What I think I learned from over watering and flushing in soil.

I never had late flowering stamen (bananas) when growing until my last three grows. Last 3 grows I experimented with watering in heavier doses where I would get 10-20% runoff and also I flushed 2 or 3 weeks before harvest. In the past I always watered to where runoff meant a couple of drops of water and I almost never flushed except a few times in the past when I thought I had a salt build up.
Luckily this grow I was saved at 3 weeks into flowering and went back to my old watering ways with a few adjustments. I'm at 8 weeks into flowering with 2 or 3 weeks to go. They don't look pretty but they are finishing great with awesome crystals.

Using to much water when watering in 3 gallon pots with soil and achieving a 10-20% runoff caused my soil PH to drop to low and caused a calcium lock out that began showing up at about 2 weeks into flowering. The previous two grows I thought it was a calcium deficiency and my plants finished poorly.

In the past I almost never had late flowering bananas. The last 3 grows when I flushed and watered to achieve run off I had a bad case of late flower bananas show up around the 6th or 7 week of flowering.

I had a serious problem with early hermie balls also this grow. I'm already looking forward to my next grow where My plants won't be suffering the way they did in the early stages. The best lesson is at three weeks into flowering they did not look pretty but they recovered and are finishing in great form. I already have been testing their potency. Cut off a bud, toaster oven for 2 hours at 150 degrees pop a few hits in the bong and smile, they are finishing fine When you like what you smoke 2 hours after cutting off the bud you know your gonna like it after it finishes flowering in 2 weeks and then cures for several more

i've never heard of getting that kind of run off regularly in soil, thats more of a coco thing, and even then, i only try to get run off every third or fourth watering. i'd say if you get a good run off once about half way through veg then another about the third week of flower, that would be plenty to keep salts from building up in soil. if its not, you're using too much nutes

Roger A. Shrubber said:

i've never heard of getting that kind of run off regularly in soil, thats more of a coco thing, and even then, i only try to get run off every third or fourth watering. i'd say if you get a good run off once about half way through veg then another about the third week of flower, that would be plenty to keep salts from building up in soil. if its not, you're using too much nutes

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Yea, that was just some bad information I picked up over the last couple of years and finally corrected it.

I water to about 20% runoff every time except for seedlings in cups. Those I water very carefully until they have a root ball. I use Ocean Forest for all stages.

The key is to wait until the medium dries out until the pot is alarmingly light. I wait a day longer than I used to think they needed water and I still have only ever seen lower fan leaves droop a little.

Over watering is in the frequency of watering not the amount at the time. The passing of water through the pot and out brings much needed oxygen to the roots and washes away excess salts and residue. I remove it right away for best results.

Super soil can be a bit different as continued runoff will likely wash some elements away. But I feed bottled nutes in flower. Although I have never seen a deficiency on a veg plant from doing it. Only a happy invigorated plant.

Hey all,
One point of view, measuring runoff doesn't indicate much. If the soil was really dry when you watered, it could channel down rather quickly without absorbing, so you would observe heavy runoff without conditioning the soil much.

As for late flowering hermaphrodites, that's strictly genetics at work. Don't kid yourself, it's not something you caused. You mentioned the last three grows this was happening...are you cloning the same phenos? Get rid of them. Stable hybrids can take a walloping, can fry to shit, tip over and practically die and STILL not hermaphrodite.

What seeds are you growing?

I forgot to mention and was reminded by the above post that I scratch the soils surface when it crusts up to break it up a bit and allow the water to penetrate evenly. I also always pour a cup or two of plain water in needed plants to re wet the soil and roots before feeding.

And monitoring EC and even ph in runoff is helpful if you are monitoring trends. You can read the salt buildup over time or dropping ph trends. And if you have to flush you can have a target.

And in my experience stamen can show up from nutrient stress. Particularly under feeding or lock up issues. They sense impending death and try to propogate. In my garden and I grow diesel and Thai crosses which are both known for male flowers showing up at week 5 and 10. I only ever see stamen along with nutrient issues. When they are happy rarely see one.

I hope this all helps.

Punk said:

Hey all,
One point of view, measuring runoff doesn't indicate much. If the soil was really dry when you watered, it could channel down rather quickly without absorbing, so you would observe heavy runoff without conditioning the soil much.

As for late flowering hermaphrodites, that's strictly genetics at work. Don't kid yourself, it's not something you caused. You mentioned the last three grows this was happening...are you cloning the same phenos? Get rid of them. Stable hybrids can take a walloping, can fry to shit, tip over and practically die and STILL not hermaphrodite.

What seeds are you growing?

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They are my own seeds and the genetics are weak and probably unstable, the phenos are all over the place, they have had early flowering balls on a small manageable scale in the past but they are from genetics that have never or rarely given me a late flowering hermie. I'm not sold yet on late flowering hermies being strictly genetic because I've never had a problem with them before, only on the two grows I watered as described above.

I hear that a lot, that late flowering hermies are strictly genetic, that was why I wanted to share my experience. I still feel they were created in the other two grows from my having a low soil ph. I'm also wondering if the heavy watering caused nutrients to be leached out of the soil and also stressed the plants.

Here is the thread from 5 weeks ago when we resolved my problem. It starts out with a humidity question and eventually moved towards what I believe was my real problem.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/lights-out-high-humidity-calcium-deficiency-question.925094/

might be that the gene is there, but not dominant. the stress of overwatering, and the resulting nutrient imbalance, may have triggered the herm gene, if one wasn't there, there other might not be enough to cause a problem by itself

Roger A. Shrubber said:

might be that the gene is there, but not dominant. the stress of overwatering, and the resulting nutrient imbalance, may have triggered the herm gene, if one wasn't there, there other might not be enough to cause a problem by itself

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For sure, there could be some causality triggering it, but the gene is either there or it's not. It takes generations of breeding to eliminate it. When you're working with a hybrid, you're basically starting from scratch, breeding-wise.

Overwatering problems really depends on your medium/environment.

A humid room using soil makes it pretty damn easy to overwater.
A dry room using coco would make it hard to overwater ect.. Just keep it in mind if you switch something up.

Also, the whole hermie problem seems to be mainly linked but not limited to genetics. Some plants are more prone to hermie during stress then others.. Sometimes all it takes is a few deficiencies in early flower to bring out the nanners. When i run strains im not familiar with ill baby them in flower