years. The up front costs are always going to take years in electricity to pay off just for an efficiency increase. If you really need to save money you need a cooling option that uses less electricity for summer. If you can put a radiator in an attic/garage/outside and run water lines you can setup cooling for your lights that will cost a fraction of AC. Basically the same setup as water-cooling for PCs but move the heat outside.

Look at lumens per watt to see a rough guide to how efficient the lights really are, note more yellow colors read a little low compared to cooler colors like MH lights.
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renting an apartment, trying to not stand out, my landlord already was trying to get an electrician in here jjjjust to be nosy, ended when my meter stopped spinning like a top lol
 
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